Panzer nut

Yes its an late 68 pattern. nsn 8415 99 132 1822 Size 2 nato 6070/9505

My mate walked out of the tent and I went "I bet thats 8415" and sure enough, also the trousers had the 6 belt loops.

Jon

Yes to the first one.

now why do you think late 68 and not 85 pattern?

Jon

It has been said that you can not identify a uniform by its DPM pattern and colour and that all DPM is temperate and any variation in colour is down to production processes.

Firstly I agree and Disagree with this idea.

Now You can not identify a uniform by the pattern of the DPM but the colour will give you a 80% chance of Identifying the Pattern of Uniform.

Examples below:

Example 1 (Above): an easy one for you.

Example 2 (Above and below): slightly harder but i have included a close up of the DPM pattern as well

Comments and answers please

Jon

Some people hav Way Too Much Money on their hands.. I bet the seller fell off his chair!!

I concur

Jon

I thought the Mk1's were made of Poplin which was a softer material. The Mk2's were the gaberdine wich is not as soft and scrunches.

ta

Jon

Below are comparisons between the mark 1 windproof and the Mark 2 trousers.

On the left are the '84 pat or Mk2 and on the right are the '68 pat or Mk1 labels. The other difference is that the inside of the material differs. On the Mk1 can be seen the DPM pattern where as on the Mk2 you can see the reverse is white, as per the '84 pat combats.

Above are the Mk2 and Mk1. On the Mk2 (Left) you can see how vibrant the colours are compared to the Mk1's.

Ta

Jon

Post a picture of the label

thanks

Jon

Hi

First Question: Do they have a Size size or NATO size

If the latter then NO they are not '68 pattern or Mark 1 windproofs they are the '84 pattern or Mark 2.

The trousers are exactly the same cut as the Mark 1 and untill these came available on ebay I did not know that they existed. What does the label actualy say?

they are made of a different material than the Mark 1 windproofs. Mark 1 squash up very tightly where as the Mark 2's sort of scrunch up..if you get my drift.

The give away is the strong green and brown.

Ta

Jon

All I can say is WHY????? they have not yet fully issued it and you get your hands on it. (Shakes head in disbelief)

Saw people at Beltring weraing it..WHY??

Jon

Its interesting when you think about it.

The '68 pat trops which should be proberly '75 pat are in two sizings. Standard Size Sizing and the later Nato Sizing but same NSN's. Then comes the '84 pat trops.

Jon

The problem as I see it is as follows:

The stalls are too close to the entrance, it asorbs the public and by the time they get past them its time to go home.

Big battles means lots of re-enactors but not enough space for them to camp and too many vehicles taking up liing history space.

Military vehicles are no longer displayed but ones' latest tent or trailer/caravan is, which gives the impresion of a very large gypsy camp with the odd grenn machine.

when it rains there is too much unwarented vehicle movement.

No control after dusk

Large groups allowed to do what they want when they want.

Quads and motorbikes still an issue, does not help to see kids on official quads either.

Basically

The Inmates are running the asylum

Jon

I am not going into a long diatribe about the Japanese, but just browse these links and decide for yourselves if we really want to see Japanese Re-enactors...

http://members.iinet.net.au/~gduncan/massacres_pacific.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731

http://www.pacificwar.org.au/WarCrimeIntro.html

So are you saying that because of these that they should be wiped from history. Lets follow your train of thought. I have two words for you.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki

2 of the biggest war crimes ever commited and gues who they were commited by.. Yes the Americans but Ultimatly, US the British as we were part of the Allied force fighting them.

So before you get on your high horse remember those two cities and those civilians that died from flash Burns that cooked living flesh, drowned in the tidal rivers because they were too weak to move, The children who died from radiation sickness. And the British POW's within the blast area who went to help after wards.

Therefore we should not represent the Americans as they are war criminals and we should not represent the British as they were complicite in these war crimes.

So I say Yes the Japanese should be represented.

Jon

I saw LAWS every where from dutch ones for £60, L66A2's for £80 and a few others for Silly £, So either they all sold o the Saturday or we were at differnet shows, lol

Jon

ALthough the ss took part in the war and I too can not see the atraction they must be represented in History. However. Not in the scale seen at Beltring. There should have been a small SS contingent and a large whermacht contingent.

As far as I know only one guy does Japanese and I thinkits importantthat he is not hounded out as his representation is just as equaly important as every other representation.

What I do not understand is that W&P staff failed to enforce their rules in regardes to SS uniforms being worn away from the display.

So Yes SS and Jap forces should be represented BUT in moderation. The extent that w&P allows this to happens will allways give it a bad press hence the BBC program.

Belting is not called the Nazi Fest or Fash fest for nothing.

Jon

We turned up on the Wednesday and even though they had a plan for the living history field and that we submited our plans and requirements Guess what??

Yup no one had catered for us. "Oh will this plot do? There is another larger plot but they want to get another Humvee in there but it may come available but I want to leave it empty just in case."

Ended up in a 25 foot wide by 40 feet deep plot whilst the 50 foot by 30 feet plot stayed empty for......Yes you guessed it...The whole show. 2x 9x9, 2x 7x9, 1x 12x12 and a mess trailer later does not leave you much room we had a 2 foot clear pathway up the middle whilst the Humvee lads who did not actualy have a humvee after that day had a 100 x 30 foot pitch for a shack and a oil drum. Oposite in a 50 foot plot was a jeep and a tent who only displayed on the saturday the rest of the time it was covered up. A Airsoft group got a double pitch. Several Vehicle orientated groups especially the LRDG got pride of place. and the Germans were given 1/2 the field.

Saw 2 ww2 Desert Brit units and no others. The rest with exception of the Afghan Soviets were a mix of vehicles and tents with no display. Some even had manaquins and large empty spots where the vehicles should be.

The WW1 group was excelent and should have had a better prominant spot.

But as usual poor organisation let the event down.

The Beer tent actualy shut down at a resonable time

Mod Edit: comment removed, we will not allow flaming of fellow forum members, PM if you have a problem with this.

Jon

Post and Pre Beltring Blues

Sometimes you can realy HATE people

Merlin round, 1989 dated left and right and utility pouch PLCE, plus a Mortar Bivouc

Jon

Would love to however I am running short of 'militaria' credits (she used to call it 'camo porn') so will have to see what I can do...

 

How about you?

Yes we will bether, flyng the flag as usual

Jon

PPs. You going to Belters

I will double check that thats the right label. With so many pics to hand sometimes I get confused. Butthe NSN matches some reference I have. I was told once that someone got a '66 issued in the late 1980's?

Ta

Jon

ps. No I dont mind

Anyone got the scale of issue for the 80's ???

Ta

Jon

I mentioned earlier that I was issued with one when I joined up for my National Service in 1959. The only times that I can remember using it was when I was transferred from an Infantry Regiment into a Corps and I had to sew on the new shoulder flashes on my BDs and then subsequently different Formation and Command Badges as I moved around.

 

In those days, you were issued with three pairs of socks - heavyweight grey ones - and mine lasted right through my two years service without being "holed". However, after just the first week in the army, I remember a guy in my barrack room showing his new socks with already enormous holes in the toes and he was busy with his "hussuff" darning them up. He was laughing at the time and said - "I am always heavy on socks". I think that he must have had pointed toes!

I thinkyou were proberly still being issued 37 pat or 44 pat kit which I think was a complete system which included everything needed as i dont think you were expected to buy your ownstuff unless it was from stores to replace lost issued kit.

Jon

My Size 22 is 8415-99-132 3791 and is roughly a size 36" so asuminig they go up by 2" the last size available is a size 38", I can see a problem already. Size 9 trousers are a 40" waist'ish. So the question we got to ask is hat are the actuak sizes available??

Ta

Jon

Dont you know that uniforms are that well made you dont need a sewing kit and the ones now made in China come with a small person in the inside pocket who does the sewing for you for a bowl of rice.

Jon