ted angus

I was trawling last night for pictures of QL tankers found loads of pictures of WW2 with white painted rear diffs and trailers with a square/retangular white plate on the rear axle. So this form of safety /driving aid certainly pre dates all Land Rovers.

TED

Just about finished my tractors some paint touching up to do, the camera is great for seeing all the bits I have missed that my old eyes can no longer see !!

TED

In the pictures I have seen most carried the trailer spare as per the kit, sometimes the spare or spares were rolled into the trailer and lashed to the lattice at a convenient point. I am mounting the trailer spare and lashing the tractor spare. NOT a criticism so please don't take offence but the tailboards inner surface were frequently skinned with either steel sheet or marine ply. This was so the surface became sacrifical when lumps were dragged or tirfor winched up the ramp. an option for your second trailer ?.

I have just finished making the egg boxes and posts for mine to support the wings, this method is still used today. keep up the good work fantastic.

TED

Ojays I think this is the place ??????, long time ago since I was there september 1970-73 and may june july 1974 ---- have I got the right location ?

there were virtually no hotels in Larnac then !! There were NONE in Paphos . Famagusta was the main holiday resort. I used to travel the route from Akrotiri via Dhekelia as an armed escort on convoys from the Docks. The best 3 years of my life !

TED

On another thread I posted pictures of Green Goddesses that had been converted to gun tractors by the Greek Cypriot National Guard in May 1972 this is the "Vehicle Storage facility" !!! where I witnessed it.

Here are the AEC refuellers taken early May 1972, my wife remembers the date; she was 8 months pregnant and I forgot I had left her in the car . Note the Austin K5 minus door to the left of the AECs

TED

I have some old workshop tech books I am sure they were colour code pre war if that is the case then I doubt civvy bottles would have been very likely to have remained in those colours.

Glad your over the flu; that is a good question certainly hydrogen cylinders on the balloon units became toned down with an earthy type colour possibly KG3 and later SCC2 and coloured bands of red and silver remained along with stencilling to ID contents. RAF Fire trucks that had CO2 cylinders mounted on the sides seem to have similar treatment. I think finding pictures of British mobile workshops might show up different tones. Is this info for your QM project never seen cylinders in any pictures I have come accross

TED

Simon don't be misled although the EMER quoted by Clive is circa 1960 the requirement is much earlier as I said RLs were leaving the factory in 1953 fitted with the white disc.

The problem we have dating the introduction of requirements such as the one we are discussing here, is that most info is initially promulgated down to user levels by other means in the first instance. this may be a phone call if applicability is not widespread, a signal(telex) a directing letter, ACI, AMO DCI etc.

A classic example was Gulf War 1 painting vehicles and equipment pre embarkation. Units identified as being required to outload vehicles from the UK or RAF Germany in the early phases, received a warning order signal, this gave no detail but merely warned that within X hours a comprehensive immediate signal was being issued detailing the colours , how to obtain stock and /or how to mix prior to stock of the correct colour becoming availible. I recall the activate signal was 3 feet long coming off the teleprinter . So now 20 years later if you go to the RAF museum or TNA Kew you will not find anything as they do not keep correspondence of this type. The requirements were ultimately included in the Air Publication that covers painting of aircraft vehicles and ground equipment, but when the colour was later changed the Air Publication was amended and all reference to the original colour deleted. So the audit trail is lost. It is for this reason that it is proving impossible to tie down the early war detail on the colours of RAF MT. The earliest AMO giving actual colours is Aug 1941, but a june 1941 AMO from a different series has now surfaced which calls for camouflage finishes without giving actual colours. Letters dated 1938 onwards at the TNA indicate much work was being done , but only give a few pieces of the jigsaw. Period photographs show most RAF MT in Cam by early 1940, certainly the MT convoy of 4 sqn that left Odiham in Sept 1939 for France was in a cam finish,

But in the absence of preceding AMOs etc, the date of Aug 1941 is widely published as the date the RAF went totally camouflaged where in fact all the evidence is it was much earlier.

I have digressed but I have tried to give an example of how the introduction of a requirement is often a date widely divorced from date of the avaible formal surviving document.

TED

and look slightly above and to each side of the Austin badge ?/

TED

In 1953 Bedford RLs were leaving the production line with the 9" white disc and convoy light fitted.

During Op Burberry Nov 77/Jan78 we were living in the TA centre at Anlaby Rd in Hull. All their Landies had the front of the front diff painted white, onto which was stencilled the oil type in the Diff. i.e. OEP 220.

TED

Noel there are several bits of the parade on PATHE but some are incorrectly labeled. I have an original copy of the victory celebrations programme; the running order and types of vehicles is not 100% in accordance with the programme. I believe the IWM has an album of vehicle stills from the parade ? So0me cracking shots Les !1

TEd

A bit like me Alan !!!

Airfix magazine guide no27 of 1978 modelling RAF vehickes by Gerald Scarborough has drawings for the 3 ton version per the kit, however in my own kit collection I have an altered trailer which I think was from an article in Airfix Mag just after kit issued whereby the wheels are moved to the rear corners of the trailer and the lattice let into the cut area and I believe that this was for the 5ton version.

I have just been looking at the Guide No 27 The Airfix kit appears to be based on the Newark example, Its the only 3 ton version I have seen with the front end contoured the same as the 5 ton. Plus although it has the lattice to the same dimensions as other 3 ton versions I have seen certain diagnal braces are missing. I wonder if at some stage Tasker changed the design of the front end of the 3 ton--- if they did then we have an original pattern 3ton and a later pattern/ If this is the case for future projects it is easier to do a late version by simply cutting away a small number of diagnals, rather go thru the fafff of rebuilding the front end ??

Any piccies Alan of your version ???

TED

I would guess all the similar size medium bombers from the US would have a similar "breakdown " Havoc, Marauder, Invader, mitchell, Boston etc etc but I am not a plane expert. regardless you are doing a great job I think the 8 hours were well spent doing the exhausts . Keep up the good work.

Rewgards TED

Hi Ian, not only is the setup similar compare the part of plane that is in both views. I believe Jessie the Jeep said the earlier pic is a B-26 Invader, the one I found is a B-25 Mitchell; extremely similar If he hasn't already posted the shot I put on he can hopefully get a better idea of all the trestles etc. below is a link to another forum where he is detailing work on his project -- facinating

regards TED

http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=200882

Last night I found this picture on the net, a fairly decent shot of the tractor as I know light is a real problem at Hendon museum, but it was the picture board in front of the vehicle that caught my eye. Zooming in I saw great similarities between the detail of your aircraft and this one which is a B-25 Mitchell. I played around with the image and although i am far from being any sort of techno person I managed to get a half decent picture of the loaded QM. I don't know if you have seen this before but in case you haven't I thought you and other members may be interested. It gives a bit more sight of the trestles etc.

Regards

TED

I don't blame you !! i love scratch building but this Bedford tractor is fighting me all the way and it has nearly seen the inside of the bin more than once

regards

TED

Firstly here are the data sheets for the OX have been going by the vehicle wheelbase, the width and size of wheels, I previously built one and just looking at it told all, at the time the kit came out there were dozens of letters in the hobby magazines about the poor job airfix had made of the kit, It almost equaled the compliants about with the emergency set featuring a fire truck that was firstly a post war design and secondly had never served with the RAF anyway. Sorry I digress !

With a width of a fraction under 6ft 8inches at 00 -1/76 it should be 27mm, in 1/72 it would be even larger but the kit is only 25.5mm.

with a wheelbase of 9ft 3 inches it should be 37mm but the kit is only 36, I have stuck an airfix wheel against one I know is spot on for a 10.50x16 I have also tried to show the airfix side piece against the BW .

I still havent got the cab clearance right over the front wheels but I'll get there i hope.

regards TED

I've been working on the diorama for about a month now, and while I haven't started on the Queen Mary's yet, progress has been made on the GMC and A-26 Invader. The crane on the 353 is scratch built, with one of Lynne's silver necklaces for the lifting chains ( yes she knows! ). It was the only chain I could find that was fine enough. The chains and hook still need painting.

 

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HI Been following your great project on another forum with great interest as I am doing the Hurri which I previously posted a picture of. it wasn't normal for a team on an aircraft this size to have 2 cranes, a lifting frame would have been employed connected to predetermined attachment points, see the attached where a lump of Lanc is being hoisted..by changing the point at which the strops are connected to the frame and changing strop lengths these frames were a great universal bit of kit; frames of that nature are still in use today indeed the last practise Tornado lift we did before I got the bullet used a very similar frame. Are you taking the wing outers off ? replace your second crane by a 3rd QM you would get the front fuselage and the wing outers onto/into a 3rd trailer. The QM had terrible difficulty navigating the roads, so aircraft "breakdown" was always with a view to minimising front and rear overhang. Don't forget as part of the RAF input there would be a personal kit/tool and lifting tackle tender, normaly a 3 ton 4x2 Dodge Kew, A Fordson 7v or Canadian RHD Chevrolet 1543 3 ton 4x2 GS. I found a breakdown diagram of a Lanc on a site I could post a copy for your next project ???? I have given my QM a dusting from a Tamiya aerosol as an undercoat, still to make a jig to carry the prop at the front end of the QM bed and some egg boxes to secure the wings into the trailer.

Re the Bedford Tractor units in the Kit, they are way too small they are even smaller than 1/87 by my calculations, I am using a Commer from MMS to tow my flatbed. and hacking around a BW bedford OY to create a Bedford OX tractor-- although it may end up in the bin its fighting me every inch of the way and I might get a second Commer. For the best part of the war Commers were more common on the R&SUs that the Bedford. keep up the good work its giving me some greatly needed inspiration as I look out at our wonderful Scottish weather.

Regards

TED

Noel, does make the point it had Starter painted on the side ; his point being it is indeed a Commer preheater van . The vehicle mounted starter has never been an RAF piece of kit, always trailer mounted starting with the 1930s trolley acc through to the current 90KwCummins powered GPU sets for AWACS.

The best guess is that this heater van has been locally modified to utilise its on board dynamo for aircraft starting. The pre heater kit was basically a engine driving a fan which passed air through a set of tubes around which was a combustion chamber, The engine drove a fairly meaty dynamo system to produce the volts for the ignition for both the combustion chamber and the engine

TED

Tim have sent you a PM

TED

All the ones I saw were light stone I think the cam was thrown on just before the civil war

TED

here we are I knew I had one !! note the rear body is different to the other one I posted.

Some time ago I promised scans of the circa 1970 10 ton model;

It came in 3 versions: one Long and two different width short wheelbase. both wheelbases are given on the attached drawing. The overall lengths were the same.

The short wheelbase came in 2 overall widths 9ft 6 inch and 8ft 6 inch, this info is from the RAF Data book.

I have also started work on my repair and salvage convoy. I am transporting a relatively undamaged Hurricane from Duxford. The fuselage is being transported on a 33ft long high loading trailer which will be dragged by a Commer. The Hurricane sits on a standard wooden cradle ( which stilll needs weathering. )

The wings will sit along with main wheels and undercart legs in a 3 ton QM. utilising the airfix kit I have discarded the head and scratch built one, as the head on the 3 ton attached to the main part of the trailer slightly inboard. also front and back I have opened up the solid ends and lattice braces will be put in place once the milliput on the head is cured. i may drag the QM with another Commer or scratch build a Bedford OX the Airfix one is way too small only about 1/87 scale !!

In DSCF0296 is a comparison of the 5 ton type head as per the kit and "my take" on the 3 ton version which still requires some detail and lattice additions to the front of the side frameworks.

TED

Hanno yes i will post if i find anymore, trouble is I have thousands of piccies but no filing system !!!!

i prefer muck and grease !!!

regards TED