Pete Ashby

1 minute ago, M.Rimmer said:

Sorry Pete our replies crossed.

The replacement engine is, as you say a long block. I'm told it was removed from a 1950's Clarkston tractor which came from USAF disposal at RAF Molesworth. Being from a Clarktor it will be a Chrysler industrial unit. The carb, manifold, born, air cleaner and oil filter are all from the original engine though.

Excellent well done Matt thanks,

that was the information I was missing I should be able to find out the model and cu inch now in case I need to source parts from the states if it's an industrial unit it will probably have Sodium filled valves another plus point, it may be a larger cu inch than the original engine which would be a bonus if that's the case 

Pete

4 minutes ago, Gordon_M said:

Four blade would be right for that Pete, you shouldn't need a six blade unless the radiator is partially blocked.

 

Be careful taking the 'chrome' trim off the radiator shell.  It is fitted with a bunch of non-standard threads and coach bolt type fasteners.  Difficult to get it off and on again.  It will probably be mild steel painted but it did vary with the years.

Thanks Gordon yes just looked it up 4 blade is standard fit for these models, I'm just in the process of removing the trim it's painted steel but some of the tiny coach bolts and nuts are proving tiresome so I'm cutting them off carefully from the inside using a Dremel and a mini cutting disk that way I don't risk mangling the front of the trim pressing........ all dreadfully Commercial I'm thinking.

I currently have a bit of a mystery surrounding the replacement engine that's currently in the truck, it's not a short block US version as I was lead to believe, it's a long block (25 3/8") but for the life of me I can't find an engine number and code on the front left pad it appears to be blank or possibly it's been ground off for some reason that's beyond me. 

I wonder if it's an industrial unit perhaps? I know Dodge made so many versions of both long and short block SV engines for all sorts of applications right up to the early 1960's  but without the stamped engine codes they are not easy to pin down I'll have to wait until I disassemble it and measure the bore and stroke that may help perhaps to identify what it is........ Any thoughts Gordon?? I don't suppose the casting numbers are any use??

Pete

Pete

A bit more negative progress on the disassembly phase.  So far everything has come apart with just the addition of a little WD40 and the application of an industrial hot air gun if further persuasion is needed.   I now tend to use the gun first before I reach for the gas torch as it does a lot less damage and it seems to work and it saves dragging the gas out and hunting for the spark gun which should be hanging on the trolley but never is !! 

Here the wings have been removed

The front nose cone complete with radiator is craned off

Note the 4 blade fan I need to check the parts book tonight to see if a 6 blade was an option 

Radiator and nose cone removed 

Radiator removed from the frame

Nose cone in the process of being disassembled fortunately there is virtually no serious corrosion of these parts which is a stroke of luck as fabricating the grill pressings and some of the compound curves in the nose cone would be very difficult 

Pete

Looking very fine Jez out in the first sunshine of spring

Pete

Bit more progress on the strip down.   The Canadian Dodge range was built with removable cab roofs presumably to reduce shipping volume the joint is covered by a strip of steel fixed with pan head machine screws at the back of the cab and is socketed into the rear doors pillars and front scuttle secured with bolts into cage nuts.

Before the truck came into my ownership at some point in its wanderings around the UK it unfortunately sustained some minor damage in the form of a dent to the mates side cab roof.  The decision to remove the top of the cab at the manufactured joint was made to enable the dent to be worked on using a sand bag and pullers and also to make blast cleaning of the whole cab easier.

Pete

On 4/10/2018 at 3:25 PM, Alex van de Wetering said:

Pete,

Attached are two pics of another D15 GS with round roof hatch in Alkmaar, Holland, 8 may 1945

source:https://www.regionaalarchiefalkmaar.nl

This could be another D15 in Canadian service, but you just can't be sure without seeing the AoS. The census number starts with "Z", not "CZ", but than again we have seen numurous pictures of Canadian vehicle census numbers lacking the "C".

Alex

Thanks for posting Alex,

it appears a very dark colour on the truck I wounder if it could be Service Brown perhaps ??

Pete

 

4 minutes ago, M.Rimmer said:

Pete, are the original hand written factory numbers still on the engine side of the firewall in blue grease pencil?.

Matt

There is a line checkers mark on the engine compartment bulkhead in blue pencil is that the one you are referring too? 

Pete

Hello Matt good to hear from you after all this time yea kept the truck in the dry at the back of the barn all this time waiting it's  turn.

 I'll have to make a date with you in the summer and I'll come up to Bandit country and collect it if that's OK?

Best regards Pete 

With the tank removed the next step was to strip out the cab of instruments, seat, door trims and the careful removal of the original wiring harness which will be used as a pattern and replaced with modern cotton covered PVC wire in the correct colours and terminals the loom will then be sent away for over braiding.

Bulkhead original wiring loom

Bench seat with original cover

The early contract cabs were fitted with commercial pre-war gauges shown in the photo below. Later Dodge contracts used standardized round military gauges identical to the types used in later 13 cabs Ford and Chevrolet CMPs. The dash area of the truck has not suffered too badly from the usual post war civilian addition of extra switches and gauges in fact there are only two additional holes that will need to be closed off. 

The dash with the instruments and seat removed

All the Data plates for the truck are still in position and in good condition. Now removed and stored away along with the gauges and will be some of the last items to be refitted when the restoration is complete.

Pete   

First task was to remove the water tank this will be restored as a separate project after the truck is completed to chassis cab stage the mobile gantry crane is invaluable for this type of work. 

Tank removed and stored at the end of the workshop

Pete

Interesting Alex thanks for posting unusual on two counts,

1,  D15 in Canadian service and 2, a round roof hatch,  I've seen photos of D60S and D60L with the hatch but not a 15.

Pete 

1 hour ago, Alex van de Wetering said:

I think I have a picture of a D15 GS in Canadian service somewhere.....but indeed, that's the only I have found so far of a D15 in Canadian service.

It seems the Canadian did use quite a few D60L GS trucks, as they do come up in pictures.

 

Alex

Interested to see that Alex if you can find the photo, it's certainly very rare to see any evidence of Canadian use.  The British RASC and RAOC used a lot of D60L's in Italy and Northern Europe  and the Free Polish forces seem to have been issued with a high number of D15's and D60L's.

Pete 

7 minutes ago, Gordon_M said:

 It's noticeable how a lot of these trucks survived half a century when stored inside, but go west in a hurry when left outdoors.

Fully agree with you Gordon, you only have to look at the sad fate of my C15A 12 cab which unfortunately had a chequered history after I sold it luckily it seems to have last found a loving home

Pete    

A short history for the truck follows:

Manufactured on the 14 of August 1943 in the Chrysler Dodge Brothers plant Winsor Ontario for British contract number Supply Mechanical 2989 this covered 1428 water trucks given British census numbers Z5597435 to Z5598863.  The following year a second contract was delivered under Supply Mechanical 6087 for another 473 trucks Z6168871 to Z6169344 so it would appear that total production of type was 1901 water trucks.

The next 31 years of the trucks history currently remain a mystery.  The release date is unknown but a green registration document claims the vehicle was first registered on the 10^th April 1974 registered in Aylesbury, Buckinghamshire as a ‘mobile crane/recovery vehicle’,  colour of vehicle is given as ‘green and cream’ so at some point prior to this it has lost the original tank and gained a smart paint job however the first registration seems very late to coincide with a release from service so I suspect the truck was operated by a garage on trade plates prior to this date and the actual release date could be as early as the mid-1950s. 

This is a photo of the truck taken at an unknown date and location in the green and cream livery minus the tank but with recovery back body but looking a bit tired, my guess is the picture is taken some time in the late 1970s or early 80s

The truck then appears to have changed hands several times and turns up near Coventry in March 1986 and remains in that area for 10 years at some point gaining a post war 1 ton GS body I have a photo from the web at an show that may possibly be an early Duxford MV event at a date after this photo the truck was repainted in OD with the addition of a couple of large Allied stars on the doors

The next move is to Lockerbie Dumfriesshire in June 1996 where it is regularly taxed every year until 2002 when the truck now moves again this time to the Barmouth area of North Wales and at some point apparently has an engine swap for a US produced T214 unit although this needs to be confirmed when it is removed from the truck.  By 2005 and it’s on the move again to south Oxfordshire and has lost it’s 1 ton GS body

The following year I purchase the truck and move it to West Wales and put it into storage awaiting its turn in the workshop.

 The truck is remarkably unmolested with many original fittings still in place and is in exceptional condition. From the general condition it appears not to have covered many miles under its own power the speedo reads 15000 miles and I suspect this may well be the original unit sadly the Canadian tank is long gone but I have a good British 200 gal tank that will be used for the time being the last photo is taken in the workshop awaiting strip down.

Pete

1 hour ago, Gordon_M said:

Thanks Pete, WATR is what I was remembering.  Good to know my brain is still functioning. 

Impressive if it's the same truck it must be over 16 years ago 

Pete

Your memory is faultless Gordon full marks for recall here's a photo of all the cab plates from the truck the one you refer to in your post above is 3rd from the top and is the Canadian CMD type identifier.

Pete

Most MV enthusiasts and modellers have heard and can recognise the Canadian Dodge range of WW2 trucks however more detailed information appears more difficult to come by.

The range covered included 15cwt, 60 cwt Short and 60cwt Long wheelbase versions including Dump, Water Tank and GS bodied trucks all using a 4x2 drive line with 4 speed box with 2 speed axel for the D60S all models used the long block version of 6 cylinder 95bhp Dodge side valve engine and standard pre-war commercial cab and front end. The historical record has been somewhat overshadowed by Ford and Chevrolet production, as a result of this lack of focus readily available information for Dodge Canada regarding award of contract dates and production numbers for trucks in each class are not readily available which is a shame as the company provided a significant number of trucks for the British war effort.

D15 GS (Van)  (PhotoIWM)

D15 T with 200gal water tank (photo IWM)

D60S Dump body (photo DND design records)

D60L GS body (photo DND design records)

The majority of 15cwt production was dedicated to GS bodied versions D15 GS (Van) around 5,000 trucks, however two contracts were for 200 gal capacity water tankers D15 T under British contract numbers Supply Mechanical 2989 (1428 trucks Z5597435 to Z5598863) and Supply Mechanical 6087 (473 trucks Z6087 to Z618871). 

The trucks were delivered to the UK fully fitted with Canadian manufactured tanks and equipment the tank design differing slightly to the standard British water tank as fitted to the well-known Bedford and Morris 15cwts.

It would appear from photographic evidence and census number allocation lists that Dodge 15cwt production was almost entirely taken up by the British and Dominium forces excluding Canada who  standardized on Ford and Chevrolet models in the same weight range the water tank version only being produced by Chevrolet.

Next instalment will focus on the known post war history of my particular D15 T.

 Pete

Thanks Gordon for the information I'll post the post war wanderings of this truck in a later post perhaps you could confirm it's the same truck as the one you describe above. 

Enjoying this thread very much there's a lot of good work going into this restoration keep it up and keep the photos coming 

Pete  

Good evening Gordon long time no hear,

yes it's the same truck you had up your end of the world information would be very useful please.

Regards

Pete

The turn of the New year saw the start of a new project that has been in storage waiting it's turn in the workshop for far to long and so on a cold misty damp day the Dodge D15T was pulled out of storage and moved into it's new home ready for total strip down, restoration and rebuild.  A couple of photos of the move here and in the next installment a bit of background history on the type and of this truck in particular.

  I apologize for the quality of these first photos however it was a damp misty evening and dusk was fast approaching but I hope they give the general idea and sets the scene.

Out of storage ready to move across the yard into the workshop

Me on 'Trevor' my trusty M35 tractor doing the business with a solid bar with my son David piloting the D15T into the workshop

Pete

A number of people are using Ferret tyres including my old 12 cab Chevrolet C15A however the beads need to be trimmed or the rims turned down ( an option I decided not to take) so I ground out the bead using an abrasive buffing wheel on a drill, a messy and time consuming operation.

Pete 

Just another thought If your running vacuum windscreen wipers check all the connections are sound,  the take off for them is below the throttle plate on the inlet manifold. 

If you have a problem there it produces a direct air leak into the manifold giving a weak mixture and dropping the inlet manifold depression particularly when you open the throttle plate suddenly on acceleration. 

The net result of this is two fold obviously a very weak  mixture but also the loss of vacuum in the choke tube (result of air getting in below the throttle plate) will give issue with the fast running circuit as  naturally aspirated engines rely on the correct vacuum to generate air flow to draw fuel (controlled by air flow via the throttle plate) to operate the fuel circuits correctly.   

In short air leak into the system as a whole =  

Pete

Are you running on a Carter or a Solex carb,?

Only running on choke could indicate an over lean mixture caused by an air leak (running on choke will give you an over rich mixture to compensate for the leak).  As you say you had this problem before you rebuilt the carb start by checking for air leaks around the inlet manifold to block mating face. 

Get the engine running after a fashion and spray a little WD40 around the inlet manifold joints and the carb to manifold joint, you are looking for a momentary increase in engine speed to indicate the leak or better still attach a vacuum  gauge to a point below the throttle plate you should be reading between 17 and 20 inches of Hg at around 800 to 1000 RPM fairly steady.

Pete

3 hours ago, gas 44 said:

I think you will find a jeep is worth what ever some one is prepared to pay.

Just so,     like it or not the market is self regulating. 

A jeep or any other vintage vehicle for that matter is not an essential purchase like food or fuel for example therefore the buyer has a choice to buy or not.   The actual value of a 70 to 75 year old vehicle is in reality nothing so the price it sells for is one that the market supports.   As ever in antiques world the buyer drives the price not the other way round the seller just follows the trend.  I'm old enough to remember that one element that fueled the interest in MV collecting was the cost of veteran cars moved beyond the pocket of most interested people back in the late 60's and early 70s Mv's were cheap scrap price. 

Pete