ruxy
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Posts posted by ruxy
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With S3 109" - GKN made the chassis for Solihull , when 88" were in production Land Rover made the 88" chassis , when production ceased Marsland received the welding fixtures as they supplied new replacement chassis to Unipart & then LRP&E. Even with S3 chassis for Lightweight odd unrequired bits sometimes were welded on to genuine new chassis - ISTR these were in fact related to some S2A diesels when a battery was mounted at both Port & Starboard. Richards may lack a little history & so getting all perfect will not be easy for them , but they seem to know what they are doing , the ones I have persused looked fine. Some grump because Richards fit Polybush as standard - probably less £ labour involved fitting OEM rubber 'silentbloc' to a chassis that has been galvanised.
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I recall reading in a Jeep book that during WW2 in the USA - a great deal of effort was given to getting the same shade of Olive Drab across the manufacturers. I doubt if there was any colour Q.C. within the UK during this period . I have had swatches prepared prior to purchasing a few makes of paint - i first try it as a ground coat on wheel rims , if I don't like it - it gets used up for that purpose. A few years ago - I contacted a leading UK paint manufacturer (Technical Department) and asked if a particular paint contained silicones (I did not want). A lady replied and confirmed no silicanes , abt. six months later I received a E'mail from same lady who confirmed said paint did contain silicones - a bit late.
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WW2 A.R.P. Colour Chart !
MOD new equipment contractors today - at Contract stage / pre-manufacturing meeting would be given - specifications of paints to be used & approved list of paint manufacturers (probably 5/6 listed , Trimite & W.J. Leigh + other top firms). Dry/Wet film thickness , Preparations such as blasting to SIS , probably white metal, conditions for application - such as humidity. Colour coat - as a BS381C , I doubt if there would be mention of any NSN - that would be for when introduced to service.
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On 7/12/2023 at 10:55 PM, 10FM68 said:
I may be wrong, but I think paint, war equipment wasn't a vehicle paint. It was the paint approved for 'bits and pieces' such as jerricans, cookers, AEH pins, etc, etc. The SCC15 British olive drab officially finished in the late 1940s, but lingered on well after that, particularly with older vehicles with low useage which didn't, therefore, require repainting. So, for many years it will have appeared alongside DBG. It isn't, though, the same OD as then appeared in the 60s replacing DBG, that was a new colour.
I can't acknowledge copyright of these as I don't know it, but you can see clearly in this photo from a TA unit (Westminster Dragoons) in the 1950s that they were running SCC15 alongside DBG - the rear DAC - (though, note, they have given it a semi-gloss finish, not untypical of peacetime soldiering), while the photo of the Centurion in the background of the VW photo shows it to be painted a lighter shade than the middle bronze green of the VW, again suggesting that it is in SCC15.
'bits and pieces' - the problem with that theory is that I doubt if the army would issue , 5L of Drab SPRAYING for Jerry cans, pickaxe helves , etc. etc. Often the same product is sold to different markets - such as trade & DIY in different can packaging (very recently I have come across Everbuild , triple action clear wood preserver , in 5 L low £ cost & £ printed , the same stuff sold as Lumberjack triple action preserver in a mor expensive £ & attractive appearance can. With Drab - often due to age & owners rubbing in oil - it's a case of does it matter & who knows the truth ? This Walpamur Drab could have come from a MOD Misc. auction (I purchased gallons there - Catterick ,but had to go to a hotel at Tadcaster to bid) . More than probably it came from one of several contractors to the MOD somewhere on Tyneside - Vickers @ Scotswood to a small unit near Blaydon/Stella rail crossing - who manufactured a few things inc. Mule panniers - for over 1200 years to the bitter end @ Hong Kong. The can was given to me abt. 1982 by the owner of Albany Motors (MOD recovery contractor/garage service) Gateshead, all he had used was sufficient to smarten his wheels on his MUTT (I think at that stage the body was still in livery of Israel Army). He was a leading light in the N.E. Military vehicle group and this Drab (and others) were being applied to WW2 & later MV's - American , British and the odd other inc. ISTR two French (Ex-Falklands Argentive). M.V. Drab - it's all a complex subject - they fade , not all at the rate of NATO IRR , and visitors to shows - hardly any would know or take an interest.
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12 hours ago, Piston Broke said:
Apologies if this subject has already been done to death, but my ex-military 1969 SIIA 109" needs a new chassis. Many people recommend Richards chassis, but a friend of mine bought one for his Series I and found brackets and holes in the wrong places, plus the the gearbox cross member not square with the side rails. When this was pointed out to the manufacturer the attitude was basically "there's nothing wrong with our chassis, mate". This was however about ten years ago and I accept that things may well have improved. With all that said, where's the best place to go for a replacement chassis to the military spec for UK delivery?
Have you tried Marsland ? I understand their intention was to again get more involved with Series chassis. However - you are probably limited to Richards , they seem the only makers in recent years to get involved with S2A inc. military (and there are quite a few variations to civvy basic) - they should by now have a thorough list & yours is probably a Rover 11 (I only know of one person - this is Gavin Fozard & is now in self-employed LR business , somewhere near Ilkley) , who has been involved with a 11 & should know any detail differences to a Mk.9).
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Post WW2 - did the British Army DRAB stay the same - as used late 1960's and up to about 1978 when NATO Green IRR finish was introduced ?
For reference - I kept a gallon can of paint manufactured by the Walpamur Co.
This is the reference on the can - H1/8010-99-224-5482 PAINT WAR EQUIPMENT MATT-SPRAYING OLIVE DRAB, BSC 298 The WALPAMUR
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Michelin actualy class XZL as 'Summer' , most Continental countries demand a 3PMSF marked tyre for winter fitment , in E terms M+S now actually meets s.f.a. XZL actually has no small blocks with fine sipes that are needed on snow.
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I have a new XZL on a rim - I can check tomorrow but know it does not state M&S
The XZL evolved from the Michelin 4X4 O/R (off road)
For Defender the above were made in two sizes :-
7.00 R 16 C4X4 O/R XZL TL 108N
7.50 R 16 C4X4 O/R XZL TL 108N
They had a supple casing allowing low pressure operation (down to 15 psi) but at reduced speed , they had extra tripple ribbed sidewall protectors.
Mud rock / loose surfaces , grip on steep banks and slopes - intended for severe site conditions - construction sites /OCCS/ quarries. The C included in the nomenclature woul be for Commercial (heavy - they had a high steel wire content).
If you wanted all that & also M&S on a Defender 90" , arguably better than any Michelin 205R16 , that was a tyre made by Semperit (Austria) called "High-Grip" M&S (reinforced) , IIRC they were used on the original Merceded G Wagen. reinforced = more or less C (commercial) spec.
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It's probably exercise wargames - aerial recognition on the North German Plains - one side had the other had zilch - or possibly just adjudicator.
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The military oil cooler - it's just a civvy Optional Parts item, just that the FFR fan belting pulleys , idler etc. are specific military . Cooler pipework port/starboard holes are provided for civvy or military in radiator panel - a civilian would not have to cut holes.. The holes on top of radiator panel - IIRC are just to fit the rectangular packing bars. A S2A Rover mark 12 volt front wings are same as FFR and have all steel reinforcements on underside. likewise the tub is same military type - not provided for spare wheel mounting as the small Jerry can for lubricating oil is situated there , also the wings have steel reinforcements to mount a candlestick radio antenna base. Due to possibility of engine changes - you could have lost spcific oil cooler parets. From the chassis NO. placed within the 'chassis range' - this gives the Parts Code and if a page states it had oil cooler parts - then it left Solihull with a cooler. In the UK - a civvy would only fit a oil cooler & 8 blade fan kit if he had a usage similar to a FFR , static operation on hand throttle high revs. such as running a flat-belt drive to a circular saw bench running for hours at a time. Such as a 101" would have a Enots isolation valve to cooler , I have fitted one to a Lightweight in past & would only open it for heavy caravan/trailer towing for long distances. Water & Anti-freeze is top end cooling & oil is bottom end cooling . Due to improvements in engine oil from abt. 1980 + the 12 volt Lightweight no longer had a factory fitted oil cooler. There are many photographs of KA to KD S3 Rovers used at Op. Granby - high temperatures ambient during daytime - no problem. These 5mb engines - the advised oil was 15W/40.
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11 hours ago, Grasshopper said:
These panels were used in Operation Granby, but that was 1991 and the vehicle wasn't built then.
That does not stop a previous private owner from adding a embelishment using reflective decal having seen a photograph - ISTR there are some in Bob Morrisons book British Military Land Rovers in the Gulf. (a local road-signs manufacture keeps all colours and types of decal material) .
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Hhmm - first you query your friends Rover , then you give details of your Rover .
So - I can only give my opinion for your Rover & that is not the question ?
Page (iv) of Army Code 20873 (revised Oct. 1970)
Land Rovers 6,8, 8/2. 9, 9/1
88" Contract KL/H/01305 - that was for in the main RHD Basic Utility, Chassis Nos. 24100204A to 24103694A (this is the bulk = Item 1) - all 12 volt.
However there were also 3 qty. other Item Nos.
Item 2. CAR UTILITY 88" Chassis 24402770
Items 3 & 4 were LHD sw (Station Wagons) 24402771 & 24403053 it seems these 3 qty. were LHD & 12 volt
They were all Contract Code E (8/2 ( /2 = reinforced axles)
So - I then go to Page 433 etc (Oil Coolers) - here I can see there are Oil Cooler components and there are deviations for some specific parts that include Contract Code E vehicles - so your truck did have a oil cooler.
Obviously if your friend has a S2A of another Contract No. - then the above has s.f.a. accuracy !
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Was it not Op. Granby where Allied vehicles had high-viz / dayglo fabric panels this size secured to the roof with four ropes ? This decal would serve the same purpose.
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IIRC - the best way is if you know the Chassis No. then you can fit it into the 'range' of chassis numbers for a Contract. Then there is a list of letters - such as B = moe or less a civilian 'basic' truck. The Parts book for Rovers 10 & 11 - does not list the range from / to chassis Nos.
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If you have the Parts Book for S2A military vehicles specifically (Rover 10 & 11 was a different book) - then their is a lift of all Contract Nos. at the front , along with other code - you can then accurately work out exactly how the vehicles were built up.
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6 minutes ago, Jessie The Jeep said:
The wheel to wheel arch clearance on the grey one looks much closer than the others, certainly on the front wheel.
Yes - I realy do need to get out more - signs here that I'm lacking something , ISTR circa 1980 it was actually owned by two people - the two who re-purposed the Beetle , IRC it was a early 1950's /1960's Beetle prior to & I was reliably informed it was split rear window. It had Zoom tubes to silencer box (no heat exchangers) .
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Not unobtanium - but you are looking for a RARE and top $ item here. I have the original in a hard brown card (hardback) file & pages held with a shoe-lace on coil springs - it's obviously not for sale. Somewhere - I may have the same but just pages laced-up but hardly know where to start looking - it's possible that I have sold it - I first obtained this one 50+ years ago, and it took me another 10 years to get the full deal.
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I need to get about more in summer - with a 6" ruler LoL IIRC the one I knew of was 2" nearer the ground.
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Normally - by tradition you pay abt. £15 for a 'narrowtrack' - sort of ER on , this is earlier - I think you should find the actual Trailer chassis / body parts here for your trailer.
https://www.lrseries.com/12090-TRAILER-12-TON-2-WHLD-PARTS-BOOK-NEW-REPLACEMENT?search=parts sankey
/www.greenmachinesurplus.com/12-ton-2-wheeled-trailercargo-mk1-and-mk2-illustrated-parts-list-943-p.asp
Green Machine Surplus £software£ - seem 1st generation copies.
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3 qty. - more than I was aware of ! - for many years I only knew of a single , IIRC it did the Beamish Reliability run from abt. 1968 (just after inception) until early 1980's.
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5 hours ago, Jessie The Jeep said:
Bowes Railway/Springwell Village 1940s Weekend - June 25th
Since I was at the Breighton Aerodrome vintage aircraft fly-in on Saturday the 24th, we only did one day at Bowes on Sunday. The weather forecast was looking good for most of the day, but there were thunderstorms due late afternoon. I didn't fancy trying to pack the Dodge canvas away in a thunderstorm when I got home, so decided to just take the Jeep, as that would be quick to put back in the garage.
Bowes is a fairly small village event and so there were only around ten vehicles there and half a dozen displays and dioramas.
Amongst them were a Kubelwagon and BMW bike and side car. There was one classic car, a few other Jeeps and a Dodge.
Is the Kubel - the car that's been around the NE for 50+ years , sits a bit low because it is a remount on a VW Beetle chassis ?
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£ free / almost free lunch gone ? Gold plated Youtube is £15 p.c.m. to escape ads. - not that I use it to any note.
btw don't cluch on any of these ads. your phone/puter will get some sort of VD that the same specialists charge £50 to get rid of.
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Now 40 years old - the best write up I have seen was by Somon Frazier who seemed to run the Austin Gipsy 1958 Register 1968 - four pages with photographs + his illustrations , inc. a photograph of his which was probably Ex-Civil Defence (althouh I don't think they were relesed by then. B&W photo but must be black or a very dark blue ? , described as Series 4 long wheelbase with fbreglass hardtop. This 1967 model is one of the last and belongs to the author of this article. (the GRP top has a side long window with a half-length one to rear). Mention of the diesel engine that was also used in black cabs (this would be the FX4 of time-line) , I suppose when the bodies had rusted away most of these engines would re-power Land Rovers (Milner Conversions kit) or re-power FX4 for another 3,000,000 miles. BIG move from Flexitor to semi-elliptic leaf springs. Interesting with the petrol engine is a change of main jet that gave much more power (extra 10 hp) with no loss of m.p.g. (Zenith 42VN with larger manifold).
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I would have expecte these Gipsy to have had a mention in Pat Ware's book QUARTER TON - but no. Can't think of anything substantial in 4x4 &/or military books or magazines. Interesting your photograph of No. 20 was dressed with tub candlesticks and Larkspur ATU (aerial tuning units) of the front wings and of course the yellow bridge plate. I wonder if they went to the trouble of rigging a wiring harness for FFW/FFR . Tyres are Dunlop Trackgrip - circa. common on MOD Land Rovers. Hood has radio details - so probably Dexion was incorporated to mount radio ? The NATO pintle on front bumper - normally only fitted by Royal Marines. I have known scrap front bumper blades to be repurposed as bumperettes on Land Rovers - copy-cat.
WW2 British paint code
in I may be stupid, but......
Posted
Returning to the originating query :-
What is the (BSC) paint code number for the "green" used on British vehicles NW Europe 1944 - 45 and what is its proper name so I could ask for it by name only if necessary
My C8 is in Nato green at the moment and as such is very obvious to those in the know
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The simple truth regarding paint on MV's esp. WW2 , nobody involved in resto. took a great deal of interest in "perfection of colour" - that is until they got on the internet (in my case that was I think 1998) became member on MV Forums and started reading / asking questions. There may have been mention in the odd club periodicals. Service/ex-Service people my have been better informed , esp. if they had left with a bit of looted documents. Apart from Jeeps , Champ - Rovers have been my main interest since a 86" - late 1960's. The earliest comic (and it was very good too) that mainly concerned Land Rovers , was introduced 1980 - Overlander 4x4 magazine - I possibly have a full complete set but can't recall any article on the subject. People who arrived at the m.v. scene this century - arrived late and seem to think the old boys know/knew everything on this subject - they don't. Thinking back - if you believed much speel at monthly club meetings , then a better plan would have been to finish your pint & leave (the same applied to the experts at M.v. shows). You stood a fair chance of obtaining sound / reliable info. during the last 25 years - however not over the 30+ years prior.