ruxy

3 hours ago, MatchFuzee said:

Later "Flit gun" became a generic name for handpumped incecticide dispensers.

I have a book about Rockefeller & Standard Oil  -  he had to split it up  ,  one part became Standard Oil of New Jersey ,  this company had links with  I.G.  Farben well before WW2  .  SONJ  got into trouble trading with Germany when they should have stopped  ,  years since I read it  IIRC  they gave technology about production of synthetic petrol  , shipped tanker loads of oil to Spain (supposedly for Spain but much was sent rail tanker to Germany) ,  still shared technology of Buna  (synthetic rubber) production.  It's hard to say where the original FLIT was developed & later enhanced - because of the chemical interests between  Exxon  / Esso  + I.G.  Farben were in reality never broken.

If you read the book   LAST STOP AUSCHWITZ  :  My story of survival within the camp.  By  Eddy de Wind  (  a Nederlander Jew)  -  he does state that they used the product  FLIT  !

27 minutes ago, John F said:

DDT was used as an insecticide by the allies from around mid-1942, and it was released as an agricultural pesticide after the war... maybe a local farmer bought a war surplus decontamination trailer to spray his crops?

I.G. Farben  - had slightly different spray  ,  ISTR the word  FLIT  (as Flit Gun)  was one of their trade names.

The possibility radioactve substances was well known to British , German , Polish + other allies well before WW2  ,  the problem for the Germans & some allies was that each side believed the opposition was further advanced to a explosive weapon .  Radio-active substance were available from mainly research labs. 

There was a time when 'they' believed it would take a tonne of enriched uranium / plutonium - they were pondering how to prevent a 'neutral' ship entering a British port with such a bomb , then a single Oz @ B'ham University   and a few London & Cambridge prof.  British / + middle-Euro Jews determined a aerial bomb was possible with anly abt 1 kg. of nuclear fuel.

It is possible that a two wheel trailer was used for small scale parasites such as bed-bugs , on bedding / uniforms etc.   AFAIK  the Germans & British used larger scale decontamination using superheated steam & chemicals during WW2  ,  during WW1  I believe it was only a  steam low-pressure generator  used, (not wet).

5 days later ,  you have not returned  ?   I TRIED.   - another dawn another day.

You came here to HMVF  following the same query on a Facebook LR Group.   You told me I was wrong - but all the time I knew I was right.  You showed a photograph on Facebook of your panel - you did not show it here.  The fact is - that panel showing the new fuel gauge you fitted is cluster top RH corner ,  you have a manual brake TEST switch - no doubt whatsoever , only used on S3  early FFR's + 12 volt .  You said your gauge was LATE  (you listened to duff info. not to self).  However a late fuel level gauge is mounted on the group cluster at 6 o'clock. 

btw  -   The Lightweight wiring diagrams on the web site  for Land Rover Lightweight , coloured for the benefit by all by the web site owner Dave McCarthy ,  IIRC an accountant but good with IT.   I set him off with some diagrams for 12 volt/FFR  Rover 1 + S3  LWT  that I did for myself  circa.  1975   .   I spent 3 years as a ED with  34N Sig. Reg. (V)  , in fact I was among the first uncrating Larkspur & fitting to the URS. So have worked on LWT for 50+ years  (although I am  'mechanical'  I did do electrical to ONC  .   I can tell you that all (many) who have problems with accuracy of LWT fuel gauge / RH & LH tap change switches / tank sender units - that it is all about Ohms LAW.  

Many muppets will not listen ,   Dave McCarthy ploughed ahead quick (he owns the website)  , using the templates I had given , he did not ask me to proof read them, there are minor errors (that I am aware of) - I only use them to get to the area needed from time to time.

Early FFR circuit - EARLY  !    after fuse 7 to 8  ,  (Speedo head & Instrument cluster illumination is on a different area)  ,  you have only  THREE  (3 qy.)  resistance(s)   two sender units (variable) and the Instrument (which is moving iron , so voltage is not important)  .   Late FFR circuit  - LATE  !   (take it as all progressions to transistorized regulator)  after fuse 7 to 8  - that area is different because you have 4 qty. extra resistances    Moving Iron Water & Oil temperature gauges - water & oil Transmitters  (these are thermister (semi-conductor)  variable resistances.    The extra resistances are because the EARLY Water & Oil gaiges were Bourdon operation (mechanical)  .

In the case of the  VERY  LATE  12 volt LWT  -  the oil cooler was no longer fitted ,  the cluster only has two instruments - Fuel level and water temp.  The fuel level gauge is no longer at top RH , it is same as FFR - at 6 o'clock,  the Water temp gauge is no longer Bourdon from the oil cooler line  brass pocket.  The gauge position for oil is redundant (it is black blanked) , you only get a oil temp warning lamp - this now from a TT  (temperature transmitter) thermister that is sump mounted.  The 12 Volt  LWT  now uses the same tank Fuel Level 'senders' as the FFR (late)  and same moving Iron gauge as the FFR (late) cluster instrument.  The 12 volt original  gauge (bi-metal) with it's primitive vibrating type  10 volt output  bi-metal voltage stabilizer  - was tere-on deleted.

fwiw   -   many years before you could go to a chandler,ironmonger or B&Q  for a gallon can of  Cuprinol / Rentokill 5 star or whatever  -  the traditional boatyard wood preserver used for 'holding' prior to application of varnish or paint was quite simply  -  paraffin mixed with linseed oil  (boiled I think).  I can tell you that Redwood (let's say Scotch Pine , but originatning from Scandinavia & Russia + some .  Baltic)  graded as 'unsorted'   (fourths)  is one of the best for standing up against the British climate ,  far better than most hardwoods (broad - leaf) .  In fact some hardwoods used for carver/clinker construction were OK in fresh-water - BUT only for several weeks between dragging ashore to dry out.  Sea-water (brine)  is used as a cheap preservative on timber imported for pallets , Atlantic pine grown in portugal , it quickly grows to a good SHORT height , but has a good dia.

On 3/9/2023 at 3:26 PM, 31770 said:

Thanks, Yes, it’s an unusual find.. I suppose it could be off a trailer bought by a farmer after the military had finished with it . I’m keeping my fingers crossed for an Urn full of coins 👍 Regards, Dave.

 

It's most strange  -  12 days later and nobody on the Forum has been able to turn out a photograph.  WW2  decontamination trailer on a single axle  ?     Decontamination of what  ?

Was it somethng like a pair of single PortaLoo  with shower spray heads ,  or a basic Jeep style trailer or larger  Ben Hur  ??   possibly just with pumps , hoses & nozzel  ,  possibly a  A.F.S.  pump trailer for wash-down of large area.

Of course there always was a threat (lots of unknowns)  of a German V2 rocket part loaded with radioactive material  or Sarin/Tabun chemical agents -  were these trailers in preparation of such an occurance.   Possibly you have a plate for WW2  top-secret hardware that has never surfaced  ?

41 minutes ago, 7VHU said:

An interesting parallel with coal and heritage railways, technically easier and safer to store coal but believe the issue will be with a diminishing supply chain. Back to the local chemist for 2 gallon tin(s).

Actually I gleaned much info. from a book published abt.  it concerned the LNER  and there was much info. about Bankfoot Works @ Crook .  The author was a Chemist and big fan of the SD&LU  (as I was it ran and still am because my early years  to 21 , I lived alongside).  The author lived at both  Crook and Barnard Castle - he does not actually state but I presume  he worked at both Bankside and Glaxo.  I have another book that is more concerned about WW2  , and reveals much new to me , I suppose much was secret at the time & secret or forgotten since.  I have been to the top of the crackers at Seal Sands , was given a good book about Carless Capel & Leonard when I was once at their cracker at Cargo Fleet.  Spent lots of time at ICI Wilton & Billingham inc. Aromatics and what was called the Oil Works - unfortunately I could not quiz too much & these places are a nightmare.

HCVA  -  is the one to watch  ,  apparently the petrol we need is cheaper and easier to manufacture that the stuff for 'race-days'.

https://www.hcva.co.uk/247/hcva-news/fuelling-the-future-motive-power-and-connectivity

In the 1930's  the Walker empire / Distillers Co. were involved with alcohol that were blended  (DISCOL)  later  Cleveland Discol.  At the same time  Benzol  (National Benzole - until BP ceased it in 1990's) , the smell at pumps was always said to be the benzol , then it was claimed to be cancer causing.   100% almost benzol was used as car fuel , then reduced  IIRC even at 50/50 it was anti-knock , so did not need TE lead added.   So - where did the benzole come from  ?   -  coke production ,  this was the prime product from coal needed for blast furnaces.  Coking plants had by-product plants , aspirin, paint colours , tar plants  for road surfacing  and benzol plants - the benzol was rail tankered away - where to  ?  The very best coking coal (Busty top seam / Ballarat produced coal specially to manufacture electroded for aluminium smelting.  Other synthetic material for plastics etc.    So - I just consulted a book - the coke oven / distil plant  manufacturers seemed to have German origins  -  Henry Simon  (Simon Carves)  built the first ovens & plants in the UK  , using the OTTO  waste heat by-products ovens in UK.    OTTO Simons - hence the Ottovale Cokeworks near Blaydon.  (Doktor Carlos Otto).   I can think of a dozen coke works in Co. Durham  ( some operational as late as  1990's  , from 1880's) , abt. 4 of which I had actually been - but the mass of pipework you could never understand.   So - where did all this Benzol go - I can only think it was blended with refinery cracked oil based petrol + grain alcohol for pool petrol during WW2 and long afterwards.   The 10 Octane   aviation spirit was made during WW2 at ICI Billingham & Shell/ICI operated plant near Heysham.   Another 100 Octane plant was to be built near Liverpool , however sufficient was being shipped over north Atlantic that the plant was packed off to Curacao.

It does seem that synthetic 'safe' petrol is in fact being made now by a different process.  They can meet the £ cost we are now paying at the pumps.

Synthetic as a rule is oil/alkyd based - ranging from a modern 'coach finish' like Tekaloid , to a pu similar type like Tractol  & better synthetics sold as 'Fleet enamel'  .  No misunderstanding - if the timber is not air dried or kiln dried to correct moisture level - it is not safe to primer or use a well thinned finish coat as a ground-coat. 

Some of the better water based paints perform better on external timber.  I have known of and used water based primers that were far superior for external timbers for over 40 years.   Using a coach/pu enamel  , I would make certain the timber was seasoned ,  normally I have it Vac-Vac treated and that gives assurance of being kiln dried  (IIRC the certificate given gives 80 years warranty -  LoL  !  ) and leave it under cover several weeks in-stick , and then use several brush applications of preservative  (try to get cut lengths first - so soaking lots in final end-grain). This is the procedure I use for such as shiplap, fascia & barge boards ,  I have tried paint systems similar to as used in Norway and ISTR the only ones in U.K. with an Agreement  Certificate (MacPhersons  FLEXARB).

, I don't like the finish to apply - so I use the ICI Weathershield Systm starting with the green coloured sealer/blocker fluid. (Wearhershield is now with 10 year warranty) - but not the newer Weathershield water based systm.   

Coach / PU enamel - I would probably use  Zinsser  OIL BASED  -  COVER STAIN  Interior & Exterior  Primer-Sealer Stain Killer.

I have more than one property ,  would notch uPVC with a barge-board ,  one built 1970 - no rot at all ,  one I stripped 30 year ago & replaced doors windows with Carr Joinery - the Magnet rubbish at new-build was well rotten after only 5 years.

However as your truck is probably garaged - it may hold-up , time will tell.

Having cut through quite a few MacPherson strut springs of similar dimension (even when broken)  using hacksaw and grinder 15mm slitting disc -  I would have fear of going near to get some clamping on.  That is unless the press ram was with a bit of weight-on.

Synthetic / alkyd finish (thinned)  - direct to Redwood , even if not milled in last 6 months  - I would have used a synthetic primer like  HMG  all surface primer  BDX.   If the moisture content is not right - you could have real problems.

Nice find - second best to a urn full of coins , you may be lucky and somebody is able to show a photograph of the trailer unit.  Keep seeking - you may with a bit of discrimination find a few hundred Churchill tank plates    If you do locate such,  then Andy Brown is your man and he resides in the archaeology board forum.

30 minutes ago, osiford said:

I've just scanned this thread, and from what I can gather, the gauge in question reads OK, except at the critical empty end of the scale, so the basic system seems to be working OK. I've had to fit a number of new sender units and gauges on various vehicles, and none of them are exactly precision calibrated instruments. I have dealt with most as follows. Remove sender unit, and drain tank. Next put in a known quantity of fuel, say a gallon. This is, if you like, a "reserve", as it should have this amount available still, when the gauge reads empty.  If your gauge was reading too high a level when the tank ran out, bend the float arm slightly upwards. Reinstall and check reading on gauge. If still not showing empty, remove sender and re tweak. Some folk may not agree with this approach, but I can't see any problem, and I've always been happy with my fuel level readings on the road. Why make things complicated, if a simple solution is available? Just my thoughts, for what they are worth.

There is not much scope for frigging the float arm angle - bend it to improve a reading at low tank and you start to make the full tank reading more in error & it may have been correct in the first instance.

You know  ,  many bread& butter car manufacturers went off this style of sender unit because they are useless for accuracy.   Take  Fiat Group  ,  small cars  £ cheap   Uno Mk1  ,  Uno Mk. 2  Punto  - they had a plastic tube down the tank from the top (a little larger on dia. than a toilet roll tube )  inside is a tubular float (giving variable resistance)  about the size of said toilet roll card tube , this has a small coil spring at each end.  This design probably went back to the 500D of the 1960's  + earlier  ?     Land Rover could have introduced similar but didn't, you have to work around what you have if you want originality,  probably ndividuals would had done better operating modifications if it were not for fuel safety and insurance cover.

These switches on the change over tap - for automotive switches they are quite good quality (and now £ expensive) , I would check that the plungers are not sticking in any way and have a good mechanical/electrical make/break.  They probably match Burgess cheaper industrail micro-switches so not Mickey Mouse  ,  however ther are far better switches used on machine tools and lifts etc.   It's one of those things keeping warm - study of catalogues for a direct swop if possible , or make a different bracket rather than butcher original to mount the better switches.  There is plenty of thread adjustment for the switches - I normally use a spare pair/bracket/tap  and bench set-up & test ,  avoid the plungers being hammered in further than required - it just damages the switch.   The casings can corrode as exposed - when I remember I just borrow my sons mountain bike type chain sprays and give a blast.  Most LWT now are infrequent use - that does not help - switches are always first suspect.

14 minutes ago, ScarboroughSeadog said:

Yes, I have a single ammeter on the shunt box- which is located in the rear tub behind the drivers seat. Correct, contract FVE22A/87. First entry on the VHC is 27/11/79. Chassis 95105646A.

Shunt-box in tub  , that's first location of ammeter/shunt which indicates with Late genny & control box , it then was located with controller  between seat squabs, finally the controller was mounted in a stupid position under the tub on small brackets they welded to the chassis.  

Then the requirement is a final check - that you have PRC1789 cluster mounted  level gauge along with 90560612 tank sender unit. The above two parts will have been calibration checked  & if new / NOS they should be OK.   The only other thing is , because of common fault water entry from vent-seals getting in the binacle box - look for any green verdigris on Lucar connectios (it produces a high resistance that eventually stops current flow).  If you are realy keen then disconnect & check every wire for soundness of insulation & good continuity.  A good AVO and Wee Megger comes in handy.  1/4 indicated full when empty - that is still sort of acceptable.  . 

1 hour ago, ScarboroughSeadog said:

Understood- that's the sender I have.

You need to know for absolute certain.   Starting 1977 - there were lots of electrical & mechanical  'change points'  , only a few such as axles are given to/from Serial numbers.  Defender was complex with civvy - but at least normally the change points were stated with chassis/VIN  number. 

I think you will have a single ammeter on the shunt box between seat-back squabs  ?

--------

 Your   20HF63  -  I think built very early 1979  ,   Contract  FVE 22A/87  Item 1 

I have  23HF63   but not much help because it is  12 volt.  FVE22A/87  Item 3   - and I know this Item were built between March and June 1979  ,   having said that - they could have gone down thje lines alongside each other , because as daft as it may seem  Item 1 and 2 vehickles  were built as late as  November  1979.

20 minutes ago, ScarboroughSeadog said:

Thanks- yes correct fuel gauge is PRC1789.

It's FFR  20HF63......

Then with PRC1789 - you must use tank sender unit   90560612   - the only one suitable  (and in fact suitable for 12 volt vehicles - but only with gauge  (panel)   PRC1768

ISTR that the RAF had crew permanent based around Budle Bay still clearing munitions - until very late , probably circa.   1980 /  1990 , they would have had such a craft.

Yousay your LWT is  1979,  but what is the VRM  - is it a HF  ?      I have some very accurate Solihull records for build up but nearest FFR is  GJ  (1977)  I do have records for most Contracts of  1979 and 1980 - unfortunately these are only for 12 volt GS.

So - I have to go to the next best 'definative'  Fiche   RTC9968FA   dated  June  1993  ,   I have found a few errors but at least it is official  Land Rover Parts Ltd.

fiche 1   page  O8

PRC1789   Fuel gauge   24 volt

PRC1788   Fuel gauge   12 volt   Printing is a bit blurred but  think correct.

So  -  supercession ,  I would say change in contractor supply not change in specification.

Both fuel tank sender units & dash level gauges for 24 volt are different to 12 volt.  You should have 560757 senders , No.. should be stampd on and  552616 gauges.  

Hhmm   -  tap in neutral position , somewhere in my office I have a tap/bracket with switches assembly but I can't find it.  IIRC the switches are N.C.  (normally closed).    Fuel tap lever in neutral - you would only do that as a gratis extra anti-theft (expect running for only 1/2 mile downhill - don't ask , I caught the wife out once).  The fused supply is fed white (Ignition control) & you don't leave Ign. on without engine running.  So - yes , I think you would have both switch contacts bridged  & point (cinch) between the control coil & deflecting coil feeding both tank units , not a normal situation - you are not supposed to do this & I would expect a spurious reading on the gauge.

Reading 1/8th full when emempty  - stop complaining , this is amed at auto electricians not instrument mechanics - it's one step up from having a dip-stick.  The FFR has a moving iron gauge which has the advantage of being independant of supply voltage , the gauge coils are 'cut' at manufacture , the float variable resistance is fixed (don't try re-calibration by bending the float arm.  Measuring tank content when nearly empty , just when you need good accuracy - will it's down to luck , the luck that by some accident you have good calibration. (where means to calibrate were not provided).  a problem is that the float weight is fixed (unless you have a part sinker) , the float swings on a arc from a  fixed fulcrum point - so as the tank gets to empty then the distance from fulcrum to c of g of float automatically reduces - basic engineering has the advantage of cheapness (value engineering) .  At least with a MOD spec. Rover  - you have twin tanks , so don't let either get below  1/4 full. 

12 hours ago, Pzkpfw-e said:

Crude can be refined to produce different amounts of products, petrol was originally a pretty much unusable fraction, paraffin was what was sought.

Plastics tend to be produced from gaseous precursors, rather than from oil per se. 

 

 

That's correct  -  Shell / Shell Transport & Trading , originally made their £  (before the days of motor vehicles)  shipping paraffin / kerosene through the Suez Canal from Baku to the far east - lamp oil was in great demand + cooking with.

Several years ago - I read that in Indonesia  - natural gas was being 'reformed' into diesel & this was shipped for use in the Gulf States  !

If you are conventional cracking for light-ends , there is only a small marjin you can fiddle  - thinners/petrol/DERV / burning oils

Supply to a minature market ,  I don't think petrol will be sold at EV charging points when the hybrids are gone.  It will not be like the pool arrangements to give a fair coverage - some may have to travel quite a distance.  It's all relative to the  £  in your pocket.  The Blower Bentley man will still be around and he will fill his tank the same as always.  The lower classes of petrol-head will be thanking  the BB men for not dropping their interest.