Cheshire Steve

Thanks, I have been wondering what to do with the photos. I thought about uploading some of them to Wikimedia Commons as it seems there is a way to make them free for public use yet at least keep my father's name on them as copyright owner for posterity. There is a large field for description on there so its one way to get them on record. Posting them on here allows me to tap into the local expertise to fill in a lot of the gaps too, and I have had some useful observations. Which RAF Museum does this guy work at? I am not too far from Cosford and have wondered about going down there to pick their brains about Syko cipher devices. I e-mailed the RAF Museum about the case I found that held my father's Syko cipher device and it was 6 weeks before I got a 2 sentence reply from the London museum, so I still wondering about various aspects, like how many were issued. Steve

Actually I think the answer is there in the photos, the huge inlet under the engine, which is not present on other photos of Hurricanes that I have seen in other theatres of war. I don't know whether this is for extra cooling, or large dust filters for the engine air inlets, but it must be a modification for desert use, and I think that means its a Mk IIB Trop, as opposed to a regular Mk IIB.

Having looked up some info on Hurricanes it says there was a specific "Mk IIB Trop" for North Africa. So I assume that is what features in the photos, but don't know how you would tell. Steve

Thanks, that link provides an interesting record of what went on, though if I had being flying in central Africa and come across the giant cacti referred to, then I would think I was seriously lost (no cacti in Africa). Part of the text sounds like an accurate description of the work of the RSUs working in the Western Desert recovering planes that didn't make it back from raids. I assume they did have to recover some being ferried up, but sounds a bit like the two activities have got a bit confused. However very interesting stuff, I had never seen any details of that ferry route. Steve

Are those pods under the wings the extended range fuel tanks to get them there, and from where? Maybe from where you said but with intermediate stops. I don't know the range of a hurricane. Steve

A few more photos from my fathers collection. Newly arrived hurricanes in North Africa in 1942 or 43 arrived with rotting fabric, so they had to be stripped back to the skeleton and re-covered. I think this was something to do with them being assembled and delivered right through tropical Africa. I don't know if these photos are of a single plane or several, and I can see different roundels, but that could be before and after. I am sure the ground crew were none too pleased to have to do this on new planes on top of all their other duties. It looks like hot work - and sitting on the tail plane while the engine is run up looks like it might sting a bit. If anyone can tell me about the aircraft delivery routing, and the dates this problem occurred that would be handy, I might even be able to tie it in to a specifix location/unit.

Although this has digressed from RSU to ASR - we remain with the RAF in the Middle East in 1943, and I have a little bit more info so will tack it on rather than start a new thread. Apart from comments that my father made about ASR 2699 being used as transport for a raid in Nov/Dec 1943 (which he said he thought was somewhere near Yugoslavia), he also said he thought the boat's unusual use for ferrying VIPs at high speed was under orders from Aden. I have found a note in the book that 2699's assignments were : DIS 4/43 Calshot, Algiers, Italy, 254ME, 207ASRME, Algiers, Piraves Struck Off 3/48 Decoding this using other entries suggests "254ME" is 254 ASR unit operating out of Algiers and in Western Med - other ASR vessels there included 188, 2546, 2547, 2580, 2581, 2582, 2593, 2595, 2596, 2597, 2600, 2601, 2605. 207 ASRME is 207 ASR Middle East which was headquartered in Aden, although boat 2699 was based in Haifa. Others in 207 include 159 and 2701, but probably several other boats listed as being at Alexandria. There is a file in the National Archives for which the on-line index says it became 207 Air Sea Rescue Marine Craft Unit (ASRMCU), Alexandria, in January 1944. So my father's recollections suggest 2699 was in 207 ASR unit by Nov 1943, and he was right in that it was operating under orders from Aden. The National Archive is a bit far for me to trek (200 miles), but I wonder if the records of 207 ASR unit include information on the up-arming from Brownings to Oerlikons or the night raid, which he told me included the capture of a German officer. Steve

I have been looking up some info on SBS and there was a raid in Nov 1943 in Simi, which could have involved my fathers ASR as transport (2699) and explain his recollections. Though can't find much in the way of transport details, just info on the raid itself. I would have thought a high speed launch disguised as a German boat would be very sensible for their sort of raiding tactics. However I am not sure if there were many (or any) E-boats in the Med, but there must have been some equivalents. The Italian Navy had something very similar, and I think some of them went to German forces when Italy pulled out.

No need to be sorry, its all part of the story, and who knows who might notice it here and add another piece of the jigsaw. Its always better that these stories are shared than being lost. Steve

Sorry to hear your father isn't around anymore, there aren't many left. You have however given me a key-word 'Dodecanese' which has thrown up some useful information. The Special Boat Squadron was apparently based in Haifa from April 1943 and trained there, and is know to have been engaged in the Dodecanese campaign in spring 1944. My father's Air Sea Rescue boat was also based in Haifa and he was on it in Nov and Dec 1943. It seemed to have an unusual role transporting people around the med in complete secrecy, usually the crew didn't know who was on baord. So if my father was right and it was used to ferry some commandos to an island who nabbed someone and then had to make a quick exit, then prime candidates are the SBS using it to carry out some sort of kidnapping on the Dodecanese. I will have to see if there are SBS records for late 1943. Steve

Sorry - meant late 1943, not late 1942.

I am curious to know when this was, as my father said they went on one mission to drop off some commandos at night, and they waited in darkness, and pretty soon the commandos came back with a captive and had to take off quick sharpish under fire. He said he thought it was somewhere near Yugoslavia. This was on ASR 2699 in late 1942. It doesn't seem to have been on normal ASR duties while he was on it. He said he thought it was under orders direct from Aden. 2699 was one of the Hants & Dorset type, with 3 Napier Lion engines. My father had trained on the Napier Lions at Blackpool when he joined the RAF. He said they were entertaining to start from cold as the choke was the engineer with two things like table tennis rackets, but he had to be a bit nimble as there were 3 inlets per engine. Apparently it was fairly warm and noisy in the engine compartment, with the only place to perch being the companion way ladder. I would love a chance to experience it - obviously without the downside of war.

Thanks for that, it was the one vehicle left unidentified from my original post. I am a bit confused by the GMC truck description as it seems to have 10 wheels, but now I have looked up similar trucks it looks like a GMC CCKW or Jimmy, which is described as a 6x6. I didn't recognise the Chevy. I don't know how the desert RSU teams were made up, but I think for recovery work in the desert the team came from a single outfit, though RSU members could be detached all over the Desert Air Force according to needs, and my father came back with RAAF and SAAF cap badges as well as his own. He also worked on a base with Polish pilots presumably in late 42 to early 43 when he was with the DAF. He said they were very popular with the ground crew because their training included a mechanical understanding of the aircraft, plus he said they really hated the Germans.

The story of his trip out to the Middle East was also a fascinating one, and from his diary I was able to fill in some gaps on Wikipedia about the itinerary of the troop ship Aquitania. I have some non-vehicle photos as well, including one of miles of Italian troops having surrendered and being marched along a road presumably in North Africa. Steve

My father never really spoke about the war until dementia robbed him of all his recent memories. Now its about all he can remember. He told me about one of the RSU sorties where they were accompanied by the LRDG. I wish I had recorded that conversation as he told me his view of how somebody (who's name escapes me) formed them from various rebellious people who were in the pokey for insubordination and other misdemeanors. If they hated the Germans and wanted to fight then that was their ticket out into the LRDG (this according to my father. I don't want to upset anyone, just relating what he told me). He said that as an escort for the RSU they left a lot to be desired, as the RSU tried to keep a very low profile. But the LRDG were prone to charging off into the night and attacking some target or other and coming back in the morning. I asked if they used Jeeps, and he said they favoured Chevrolet trucks. He also said there was an Australian RSU unit, and they were notorious for taking beer in the containers that should have had water for the engines. The engines had to have recycled beer. Of course I don't know if he really knew that to be true, or whether it was one of the stories told back at camp and he believed it. Steve

Fascinating stuff. I will have to look and see if I can spot some more numbers for you to decode. You mentioned Heliopolis, my father was there from Jul 1944 to Jan 45, and Apr 45 to Jan 46 (he was in Athens in the interim). The entries in his diary simply say 168MU 6 Flight, so no mention of a squadron. The only actual squadrons mentioned in his notes are 74 squadron, Nicosia, June 43 to Nov 43, and 451 Squadron RAAF at El Gamill, March-May 1944, however the RSU may have wandered far and wide, and in Nov 42 to June 43, it just says 58RSU Det D.A.F., though I think that was mainly working from Mersa Matruh. Here's a rather broken German plane, which could be the one my father described them finding in the desert and spending ages checking it for booby traps, eventually discovering (by virtue of it going off) that it had one in the fuselage triggered by the rudder controls. It certainly doesn't look crashed, and pretty unlikely its a direct shell strike. I am beginning to think that he may have had a friend who developed the photos and that way was able to get prints from some negatives he didn't create himself. So for example a shot of an interesting plane which was taken at some other time. He definitely was taking the RSU recovery photos, but I suspect the photos he has of the Italian fleet in Alexandria were taken by someone else, and may even be official photos and he was able to get a print off the negatives for his collection. Steve

Now that is confusing as my father didn't get out to the Middle East until July 1942. How about FL897 ? Or how about this one which I think is BN358.

I don't know if the censor got to see these, my father was using a camera recovered from a reconnaissance plane, and I have no idea where he got the film developed. I remember him telling me that he was breaking the rules by taking a photo of his air sea rescue boat. I think the issue is that the numbers are simply not very distinct in black and white photos. As you will see from these, which I think are K6143 (or maybe KC143) and FL897. If these numbers translate into anything then be very interested to know.

Here's a couple of German planes for you ..

Whats this one - looks like it has a greenhouse on its back?

I've got lots of photos, I don't know what half the aircraft are and its difficult to see any detailed numbers. In fact the captured enemy aircraft seem to be more clearly marked. How are you on battleships? I might launch another thread on the various battleship photos I have, which I think he told me were the remains of the Italian Navy. I love these bombers - hard to imagine they were still in use in 1942/43.

This might be the one that was flown out - otherwise I can't imagine why he would have kept such a poor photograph in his collection. I wonder if this is this the same type as the mystery plane on the trailer?

I don't have any definite ability to tie the before and after photos together, so could easily be something else. I have shots of this being dismantled so thought this might be it. I have photos of an engine being craned off a Dakota, so maybe it wasn't a Dakota they flew out. This is the USAF Dakota they rebuilt and restored to RAF service.

I think you will find it is a Wellington, I have several pictures of it being dismantled. There are 7 people in one of the photos of it loaded on the Queen Mary - I don't know how many in a RSU team. I wonder how long it took them to dismantle a bomber and load it in the desert? My father told me of one aircraft where they dug pits, lowered the undercarriage, and towed it out, they then cut the bent ends off the props balancing as best they could and fetched a pilot to fly it home. I think that was the dakota they rescued. The pilot said there was no way the props would be sufficiently in balance and insisted on one of the RSU LACs going back with him.

Have to agree, though as the OP I am not too concerned as its been an interesting digression. I have been looking up Bedford military vehicles and I see there was a wireless version of the 15cwt Bedford MW (the MWR), and my father said he was wireless operator in the RSU and the wireless vehicle was a 15cwt. We have already identified a CMP 15cwt from one of his photos in a separate thread, but as they were using Bedford OXC tractors, then maybe it would have made sense to have Bedford 15cwt as the radio wagon just due to less spare parts needing to be carried. I'll leave the aircraft photos for another day. Its the RSU operations in the Western Desert that I am most interested in at the moment. Steve