wdbikemad

Good idea, though I fear we wouldn't cover all that many issue-items !!!:-D Remember "derri boots" ...???!!!:-)

I can relate to that....in the RAF we had access to some of the better items of kit and were allowed a giood degree of laxity in the field, particularly in cold weather....when I was at Greenham Common over the (very) harsh winters of 83-85 it was a case of almost anything that kept you warm and dry was acceptable, most important in static posts of up to 12 hours duration..... We managed to get issue of arctic windproof suits complete with liners, plus Canadian extreme cold weather parkas, green RAF waterproofs (often termed the "NI" suit) and other kit......but other privately-sourced items were fairly common too....much was obtained from the Yanks, including parkas, etc.....and green "Hunter" wellies...... I have a photo of me somewhere, wearing green wellies, DPM 68 pattern trousers, American green M65 field jacket & liner with fur parka hood attached, blue/maroon scarf and a black-wool beanie hat !!!....and I was on duty at the time...:-D

I've personally not noticed a scarcity of the larger-size 84 pattern smocks and trousers.....this combat suit remained in use from 84 through to the mid-1990's, with production stopping around 93-94 and was extensively issued in a similar manner to the earlier 68 versions...... One possible theory for the lack of larger sizes may be that the 84 pattern garments were a far better fit than the earlier 68 pattern, therefore the larger sizes were more extensively issued and used.....because the 68 pattern was so voluminous, especially the size 7, 8 and 9 trousers in an incredibly long leg length, few troops ever wore the actual sizes that the book specified for 'em.....in my own case, I should have had a size 7 suit but settled for a size 4 in an effort to look half-way respectable !

Sabre Sales DID have all of the green PLCE a year or two ago now (I raided much of it !!!:cool2:).....but a recent trip proved that most had gone.........mind you, I did manage to find a nice NOS pair of DPM PLCE ammo pouches there (dated 2003) at the same time for a very charitable £20 pair......there were a few more.....(honest !!! :-))

Mark, in theory, if you take a size 7 smock the strides should be a matching size based on height and width......but we are talking the British Army here...!!! :-D The old sleeveless nylon quilted smock liner was made in 4 standard sizes plus "special" for outsize individuals......The 86 QM catalogue converts the old numbered sizes into metric (either sizes 0 to 3 or sizes 1 to 4 ???)....sizes 160 to 190 and heights 150-160cm through to 180-190.. (NATO sizes 5060/9000, 6070/0010, 7080/0010 and 8090/1020 which should match the 68 smock sizes ???)....NSNs are 8405 99 132 1979 to 1982, plus the special size at 1983......:-) Incidentally, it is listed as "obsolete" by 1986 !!! :-\

Dated 1961, I would assume that this is actually a "1959 pattern".......this was the only version of the Denison allocated an official pattern reference...... A quick summary.... Original Dension introduced during 1942 ("Smocks, Denison, Airborne Troops"), with knitted cuffs, tail permanently hanging loose (no securing studs at rear) and no central seam at front or rear.....many have the cammo colouring hand-applied (to the material) before cutting and manufacture....... In 1943 second version of smock introduced that was assumed to be an "economy" version to make better use of material....front and rear central seams now feature allowing smaller cuts of material, plus the cuffs now lacking the woollen ends and featuring an adjustable tab and buttons....this was because not all manufacturers had access to the knitting machines or supplies of cuffs from elsewhere that may have held-up production.......tail now secured by press-fasteners when not in use.....some of these smocks still feature the earlier seamless front and rear but generally have the button cuffs....cammo fabric now printed in many cases.... During the early 1950's the smock reverted to knitted cuffs and lost the sleeve adjustment tabs, but was otherwise as the 2nd version....... In 1959 a full front zip was specified for the smock, becoming officially the 1959 Pattern, issues commencing 1960-61...... By the late-1960's the smock designation was officially changed to "Smocks, Camouflage" but otherwise as the 1959 pattern.......:-D

DPM PLCE is still easy to source, but utility pouches are becoming scarce and command a premium if mint...... The green PLCE from 1989 to 1991 is fast becoming hard to source, especially in mint condition.........I have two mint complete sets plus a decent quantity of parts but not sufficient to build up a third set...most surplus dealers have now run out of stocks of most green PLCE items......... Glad I managed to acquire two mint sets of 72 pattern trial webbing when I did (dated 1971 and 1972/3)...and I would swap one set for a nice basic set of trial PLCE 85 !!!! :-D

Dave...that's terrific info and a great help....I just want to make sure I can cram as much accurate info in the book as possible without overlooking anything.....I think your observations are spot-on too....thank you ! Very interesting smock shown in your photos..........but I note the crutch strap is button-fastened rather than using press fasteners.....possibly yet another variation...?

Bond is wearing a standard 2nd pattern smock (with seamed front and cuff tabs) with an added collar, probably actually done by some in wartime, but in this instance (from a Bridge Too Far) probably a mod done by the film company by the addition of the collar lining to match old photos of the character......

No, the sniper-version of the Denison was nothing more than an issue standard-pattern smock with an additional large pocket added to the left lower rear extending from the side of the crutch strap to the (front) side seam, complete with a stud-fastened flap. This official mod was to be carried out by unit tailors (no doubt by using fabric from a knackered garment) and was approved under ACI (Army Council Instruction) 213 of 24 February 1945 specifically for sniper use and only carried out if the unit OC agreed !......I doubt if many such modified smocks saw wartime service going by the late date.....

I'm fairly well up with my military history ! All part of the airborne forces, air-landing brigade et-all.......and they did a damn fine job !!!!! The one thing I didn't note at the time was the details on the card relating to the smock on show (my concentration at the time was distracted by some w@&%£r fiddling around with my 1942 Ariel motorbike parked outside !!!).....there was some history, but I cannot for the life of me recall if it was associated with events at Pegasus Bridge or not. As with many museums, not everything on show has genuine provenance or relevance to the subject matter........many items are donated..... But the smock on display was intriguing.......definately some sort of "official" garment but not standard issue.....

I am still in shock........£123-odd for a pair of used (but good) size 9 60 pattern strides..........I am now re-evaluating the insurance estimate on my stash......:-X.... Whilst the price for me may be good news for myself in the very short term, the wider picture is anything but.......the long-neglected post-war surplus now seems to be fast approaching the WW2 stuff in terms of price and attraction......I fear the days of bargains are fast ending.........:-(

As far as I can ascertain, the issue Denison was supplied to all airborne troops, including glider pilots......these "officer" versions appear worn by only the most senior airborne officers.....yet the example in the display case at Pegasus bridge suggests an issue pattern item, very different to the standard issue smock.......??:undecided:...and it was original AND showed signs of extensive wear !!

I'm pretty certain that some smocks were privately-tailored alongside many other items of officers kit.......but on evidence I have seen I suspect that at least some may have been some sort of "official" issue, and probably not originally intended for officers but adopted by them nonetheless...(after all, rank has some privileges....).....

I'm interested in other members thoughts on the "officers" pattern Denison smocks seen in many wartime photos, usually being worn by senior ranks........ Close study of the photos reveal that these garments, which do seem to vary in detail amongst wearers, are not a modification of the "issue" smock........there are too many differences, including the press-fasteners that are of the "ring & doughnut" type found on flying clothing rather than the Newey type fitted to issue garments.........some of the photos also suggest that the cammo fabric is possibly a windproof gabardine type, rather than the cotton-drill used on the issue garment..... A few years ago now I was at the airborne museum near Pegasus Bridge in Normandy....and in a display case was a rather unusual, original smock looking every inch the rare "officers" model.......it had all the distinct features, such as a lighter gabardine fabric, different press fasteners, etc, plus a label just about visible that appeared to show details peculiar to RAF aircrew clothing (I seem to remember the visible wording "resistances" ??.....)..... I'm just wondering IF these alleged "officers" smocks, or at least some of them, were actually a previously undocumented Air-Ministry model for some purpose..... Any thoughts...?

Not such a daft question.......but no, one NSN per-pair as with most service footwear......detail info in the QM catalogues generally state "pair"......

Shirt looks to be 1960s, possibly 1964 pattern....clue with 60s shirts are the lack of pleats on the pockets and reduced tails......the late-40s and 50s items usually have pleated pockets and voluminous tails, but not all have eppaulettes.... Late-WW2 is still pullover-style, with an attached collar, but no pockets or eppaulettes........ The 68 pattern KF combat shirt was originally made in khaki-brown until the colour changed to green around 1972, although older brown stocks continued to be used up and issued....a mate of mine was actually issued with several brown 1950's shirts in 1984 !!! Mind you, he was a rather lanky individual...... White plimsolls were issued in the RAF, worn with black socks......your first cross-country during recruit PT saw them turn a strange shade of brown within minutes......and then you had to wash and whiten 'em again ! Mine went straight into the bin on leaving Swinderby.....

Many of us are collectors and enthusiasts of post-war British combat smocks, trousers, parkas, etc.........but how many of us also have an interest in the associated items...? By this I mean combat pullovers, shirts, etc........ There is clearly a need to draw a line on a particular area of collecting, otherwise you run the risk of a never-ending search for anything and everything..............as for me, I've gone for combat outer-clothing, with a smattering of associated items....... I realised not so long ago now that some other items of kit associated with combat dress are becoming ignored and consequently fast-disappearing from the market......this includes combat shirts...... The British Army have used at least half a dozen different patterns of khaki and green combat shirts since WW2, all of distinct patterns no different to the variety of combat smocks, etc, encountered........needless to say I've managed to acquire all of the variations.......but the stuff from the late-1940's up to the 1960's, made in khaki-drab flannel, is fast-disappearing.........and it was still easy to find only 2-3 years ago....not the case this year....

All the above remarks are fairly spot-on.......SLR butt-pouch or hexi-stove carrier........... I seem to remember resting my SLR on my right-side 58 pouch, though you had to wear the belt loose and without the yoke to achieve a comfortable fit..................never, ever saw one of these pouches in service, though plenty on the surplus market 20-odd years later....:undecided:

Looks like a standard US Army M1 helmet with a section of the front chopped out and then a visor fitted......a tad "medieval" Sire....:-) Must have been a rather tall cine-type camera if it required the front of the helmet to be chopped out.......generally, it should have been possible to push the standard helmet back on the head and use a camera, rangefinder, gunsight, etc.....on the M1 the liner cradle is adjustable so you can raise the helmet to sit higher on the head........ Perhaps she had a rather small head, resulting in the standard M1 fitting rather clumsily ? My missus has a tiny head (6 & 1/4) along with the rest of her, so not an entirely uncommon issue with females......

I suggested £80 as a ball-park figure for perhaps the scruffiest examples of the 63 windproof.......repairs, missing cords and labels, non-original zips, etc, can all affect the value........personally, I would be very reluctant to part with half this sum for such an example........ Mint stuff, in good sizes and the rarer patterns are another matter........but when buying anything, I always have a limit set in my mind about when to walk away from an item, no matter how much I want it Perhaps I have been more fortunate than others, but some of the nicest items in my collection have been bought or acquired for nominal sums, and within the last couple of years too (eg - my NOS green 63 pattern trousers at Beltring this year).......much has been found by rummaging around in surplus stores and at military shows, and I can't think of anything I've actually acquired that has come from Ebay......

The trousers shown are the 2nd model (1952 pattern) made in cotton-sateen, many of which did not feature any lining.......the original version of 1951-52 were made in cotton-gaberdine (similar fabric to SAS windproofs) and had lining fitted due to the lighter weight outer-fabric...... In 1953 a third model came along (1953 pattern) that were also in sateen, without lining, but now did not feature the button-flap across the zip-fly which had probably been deemed unnecessary and to expedite manufacture........ All the above models were intended to be worn in extreme cold weather conditions over a thick woollen trouser liner, made from a dark green/olive serge fabric similar in touch to "felt".......they resembled a pair of normal trousers with a buttoned fly, partially knitted rear-waist and open lower legs........very hard to find nowadays, I have a mint pair dated 1951.... The next trousers to come along were the lined 1960 pattern, introduced during 1961......... Note that the smock shown has a full lining extending to the lower seam, similar to the later 68 pattern garment.......1960 pattern smocks saw the lining deleted from below the waist, although the matching trousers saw the lining reintroduced as if the compensate....!?!!!!

Arctic smocks do indeed still feature the wired hood....my reference to "initial issues" was meant to refer to both patterns as originally introduced........in time, the arctic and SAS windproofs both gained an additional small pocket on the upper-rear right arm, plus the arctic smock lost the rank tab on the rear of the garment as this was nearly always hidden beneath equipment............ I recently sold a decent late-model 60 pattern green smock on Ebay (only because I had 4 similar-sized examples in the collection) for an unbelievable £113........ For some people, money is no object........but I think that even if I were flush, I'd still be a tad hesitant about spending the earth on certain things.....there has to be a realistic limit at the end of the day......yet something is truly only worth what another is prepared to pay for it.....a rather accurate adage...:-|

I've also got an absolutely mint Size 9, but didn't realise that the hood was produced in a size "XL" for the 9.........not so for the combat smocks of all patterns up to the early 1980s that used only 2 sizes for the entire range of jackets (small and large, later size 1 and 2)........... Seems the green parka was made right up to the early 1970s, some of the later examples (usually made by James Smith) having black-on-green labels plus NATO stock numbers, etc. The green parka wasn't replaced by the DPM version until 1976-77 and then stocks of the green model were to remain in use until worn out, according to the official side...... First issue parka ("Parka, Middle") from 1951 to 1952 had a permanently-attached hood, no outer top-pockets and made from cotton-gabardine........issues after 1952 (1952 pattern) had the detachable hood, top pockets and made from cotton-sateen.......:-D

The SAS-issue gaberdine smock in DPM was introduced around 1975, followed a year or two later by the similar arctic model. Both smocks were in fact identical in cut and design (not the trousers though) and included one inside chest pocket (on the left) plus the large poachers pocket at the inner-rear, although the initial issues of the arctic version had the additional wired snow/wind flap fitted onto the hoods plus rank slides at front and rear..... I have seen some photos from the 1950s showing SBS canoeists wearing a hooded smock that appears to have a different pocket arrangement and a peculiar buttoned neck fastening, similar in style/design to 1960s RN deck clothing.......not sure about material or colour, but there exists the possibility of a proofed (cammo ?) smock for such a role.......a few years ago now SASS in Lancaster made a repro of such a smock based upon an alleged "SBS" example..........but it is also possible that SBS canoeists used RN or RAF foul weather clothing from the 1950s and 60s..?? Anyone know any more ? The book "British Special Forces 1945 to the Present" by James G Shortt in the Uniforms Illustrated series by Arms & Armour publications shows this SBS smock being worn in a canoe in December 1959 (photo 14 page 13) alongside other personnel wearing the older wartime cammo windproof..... Same book also shows DPM 63 pattern windproofs being worn (photo 39 page 26, photo 97 page 57, and photos 98 to 101 page 58).......and the even rarer OLIVE GREEN 63 pattern windproof smock being worn (photo 82 page 50)...!!!!!