Old Bill

They might have blacked it for a nice shiny fire engine but I suspect that a quick coat of green would have been more likely on an army lorry!

Steve :-)

Thanks for the kind welcome everyone:D

 

Steve, Building a 1/48 scale Scammell Pioneer SV/2S Recovery.

Sounds like a great project. I wish you luck and look forward to seeing the pics in due course!

Steve

Hello All, My name is Randy Ditton. Live in Fort Collins, Colorado. Found this site when searching for info for a scale model project. Have to say looks like a great place to see alot of neat stuff:-)

 

Randy

What sort of modelling do you do, Randy? There is a bit of that here too!

Welcome! :-)

Steve

I may have caseharden it

Ah! that's where I went wrong. I must admit that machining a round bar square and then promptly turning it round again is a bit of a chore. I haven't found a source of square carbon steel that I can machine so key steel is a good substitute.

Thanks!

Steve :-)

turn a taper on keysteel (1040)1/3 to 1/2 the lenght ,turn undercuts with a turning tool to make the cutting edge, heat bright red quench in oil makes about ten holes before its worn out

cheers mal

Thanks Mal.

That's more or less what I have in mind but I plan to use silver steel ('drill rod' to our cousins across the pond) so I will have to machine it square first. I have tried key steel before but the piece I used didn't have enough carbon in it to survive more than one washer. The taper is still an issue of course, but as it is only 0.040" over 1 1/2" length and the male surface is so poor, I think I will get away with some careful filing.

My next challenge is that my press is not wide enough to accept the wheel so I will have to put a thread on the end of the broach so that I can attach a stud and pull it through. It's a lot of effort for just one hole!

Steve

Stupid question, what's a Broach?

Hi Tony.

Good question! I have never seen one used commercially but acquired this one in a box of bits. This one is for cutting keyways in a disc/crank/sprocket or whatever. The previously made plug with slot is put into the hole in the disc and the broach introduced into the slot. It is driven through in a press with each tooth cutting a couple of thou. After the first pass, the shim is placed in the slot and the broach is pushed through again for a second cut. Shims can be added until the slot is the correct depth.

The problem that I will have is that to cut a square hole, the broach must have teeth on all four sides and can be passed through the hole only once. This will test my toolmaking skills to the limit and I hope not to disappoint Marcel!

Steve

I have a slotter of a similar vintage and a bit closer to you if you feel the need!

Thanks Adrian. You are very kind.

That's an interesting suggestion Matt. The taper would give me a nice datum to work to. I hadn't thought of that one but I could do a nice job with a bit of care. Unfortunately, my lathe is only 3 1/2" centre height and even Dad's Colchester can only turn 14" in the gap so we are stuck for capacity to bore the wheel. I could make a steel bush that way and screw it on the back of the wheel though so that could get around it.

A shaper would be nice to have. My garden shed couldn't cope with it though. A lathe, a mill, a bench and me and it is packed!

Spark erosion would do the job but I think it would have to be the wire eroding type which Barry so kindly organised for us to cut the splines in our drive couplings. I understand that the CNC wire eroders are now so sophisticated that the wire can be leaned over during the cutting process and would cut the taper for us perfectly so that is a good solution.

Dad sent me this picture of the steering column today and the mating surface is pretty poor. Wire erosion is too good for this! I am coming to the conclusion that I shall drill the wheel through at 5/8" diameter and rough out the square with a file. Then I shall make a square broach the size of the small end and pull that through. Finally, I shall gently dress the hole out from the 0.689" to the 0.730" of the large end, a bit at a time using blue to see where to cut and then thump it onto the shaft to get a firm fit. Some patience will be needed here but I think I will manage. Just a bit of care needed although I shall swear if I overdo it! Then it is back to making a bush to go in from the back!

Many thanks for all of your suggestions.

Steve

Thanks for that Chaps. I have been trying to work out how they did it originally as the taper is very fine.

Is that a slotter Marcel? It looks as old as the lorry! Can it be set at an angle in order to plane the taper in? My thinking at the moment is to drill the hole and file it roughly square. Then I plan to make a broach which I can pull through the hole with a piece of stud to make it accurately square finally finishing up with some careful filing. It did occur to me to use the quill on my milling machine as a slotter and just mount the wheel on a rotary table, packed up at an angle so that I could plane the taper. However, my mill is not big enough to get it underneath!

Many thanks for your kind offer Marcel but perhaps you are a bit far away this time!

I guess they must have used the slotter originally unless they had some sort of fancy broach. Filing is fine for one-off but production is a different matter.

Cheers!

Steve

Great! I thought they had all gone! No doubt it will come out one day and we can always make a new block if one doesn't turn up. Something to look forward to.

Steve

I'm afraid we have been a bit quiet recently due to end-of-season rallies and so on. We are still working on it though and I hope Tim will be able to post some pics of the steering wheel pattern I am making sometime next week.

In the mean time, we have ordered the timber for the body frame and are also in the process of applying for a licence plate. Whilst digging through the paperwork for evidence of age, I came across this picture. I'm sorry it is so poor but I hope that you can see that it is our chassis frame and another in the roof of a garage near Huddersfield, viewed from underneath. It must have been quite a challenge just to get them up there!

Steve

I have just been Googling Pagefield and have found this comment:

'1913 Pagefield produced the N model, a subsidy 4ton lorry using a 42hp Dorman engine and supplied 519 to the Forces. It remained in production until 1931'

I agree that it certainly looks like one and you are right, the wheels are cast, now I look again.

Are there any survivors? I have never heard of one.

Steve

The Dorman 4JO was used in a number of chassis including the Caledon and the Hallford. This chassis is neither of those! The wooden spokes suggest an American chassis but they wouldn't use a British engine. Tim (GWT) will have a suggestion for sure!

Steve

During the rest of my time in Devon, I made up the fuel pipes and fitted the filter and it all looks very nice. However, the filter stop valve didn't seat and no matter how hard I turned it off, it still leaked. A closer look revealed a sliver of steel down one side of the thread where I had drilled out the old spindle. This was pushing the new one off-centre causing the leak. Much poking with the scriber wouldn't shift it and I was somewhat at a loss until I remembered reading of a method for extracting broken taps from non ferrous metals by dissolving them out in a saturated solution of Alum. After obtaining a supply of Alum from an on-line pharmaceutical supplier (The first time I have used one of those!), I dissolved as much as I could in a plastic pot of hot water leaving some crystals still visible in the bottom. I then immersed the offending casting and left it there all week on top of my central heating boiler to keep it warm. I have, this evening, washed it out and found the steel completely gone. Reassembly demonstrated instant success so I am very pleased.

I don't understand the chemistry that is going on but I guess that it is an accelerated galvanic corrosion process between the dissimilar metals. As a result, it will only take steel out of a non-ferrous casting. If you break a tap off in your cast-iron block it won't work! Another useful process to keep up one's sleeve.

Steering wheel pattern next!

Steve :-)

I think there is a bit too much work in a chara. We have been on the job for eight years already and I don't want to add a couple more! It is interesting to note that the army did have some fairly austere charabancs for troop transport but I have only seen them on AEC or Locomobile chassis. Fortunately for us, Dennis lorries all seem to have the general service body.

I think that the first drive out of the shed is going to be in the new year. Although the body and seat box are fairly straightforward, there is quite a lot of ironwork involved and therefore a lot of man-hours. Unfortunately, Tim and I still have to earn a living and cannot devote as many hours as we would like. Never mind. Something to look forward to!

Steve

I see that Tim has put three more films on Youtube.

There does seem to be some interference from the HT though!

Steve

Thanks for all of that Chaps. Yesterday was quite an exciting day!

I am fortunate to have a day off today but poor Tim has had to go back to work. We do have some more film and I expect Tim will post some later.

The first time we tried to start it, we had two spectacular 'front-fires' through the carburettor leaving us all with our ears ringing. These were due to fitter incompetence on my part as I had connected it as 1-2-3-4 instead of 1-3-4-2. Once that had been rectified, it started on the sixth pull, as you saw, (The film really is the first start!) and ran for about ten minutes. The oil pressure gauge climbed to 40psi and then settled back to 20 as it warmed up. The engine is remarkably quiet with almost no exhaust noise at all. The gearbox hummed gently and the whole effect was super. The engine responded well to snap throttle opening and also idled so slowly that we could count the revolutions so all in all, we are very pleased. Some of the hose joints began to weep as it warmed up but the clips were tightened and that sorted them. Number one inlet valve plug also had a weep so I will go and tighten that in a moment. There is a slight oil leak from the magneto drive shaft which we can live with but nothing else serious.

Next job is to fit some controls to it and then we are on to building the bodywork. It is a simple body but there are still a few hours in it so next year's Brighton run will still be a challenge. We will keep you posted!

Steve :-D:-D:-D

A man after my own heart! Don't worry about not having the skills. If you pick a project and genuinly want to do it, the skills will soon come!

Steve

We're ready for it!

Steve

If i remember correctly, they were called ticklers,I'm not that old, but I think I came across them when I was an adolescent in the sixties, it may have been on fishing boats.

 

Regards, Matthew

I think you are right. When I have played with other peoples ancient vehicles, one of the expressions has often been 'Have you tickled the carb?' I had forgotten that!

Steve

I would have thought that is what all the work is aimed at! Rather than .... Oh I see you had to make a replacement for that...

Quite right! Our objective is to produce a vehicle that looks loved and cared for using factory parts. I don't mind if bits of it look well used as it is, after all, 90 years old. It is nice, however to be able to share and talk about what we have actually done to achieve this illusion and I would like to thank Jack for giving us this opportunity to do so on the forum and to make so many new friends through it.

Steve

That is the end of the needle valve controlled by the float. When starting, it can be lifted off its seat to allow the carb to flood and hopefully ease the starting process.

Steve

Yes, thanks Ray. There are so many good stories which are lost through not being written down. It is really great to hear some of them!

Steve

Thank you for your thoughts chaps.

I have just checked the orifice size in the 135 jet and a number 55 drill pushes in nicely. That is 0.52" or, 1.32mm. Our spare carb has a 120 jet in it which will take a number 56 drill which is 1.19mm. Finally, Ben has kindly loaned us a carb to use as a reference. That has a 160 jet in it which takes a 53 easily or almost a 52 drill. These are 1.51 and 1.61mm so I think you have it, Norman. I agree that it isn't worth making new jets at this stage so we will just run with the 135 and see how it goes (assuming we can start it!)

In my pottering this evening, I have looked at the fuel pipe connection and that is 5/8" UNF! Goodness knows why but I don't have that size so I will have to make a new one 5/8" BSF which is the size specified on the fuel tap. Of course, it needs a piece of 13/16 AF hex brass, which I also don't have, so I will have to make some of that first. Once all that is done, I can make the nut and olive. This really is a very silly pastime!

Steve

Fortunately for us, safety glass hadn't become common so the lorry is completely open and that particular need doesn't arise! :-D

Since completing the tube, I have been tinkering with the carburettor. As mentioned before, I am stripping down one and fitting the parts to another incomplete body of the correct size. This has turned out to be a more expensive exercise than expected as Claudel was French and so it is all metric and we are not tooled up for that! Dad has bought some taps and dies and I have ordered some more change wheels for my lathe to allow me to screw cut metric pitches. Always something!

One thing still remains a puzzle and I am hoping that you chaps can help. The manual describes the correct jet as a 'number 130'. The jet I have extracted from my donor carb is clearly marked '135'. Can anyone tell me how the Claudel numbering system worked and whether I will have to make a new one or not? If I have to make a new one, It would be nice to know what the numbers actually mean so that I can drill it the right size!

All thoughts and comments would be much appreciated.

Steve

I couldn't help but smile at the small quantities of oil which Tony showed in one of the recent photographs. In particular the Dennis gearbox has a self changing oil facility where the oil constantly drips out and you just keep topping it up with fresh...

Quite right. That is one of the reasons why we have not put any in yet!

Steve :-D