Pete Ashby

Knock Knock anybody there?:whistle:

Hello Peter, thanks for that. Think we will go for that then. Dont suppose you have any old door tops floating around. Howard

No sorry Howard mine went with my C15A when I sold it. My son has a set on the C30 I will be back in England next month so if you can wait I can get some photos with a tape measure on them if it's any use. We had several sets of door curtains and full canvas including the windscreen flaps rad muffs and curtain bags for the cabs made by Undercover Covers (I'm not sure if they are still trading from original patterns) and an excellent job they were too.

Pete

Just found them here's the link http://www.undercovercovers.co.uk/photos_ex_military.html

Hello Peter, thanks for getting back to me, It just bothered me because there is a pic of the same body as mine with the hoops and no canvas, with troops in the back. I would have thought the hoops may bounce out of the knuckle without a holding pin. I can certainly agree on the canvas holding them down. Just seeing that pic made me think.

 

Thanks Howard

I know what you mean, but there is a degree of flex in the top bow that exerts an outward force on the socket and it seems to hold everything together just like frame tent poles I suppose. From memory I made the sockets about 2" deep and they need to be a push fit not too sloppy.

Pete

Howard, HTH,

Hanno

Are you asking about the sockets on top of the upright legs Howard ? I've just had a look at the parts book and I can't see a pin listed you should be able to see the component parts and there relevant numbers in the photos I posted of the parts list.

When I made the sockets for my sons C30 (then owned by Steve Stone) the sockets were plug welded in two places and ground back flush to the legs and the top hoops then slotted into them, the weight of the canvas (which is considerable) holds everything together.

Pete

Quick question - did you test the thermostat? Ruxys comment about the Fiat Punto reminded me; my daughter did a head gasket on a Punto, got it replaced then it went again after 300 miles. So they did it a second time. 300 miles later it went again. The garage were getting a bit grumpy now but did it a third time but said that they could no longer guarantee their own work.

 

I got it back to check the thing and was looking for air in the system by my usual trick of squeezing the top hose while the engine warmed up. There seemed to be plenty of fluid in the top hose but I was a bit surprised when the electric fan came on, yet the top hose was still cool.

 

Now that's a thermostat or water pump, so I let it cool down and took the thermostat out. Sure enough it was staying closed even when popped in a pan of nearly boiling water.

 

The garage refused to believe me when I phoned as they had put a new thermostat in when they did the first head job, and it took a repeat of the demo in their office with the help of the office kettle to convince them. Now there is a big difference between a Punto and a jeep, but I suppose the moral of this story is take nothing for granted.....

Fair question Paul however I'd expect the temperature gauge to be off the end stop before the gasket blew, the Go Devil engine measures head temperature on the block side of the stat so if it's not opening the gauge will let you know pretty quick. :shocked:

Pete

Your choice, I was taught to torque down in two stages cold, run up to operating temperature turn off and torque again to specified value while still hot then run for 20 miles or so and do it again cold and then hot to specified max torque and then recheck at 100 miles.

Pete

Torque while it's still hot Steve

Pete

hi Peter, I see from the pics that on the trucks with the body like yours there are bars going the other way to tie the hoops together yet on the body like mine it appears not to have them is this correct. Thanks Howard

Yes that's correct Howard there are no longitudinal braces on your type of body just the hoops.

Pete

 

PS: it was good to see your reaction on 'Agent O's new truck, but speaking of time lapse it was after 4 years of being silent on MLU

Resting Old Boy .......... never silent.

Yes I'll pass judgment on 'Agent O's ' latest acquisition hopefully at the end of the month.

Sorry Howard for hi jacking your thread :blush:

Pete

I see my friend Pete already supplied proper scans of said manual :thumbsup:

Well done Hanno:-) I thought it was something to do with time lapse in the land of the Clog .

That's a very nice picture of a F30 not seen that before

regards

Pete

Hello Pete

 

Thanks for that, not sure what to do, I am not so keen on the one piece canvas, what do you think would you go down the three piece route or a single sheet. Howard

I guess at the end of the day it's what ever your client wants..... but for an anorak purist like me I would go for the one piece sheet every time. My son David has a one piece on his C30 11 cab winch truck and it looks the business I think.

Pete

Some factory photos that show the canvas for the 30cwt and 3 ton range of early CMP's.

Note its a one piece canvas that wraps around the front and back like a big parcel. The photos show a 4A1 body but the canvas will be the same although the hood bows are slightly different in so much as they have longitudinal braces fitted which your version does not have. The overall height to the top of the bars is 120" for all models of GS 30cwt and 3 ton at this period.

Pete

This is not meant to be alarmist but it would be worth checking both the head and the block for any sign of a fine crack it may only leak when hot and may be almost invisible so go over them both with a magnifying glass. I guess as you know you have a problem on No 4 did you do a compression test and leak down test before you took the head off?.

Loss of coolant can but not always be an indication of pressuring the cooling system with combustion gasses did you see any sign of fine bubbles in the header tank after a run for example. Your comment about the new rad cap is interesting in so much as if the old one was leaking pressure then it may have acted like a relief valve the new cap may well have shown up a problem that you have had long term.

Pete

This should be of use Howard from the Illustrated Body Parts List for D.N.B special Pattern Bodies October 1941

Pete

Don't remove the plate on the top Paul this is the top cover for the king pins. What you are looking for is the small recessed slotted plug on the back of the ball housing remove this and screw in a grease fitting and fill carefully with liquid grease be careful not to overfill.

Pete

Chris had Humber A/Cs, never saw any AEC ones. Brussels Tank Museum run one.

Perhaps they were Humbers then Adrian 30 years is a long time :undecided:, I remember being impressed with the height of them. They sat side by side more or less in the center of the yard not too far away from the goods shed and seemed to be in fairly complete condition.

Pete

Good question Bob,

not much use to you now but about 30 years ago the late Chris Wilkinson had three AEC's in his yard at St Albans, not sure which Mk's they were or if anyone ever took any of them into preservation it would be nice to know.

Pete

I am sure that I speak for many and enjoy reading such threads , sometimes the unknown of fact or fictional time twisted memories make it all the more interesting, Andy made the comment that he wanted to share his memories whilst he still could, and I can see is testing the water with the reactions posted so far , I am sure there is more to come , let the man have his say, why on earth would there be a need to pull the thread.

I agree John it's a bit like reading the News of the World while waiting in the Barbers I suppose :-).

There are two ways of looking at this thread either it is a mild wind up..... a bit wierd but Iv'e seen it happen on other forums.. or Andy Brown is a real person with real memories who needs help from us to sort out what actually happened ( I still find it very hard to reconcile 326 whole tanks) but am prepared to accept that some form of scrap was buried.

So Andy which is it ? if it's a wind up you have badly misjudged your audience as there are people on this forum who are recognized world authorities in their respective fields and have spent a life time collecting, researching and restoring MV's so they know their stuff. We have all heard these reports and some have actually gone looking for the buried treasure around the world only very rarely is anything found and if it is it invariably is not what was reported to be in the hole.

So Andy lets try to unravel this mystery for you by going back to the beginning and putting aside the unhelpful politics and other asides and adopt a professional approach to the research so that we can either supply answers or put you in touch with organisations or Government departments who may be able to supply you with information.

So to start the process first off you need to supply answers where possible on the following:

what REME unit was your Father in during 1944/45

Are you in possesion of the war diary for the unit

What was his substantive rank

What was his acting rank

What was his Army number

When was he demobbed

In what capacity did he work post war for the REME with dates

What year was the burying of items undertaken

In what capacity did he carry out the work

What Government departments have you contacted already

How you think the plates that you found in the scrap yard relate to your Fathers activities.

The answers to the questions above will give you and us if you choose to share them a good start along the road to unraveling the story.

This is meant to be helpful and not challenging............ I trust you accept it as such.

Pete

Hi Nick that was an excellent photo of the MWR at the Tram museum, I hope you don't mind but I thought it was so good it warranted a bit of photo shop ' Somewhere in England' :-)

regards

Pete

So, is that about 1.3 acres, as the minimum possible area?

 

trevor

That's about it I recon Trevor, but realistically I would think 2 acres and at least 4m to 5m deep either way that is a very big hole to dig and more importantly an awful lot of spoil to get rid off. Again a more realistic proposition would be to use an existing hole in the form of a quarry or sand pit.

However I still can't reconcile the need to bury tanks that as the figures have illustrated did not represent anything in terms of outstanding cost and represented a much better investment being stored in case of need.

Pete

I thought it might also be a useful exercise to calculate the size of hole needed to bury 326 tanks for this purpose I have taken Adrian's lead and used the dimensions for the M4A4

Iv'e converted the imperial measurements to metric and the results are as follows:

The size of hole to turret top for one tank would be 2.5m x 6.1m x 3m assuming the tank fits the hole exactly.

If 326 tanks were buried nose to tail in a single line this would require a trench 1.98Km long 2.5m wide and 3m deep to turret top.

A more likely situation would be some form of square array for the sake of the argument lets assume 10 tanks wide

the hole now becomes 199m long 25m wide and 3m deep

All of the above assumes there is no space left between vehicles in any direction.

Pete

Using Adrian's more accurate figure for later Mk's of Sherman the total discounted cost increases from £268,950 to £383,050

Pete

Since the start of this thread there as been no positive information or answers to direct questions forthcoming. As a result I spent five minutes putting together some information based on facts and figures. I present them here with no bias whatsoever and will leave those who may be interested to draw their own conclusions or challenge them as they see fit.

It would appear from Andy's narrative that the tanks were of US manufacture so it is safe to assume that they would be Shermans of later Mk's the cost of a Sherman in 1942 was $33,000

Again form Andy's narrative his Father was involved in burying 326 tanks

So 326 x $33,000 = $10,758,000 total cost for the tanks involved at time of manufacture

The exchange rate on the $ to the £ in 1945 (and up to 1949) was $4 to £1

Cost of 326 tanks in £ = 2.69M

Under the terms of the Anglo American loan negotiated in 1945 the cost of war material still held by the British of US origin was written down to 10 cents on the dollar

Therefore the 326 tanks would now be worth $10,758,00/10 = $1,075,800

At $4 to the £ this equates to a total discounted cost of £268,950

Pete

I repeat....... it is now clear what the situation is here.

Pete

Thank you Andy everything is now perfectly clear

Pete