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If I recall these were much better than the RAF blue ones.

Almost no comparison Paul !

The blue nylon RAF waterproof jacket (MK2A) often dubbed the "Jeltek" after the primary manufacturer (Jeltek Weatherguard) was standard issue to RAF Police, Air Cadets and other odd individuals who occasionally acquired them ("odd" in many instances being a tad appropriate)......it had a stud-fastened cold-weather lining that was basically a thin foam waistcoat that was a pain to fit or remove and anything but warm, plus a detachable hood that fortunately assisted greatly in loss at the first opportunity..........the item was eventually replaced in the 1990s by a much improved garment in blue-grey Goretex....

Mind you, on the plus side being issued with the above garment at least meant that you had an alternative to the RAF airmens raincoat.....an abominable shapeless affair favoured by flashers and dirty old men and never to be worn in a high wind or when trying to chat up an attractive female.....later replaced by a much improved double-breasted raincoat in "trench" style similar to the officers model.....

The nearest equivalent to the green RAF foul weather suit was the Royal Navy MK3 deck jacket and trousers.....largely made in blue nylon but an olive green (rather rare nowadays) version was also made for Marines.....both garments made with a peaked hood fitted with adjuster straps & buckles plus inner padded "earmuffs".......early issues had a button weatherflap over the zip but later versions went over to velcro....

The Gurkha sizes above 04 disappeared during the mid/late 1970s, probably as found unnecessary......this range was introduced when the 68 pattern suit first appeared (1971)......later issues of sizes 01 to 04 were without the "Gurkha" designation on the label but maintained the NSN.....intended for female and small-size chaps.......although obviously older production bearing the Gurkha designation continued in order to use up stocks....

68 pattern smock and trouser sizing is always an interesting issue......the original design intention being that the suit was worn loose to permit layers of clothing to be worn underneath as required plus to provide trapped warm air for cold weather insulation.....

Note the rounded belt loops, a feature of some early production 68 trousers and a carry-over from the 60 pattern.....

Belgian, styled on the wartime/50s US M1 with nape strap and leather chinstrap......this example was, I believe, intended for police use (noting the "grenade" badge outline and strap with a chincup arrangement)......but I think the basic model was without these features (still blue), more like a standard infantry model and worn when required with a grey or green finished steel outer shell.......loads of these in new and used condition were available from a particular surplus wholesaler during the early 1990s.......

Very Ally back in the day but too noisy for anything other than stag. I preferred the Barbour Durham myself.

 

But a nice find all the same ! :-)

 

Dave

They were a bit noisy, but not quite as bad as the first issue green and DPM nylon NI waterproofs (the ones with the zip and stud-fastened front, dubbed the "suit, crisp-packet")....

These RAF versions were also not as sweaty to wear as the other versions......they had, amongst other things, mesh vents underneath the arms........personally, I avoided excessive physical activity as much as possible when wearing them, a tradition I've managed to maintain to the present !...:-\

Nice set ! These foul-weather jackets first appeared during the 1970s and were originally a RAF item intended for ground crews (no buttons to cause FOD if they fell off)......they are double-skinned and bloody good, so good in fact that the Army started issue of them in places such as Ireland, etc.......

First issues were made in a lighter-weight nylon than later versions, having a noticeable "sheen" to the nylon......the velcro was often bottle-green rather than olive, and labels were marked "RAF" on the designation.....this later changing to "OD" for both RAF and Army issues......later versions are made in a far heavier nylon with a lighter nylon lining, originally used for the outer too.....

Early issues have a numbered size range from (I think) Size 1 to 3, later issues going "metric"..........

A fantastic suit, which kept me and my colleagues warm, windproof and dry.......issues only stopping during the early-mid 90s when the DPM goretex stuff came in (the RAF having their own version of the DPM goretex smock with lower velcro-fastened pockets instead of the buttoned chest pockets of the Army version of the era)....:-D

By the way, "BIL" stands for "Belstaff International Ltd"........"RFD" is for "RFD Beaufort Ltd" (makers of aircrew and survival clothing & kit)......other manufacturers of these suits included "Vacuum Reflex" and "Jeltek"..........

Hi Jason. They're not listed in my '86 CG (combat clothing) catalogue but this only covers items under "CG".....and being a waterproof coverall and for tank crews it is likely listed under another catalogue that I sadly don't have.....

 

I reckon these do run from 1 to 9, and I would hazard a guess at early 1970's design, probable introduction by 1976-77 and phasing out around the late-1980's along with most other nylon waterproofs in favour of breathable fabrics.....the older size range and use of Newey fasteners (on my example) would suggest 1970's and "Prym" (who bought out Newey) would suggest late-1970s onwards for your example (same studs used in late-1970's/early 80s para smocks, etc.....

 

I suspect many of these suits were worn in BAOR during the 70s and 80s by tank crews.......any old armoured Vet's on here know more...?

Contrary to my ramblings above, I have just found these coveralls listed in the August 86 edition of the QM CG (combat clothing) catalogue !!!

They are listed as a current item, sizes 1 to 9, NSN 8415 99 130 0609 for a height 5'3" to 5'7" chest 34" to 37", up to NSN 8415 99 130 0617 (size 9) for height 5'11" to 6'2" chest 43" to 46"..........described as "Coverall, Combat Vehicle Crewmen's, Polyurethene on nylon, olive drab" with detail stating "Tank crews only"..........:-\

So still on issue during the late 1980s......

The old "Chinese Fighting Suit" (liners, Extreme Cold Weather) were originally intended for wear beneath the DPM arctic windproof smock and trousers, although the smock liner at least could also be issued, and worn, beneath the standard combat smock.....

I'm not certain, but I think these liners are still issued for the current version of the DPM arctic windproof (most recent models made in ripstop fabric)...?

The trouser liner, when worn, made even the thinnest squaddie resemble Michelin-man.......and any exertion (eg - moving your body) made you sweat like crazy.......I never wore mine, preferring long johns under 68 pattern trousers with the arctic windies worn on top....:-)

Doing sit-ups in an early pair of lightweights could cause the button holding the central belt loop to ride up and down squeezed into the crack of the jacksy and cause great pain after more than a few.

The button on the loop usually parted company before this potentially life-altering process occurred.......:-D

Those commercial Denisons were made in the late 1970s by J S Franklin ......they were in almost all respects identical to the late production issue version.......

However, it is also quite possible that the film makers had access to lots of issue late-pattern denisons too......after all, the film was made around the mid-late 1970s and the Denison was in the process of being withdrawn from British military use at the time........quantities were no doubt easily available....I remember my local surplus shop had rows of the things hanging up and Silvermans were selling decent issued examples at £14.99 according to their 1977 catalogue.......happy days !!:-D

Apart from anything else, few actually wanted a Denison at the time, DPM being the sought-after item and difficult to obtain anywhere surplus........Denisons, 60 pattern combats, etc, were all plentiful........and cheap...

The camouflaged wartime windproof smock introduced in 1943 was of the standard pullover-design without the zipper frontal opening. The full-zip front is thought not to have been introduced (officially) in production until the appearance of the green (and later DPM) 63 pattern smock during 1964-65. Does anyone know any different...?

The Denison went over to full zip front on the 59 pattern, and it is known from photographic evidence and surviving examples today that the cammo windproof was often fitted with a full length zipper from as early as the Malayan conflict during the early 1950s.......

I am wondering if any fellow collectors have any 1950s dated cammo windproof smocks that appear to be fitted with a zipper during manufacture ? I am trying to ascertain if this modification occured officially prior to the appearance of the 63 pattern. A good clue would be a matching cammo windflap beneath the zipper on the left-side of the smock plus no sign of any old stitching or holes....:-)

Sidecar looks Norton Big 4.......if original, worth a lot on its own......

I have a W/NG...owned for nearly 20 years....Frame XG 24366 and called "Nancy" (the name carved into her steering damper when found).....built on 10 April 1942 in the Selly Oak factory........

Contact Draganfly Motorcycles in Bungay (speak to Mick Holmes)...they have many repro parts for W/NG's.....

Also try John Budgen in Gloucester for parts........

Russell Motors in London also still have a fair few original WD parts for the W/NG.......

If you wanna make it go a bit better, fit a pre-war VB cam (used in the Red Hunter), bigger engine sprocket, and a 276 carb rather than the standard army 275...........mine will do a good 75-80mph.....!

If you want a decent looking sidecar, watch the film "Nanny McFee and the Big Bang"....she rides a W/NG in the film complete with sidecar !!!

LOVE my Ariel.........:-D

Hi there, can anyone provide dimensions for a seat and exhaust system for a wartime James ML? My 'bike is missing these along with a few other parts.

 

Cheers,

Alex

Alex, contact "Metal Magic" in Eversley, Hants for a repro exhaust system...not cheap but it will fit ! They can offer many other repro parts for the ML....speak to Drew or Terry.......

Saddle is the same as a Flying Flea (also used post-war).......cover made by "Mansfield".......you need to find a "Bantam" size repro seat........

Thanks chaps ! The book IS taking shape, but takes an age to write due to life constantly interrupting...:-(

Last one took nearly 3 years..........and with the latest one, I am keen to get it largely correct from day one......forget the amount of times I've had to add, delete, change text, etc...........but all in a good cause !!

Next year may be further disrupted....have my wedding followed by the London Olympics to add to the interruptions list.......:cry:

Hundreds of these Jerkins were released new from MoD War Reserve stores during the late-1980s/early 90s......all wartime dated from 1939 to 45 and in the full size range from 1 to 3...........they included the "cammo" version too....

As mentioned, the cammo finish was indeed sprayed on to the leather during manufacture and garments so finished were usually (though not always) labelled accordingly.......the reason for the application may have been because the jerkin was intended as a cold-weather addition to the combat uniform of the time, not just a working garment......

I have a couple of new examples from the MoD release, and the colour variations in the leather are many.....

The jerkin was normally a unit "pool" issue rather than a personal issue item, thus was intended for return and reissue......

Also favoured by bin-men and council workers during the 60s and 70s.......:-D

The lightweights were indeed intended to replace the older 1960 pattern "Trousers, Overall", the last issues of which were made in green poly-cotton instead of cotton-drill, the same as the new lightweights....this occurred around 1971-73. The old numbered size range went out around the early 1980s, replaced by metric........

Later issues had a revised rear belt loop arrangement, losing the single central rear loop and being replaced by a pair of loops either side of the rear seam to better support the belt (if worn).........

Later issues during the early 1990's lost the large left leg pocket (it was rarely used in practice).........these trousers still soldier on today but now have very limited usage with DPM and MTP predominating for most orders of dress......

Often nicknamed "TMLs" (Trousers, Mens, Lightweight) :-D

The pair you have Jason, are likely a very early issue from the features you mention, plus a low contract number and made by Alfred Polikoff (Wales) who also made battledress during WW2....!

The tank suit shown is the wartime pattern in green denim....still made during the 1950s and 60s......the heavy tan-colour winter "pixie" suit was favoured for cold weather, also still made throughout the 50s, and did not disappear from use until the 1970s.........incidentally, the label for these is found tucked inside the right-sleeve cuff !! There was a cammo version of the winter suit made in a heavy proofed canvas, wartime-produced, but it did not seem to see much use and was uncommon to see in service after WW2......both versions had detachable hoods made in both colours....

The tropical version of the tank suit was very similar to the denim example shown but made in a green lightweight material.....

It is thought that the denim tank suit lasted in service right up to the early 1970s in some instances, when replaced by the cotton-poly standard army-issue coveralls either in green or black..........

I still recall adverts in the "Exchange & Mart" of the late-1970s/early 80s from a company selling the winter tank suit brand-new in all sizes, noted as "great for motorcyclists"....and in many ways they actually were quite good for such purpose !

Steve - do you have any background on these? Dates of introduction etc? Is 9 the largest size as per smocks/trousers of the era?

Hi Jason. They're not listed in my '86 CG (combat clothing) catalogue but this only covers items under "CG".....and being a waterproof coverall and for tank crews it is likely listed under another catalogue that I sadly don't have.....

I reckon these do run from 1 to 9, and I would hazard a guess at early 1970's design, probable introduction by 1976-77 and phasing out around the late-1980's along with most other nylon waterproofs in favour of breathable fabrics.....the older size range and use of Newey fasteners (on my example) would suggest 1970's and "Prym" (who bought out Newey) would suggest late-1970s onwards for your example (same studs used in late-1970's/early 80s para smocks, etc.....

I suspect many of these suits were worn in BAOR during the 70s and 80s by tank crews.......any old armoured Vet's on here know more...?

I have one of these too, mint condition, size 6 or 9 (can't remember) but the press studs are the large chrome Newey ones as used on the later Denisons......

I've also got a pair of early 68 strides marked "CW Ltd".........guaranteed early 68 pattern clothing manufacturers are F Fryer, H Lotery, CW and Clayton St.Mill....but also Beaver, some James Smith, Cookson and H E Textiles.........all the others came in a little bit later in the 70s......

The list I suspect is not exhaustive......:-\

We used white '37 patt belts with the rear buckles cut off. Rest of brass highly polished. Belts painted white and white plastic courlene lanyards at RAF Northolt in the early to mid 1990s

Plus a 37 pattern ammo pouch, brace attachment and cross-strap.....all actually manufactured post-war in white webbing (usually by MECo Ltd)......

:shocked::shocked::shocked:

Hmmm....I have 3 size 8s, 1 x 7 and a 9...........

Got to dash.....currently planning a cruise.....:-D

That's a nice looking smock.....featuring the commonest modification affected by officers, namely a full zipper fitted....

I think in this case the zipper may not be from an oversmock......almost all are on a chocolate-brown or tan base (unless this one has faded ?) but zips were available from other sources, including RAF flying clothing, commercial sources, etc....

As for the flap covering the zip, the top part is probably part of the original issue smock over-flap, and the lower portion (that does not quite reach the lower edge of the garment) is probably made from the original inner windflap fitted beneath the zipper.........???

Rare to see a wartime second pattern smock in a size 8, the largest manufactured....

Jeltek is a nice find.......as the full name suggests, primarily a manufacturer of waterproof clothing and prominent within the MoD of the 1980s........they made the blue waterproofs issued to RAF Police & Air Cadets amongst other items.....

Sadly, long now out of business as with many of the former combat clothing manufacturers.....

I think you may be correct...across the board - late pattern Denisons; 60 Pattern gear and even 68 pattern clothing seems to be attracting a premium. A couple of size 9 60 pattern smocks also sold for between £145 - £175 this evening:shocked:

Hmmm....and a green size 4 60 pattern smock @£113 and size 9 green strides @£123 sold by me recently......makes me think about the 12-odd other green smocks and strides I have, plus 30-odd 68 pattern smocks.....!!!! Better get on with the book and get 'em shifted !!!! :cool2:

On a personal note, I'm obviously pleased that the interest is here (at last), but a tad depressed by the escalating prices......I hope that I will still be able to find the bits I seek at the shows and events I attend......and I suspect that the odd "gem" here and there can still be found......but Ebay....well, perhaps no longer....

A reasonable DPM 63 Pattern windproof smock in a size 7 with non-original cuffs just went on Fleabay for an eye-watering £240-something.........:shocked::shocked::shocked:

Guess the sudden surge in interest in post-war British combat clothing continues unabated......:-(