george

These guns were the fore runners of the 25pdr. The 18pdr barrel was relined to accept the 25pdr round. Noticeably the breech is a wellin screw type, whereas the 25pdr "proper" was a sliding breech. Two types of gun were produced, the split trail and the box trail which again was used on the 25pdr. Split trails are a rare occurrence in France with the BEF, and the photo of them so far is the only one on record. The split trail can be identified (apart from the split trail) in that the shield was angled back on each of the sides, the box trail had a more squarish shape. There is an inner shield, and as stated the gun could traverse 5 degrees either side of centre, there wasa complicated "sub frame" that allowed this movement, and the rubber gaiters on the axle covered the axle as the carriage moved from side to side. The split trail did not require this adaptation as it could be traversed normally. Split trail guns were sent to the Middle East and used primarily by Commonwealth forces, it was not popular with the RA due to length of the trails.....however, anything that could move or fire would have been sent to France due to the lack of equipment available (sound familiar ?????) The gun was originally towed by the Morris Commercial CDSW "Toast-rack", and Guy or Morris FAT's. The Dragon MkIII was also employed. Difficult to pin down, but different units used different vehicles, some regular and some TA. A lot more research is required in this very interesting period. I have made quite a study of the 18/25pdr, there is an example at the Firepower Museum Woolwich, it has been played around with, as the axletree no longer allows the movement of the carriage. There are examples of these guns fitted with "spoked" artillery wheels, but these are pre-war, it seems that the guns that went to France, all had pneumatic tyres. Woolwich built a four wheeled version, that was never accepted, however they had the original layout plan in the library which made my research a lot easier, as it shows the original gun with all the rivet detail.....an amazing find. I enclose a photo of a scratchbuild in 1/35th, plus I have an article and more photo's on my website. www.mooresmilitarymodels.co.uk

A couple of queries, I used to live/work in Aberdeen in the 80's. There was a scrapyard at a place called "Whitehouse" (I think). There was IIRC a Bedford QLR, a Morris 15cwt plus a carrier, which I was told had been used by a local Gillie for shooting parties. There were loads of Austin Champs scattered around too, plus what may have been crated spares...engines ?? Anyone know if its still there or what happened..I dont think he was the type to sell anything at the time. Second query, there was or is a dealer based in the Chichester area..near Portsmouth. There was an inside collection of cars and trucks, outside there was a 7 1/2 ton trailer/Armoured Bedfords as used in Malaya, a few Daimler A/C, a pile of engines in crates, also a Morris C9B chassis. Also in the yard were a couple of very rusty Humber Scout car hulls. I believe they ran a market garden at the premises. Does this still exist and any details???? Just remembered a third scrappy I visited......Peterborough way. There was an AEC Matador, he also had a Humber 15cwt Ambulance. In the yard was a Dingo undergoing restoration, but of interest there was a Guy chassis of unknown origin. I seem to recall ther was a pit in which there was a Humber Scout.......which, again IIRC may have been the roof-less version. Do these ring any bells ???? George.

The FWD R6T / AEC 850, as mentioned, now resides at the IWM Land Warfare hall Duxford. There were rumours of a couple laying in a field "somewhere". The rumours were true, and two rather sad examples were donated to the REME museum, a year or so back, when the owner (details unknown to me), passed away. It is hoped that one good one can be made from the two, thay are in a v/poor state though. I understand they are now in the hands of a restorer. I do have more photographs, ranging from purchased copies from the IWM archives, to photocopies of photos in private collections. The one at Duxford, I did photograph quite extensively, this enabled me to prepare my own drawings and make the model featured on my website, www.mooresmilitarymodels.co.uk. Thanks for the earlier inclusion by the way. During a visit, I did incur the wrath of one of the assistant curators at the museum, I crawled underneath to get details of the very complicated suspension layout, obviously contravening every HSE rule, and it was made very plain just what a naughty chap I had been. Pity, as I was just about to get details of the engine, which appears to sit on a sub-chassis all of its own within the main chassis. The Duxford example, apart from a flat tyre, has a cracked engine block, the result of frost damage, so its a non-runner. If anyone needs more info, and if I can help, just email me at george.dfs1@virginmedia.com One thing I would be interested in, there was an article written about the vehicle in a magazine of the period, 1930's which had drawings of the chassis, now this would be most useful, not sure if it was Commercial Motor, or Automobile Engineer of that era. George.

Double helping of thanks due. I note the interesting feature of guns fitted with the sliding breech as opposed to the Wellin type breech. The base of the gun platform is "hollowed" out to clear the open breech, that is interesting, and a feature I had not considered. As before, these are fantastic. George.

Fantastic, Just what I needed. I agree there are some differences, but the "cranked" axle seems to have been used on this version and the spring mounts are the same. Thanks for this, I can (hopefully) proceed with with a bit more confidence that I might be getting it right. Thanks again. George.:thumbsup:

Amazing info you have there. Is there any chance of getting scanned copies at all. The reason I ask, there is a company called "Tommy's War" that produce 54mm figures and I know they are planning on branching out to equipment. The GS wagon and Limbered wagons would be great subjects. Per-chance what other jewels are in the collection, that might be avaialable. I can be contacted at george.dfs1@virginmedia.com I have my own modelling website at http://www.mooresmilitarymodels.co.uk I hope you find that interseting, I specialise in mostly pre-early WWII Thanks for any help on this. George.

Hi there, and thanks for the response. Any chance you can scan he photos so I can see what was there ? I have the Manual, dated 1940, in which there is a basic description, a lubrication diagram and a drawing of the rear axle, the book says " the front axle was attached to the spriings in the same manner as the rear axle", so I have to assume that both axles were cranked. Photographs I have do not show much of the detail. Do you have any others ???? Thanks and regards, George.

To complete my list of wants, has anyone any info on the 4 wheeled carriage that mounted the 3"HA 20cwt AA gun, early WWII vintage. I have: Photos from ebay of captured/abandoned guns in France 1940. Generally poor quality Photos fron a shoot Life magazine did of them in service with the Egyptian army, good quality but needed the photographer to have moved a little to the left. The scale drawings by Ken Musgrave done in the 80's. Ok but lack details of front axle/actual chassis layout. A lot of guesswork resulkted in these drawings. The Manual dated 1940, which gives a great lube diagram plan of the chassis, but lacks detail. There is a description in the text, but it leaves a lot out. Basically, the rear axle was cranked, I think the front axle as well, but its difficult to make out how the springs were attached. What I have so far is shown. By the way, there is an excellent preserved example which I got access to, at Pendennis Castle, Cornwall, WELL worth a visit, as they have a number of artillery pieces, I think a 5.5 and a 3.7, plus some 25pdrs. if the weather is good, a nice day out too. George.

Yes, I saw that too. My hopes were up when I first saw it and have cropped and enlarged it to no no real advantage. So far I do have a coss section of the earlier Meadows fitted to the Dragon series (Light Dragon MkII). I have contacted a well known restorer in the UK that totally rebuilt a MkVI, which I believe was shipped to the states, but no help there. I was contacted by the new owner of the hulk referred to in the MLU site, he has promised photos, despite a reminder, nothing for ages. Surely there must be a manual somewhere, or a decent lube chart. The only stuff I have are "ghosted" outlines on a GA drawing. Going by experience, everything I could ever want will turn up AFTER the model is completed. The more I see the less I know. George.

Thanks for the info, Hi Les, thought I would finally join this forum, some graet stuff. We are looking at the possibility of going ahead with the FBE Leyland by the way, but nothing definate. The market is a bit depressed so small stuff sells better. Can you or anyone tell me what the large lump seen on two of the black and white photo's is? Is it a jack, I have some photos of the Trewhella winch, which may have been carried. The photos do show that the ladder frame swings, on the diagrams it shown upright. Thanks George.

Thanks, I was aware of the one at REME, so I guess a trip is the only answer. I have dealt with them before, vis Brian Baxter, so I would hope that I could be granted "access". Some museums now are getting a bit aitchesseey. As an aside, a couple of things really, REME were gifted two AEC 850 chassis, pretty poor condition, I believe they were the ones I had rumours of, sitting rotting away in a field in cambridgeshire. Secondly, I admire the work on the MW, I think you have pisted photo's (?). Here is a small one, 1/35th, that will be the master for a resin kit. George.

A bit smaller than those other wreckers etc on this site, but I am looking for some internal detail of the LAD body fitted to the Retriever and Austin 6 wheelers. What I need is some detail as to how the sliding beam was unhitched and fitted to the floor. Ther appears to be two parallel rails mounted on the floor, and a vertical ladder type frame. On the girder beam, there are holes at intervals, and a pin at one end to fix into ???? I have photographs and some stowage digrams of the main bed, but all the photos I have are with the tarp in place, so this area is in darkness. If you can help, it's much appreciated. George.

Can anyone help with supplying details of the meadows engine used for the Vickers Light Tank MkVI. I really need out of vehicle / restoration photo's, that show the block. I would like if possible, any views of the drive /gearbox set up too. I have a series of internal plans, some of which show a ghosted outline of the engine, but nothing definate. Anything from a handbook at all. Thanks in advance. The reason I ask, visit my website, www.mooresmilitarymodels.co.uk and check out the work in progress section. George.

A quick intoduction and brief CV. George Moore living in Plymouth, a retired Fluids Engineer in the Oil and Gas exploration industry for a long time (1968). Retired in October after having worked in Algeria for the last 10 years. Now under new management (???????), working for a more demanding boss! Hobbies model making, I have a website www.mooresmilitarymodels.co.uk which I set up some months ago to showcase my work and interests. Please visit, it gives my profile and many of the projects I am involved in and have done. My main area of interest is BEF vehicles and equipment, also pre WWII vehicles. Thanks for looking. George.