Jessie The Jeep

Just found on Wiki ( haven't seen any other evidence of this, but I'm going to keep my eye open from now on ) - 'An earlier use of black and white bands was on the Hawker Typhoon and early production Hawker Tempest Vs. The aircraft had a similar profile to the Focke-Wulf Fw 190 and the bands were added to aid identification in combat. Promulgated 5 December 1942. At first they were applied by unit ground crews, but they were soon being painted on at the factory. Four 12 inch wide black stripes separated by three 24 inch white, underwing from the wingroots. Officially abandoned 7 February 1944.' So not the same as the invasion stripes, but a similar idea. Steve

A good read! Let's all ask for a few grand less when we come to sell our vehicles!!!!! :-D It's like house prices, they are worth what people are prepared to pay. So long as people do pay the high prices, there won't be a change, but for what you actually get in an MV, they are WAY over priced. £11,000 for a jeep - You could get quite a reasonable car for that money. Most of us aren't doing it for profit though are we??? We do it coz we enjoy it. If you spend thousands restoring something that will sell for £2,000, where is the logic? none at all, but if you enjoy doing it, showing it etc and got great satisfaction from the experience, it was worth every penny! Steve

Many aircraft had the upper surface stripes over painted with camo about a month after D-Day, just leaving the underside stripes as identification. You can often see the dark shade of fresh paint on B&W pics, compared to the lighter faded older paint Steve

I think I've got a copy somewhere. I'll search it out. Steve Sorted!

Yes, I read about that just recently on another forum. It was virtually bullet proof, as shown in a test to Generals and Admirals. A block of normal ice shattered when fired on with a pistol. The other block was Pykrete, and the bullet ricocheted off it and hit one of the high ranking staff! Steve

To the best of my knowledge, no allied aircraft carried any markings similar to the Invasion stripes prior to D-Day. Most were applied the day before. The footage was probably being used out of its correct time period. Unlike most modern warbirds that wear invasion strips which are all very neat; wartime stripes were all over the place. They were painted with everything from a 4 inch brush to yard brooms, and the edges were anything but straight. If I ever had the money to operate a warbird, it would be painted to look scruffy, chipped, worn and generally abused. Steve

In the Film 'Sweet Liberty', a film crew arrived at a town to make a film about the US war of independance. Alan Alda's character ( the writer of the book the 'film' was based on ) was unhappy about the historical inaccuracies being made, and complains to the director to get at least something right. To quote roughly what the 'Director' character said, "There are three things the kids want to see in a movie. 1) Defy authority, 2) Destroy property, 3) Take peoples clothes off. They don't care if the hats are on wrong, or whether there are leaves on the trees.........." and it's true. It seems to have become a formula for films. Sometimes a good story is left out of this formula!!! Steve

Steven Spieldberg prefers real action to CGI, even if it is models. That is why he used our model P-47's for the Band of Brothers series. He said that CGI animators can't create realistic movement and momentum for aircraft. The P-51 in the front titles of BoB looks all wrong as it is CGI, especially when it banks and turns away. The P-47's attaching the troops were the models. Pearl Harbor had many GCI aircraft in addition to real aircraft. The CGI's flew all wrong, defying all laws of aerodynamics - but it was only a film to make money for entertainment, not to satisfy the purists. I guess once we're paying the bills, we can make everything right! Steve

There was also a lack of Lancasters!!! I don't believe the Canadians were prepared to fly their aircraft to the UK at the time. It had only been airworthy for one year after a lengthy restoration. That would still have only made two aircraft if the BBMF had joined in, and this was in the days before CGI. There are rumors that the Canadian Lanc is coming to the UK in 2008, and if it happens, it will be the first time there have been two airworthy Lancs in the UK for a long time. Let's hope it happens and that they fly together. Steve

So sad when the people involved pass, taking their stories with them. My Grandfather-in-law ( Lynne's Grandad on her mothers side ) worked on the spotlight set up for the Dambuster Lancs. He died before Lynne and I ever met, but I would have loved to spend some time with him hearing about it. Steve

In June 1989, myself and two friends headed south to Duxford. This wasn’t a normal visit to view the Imperial War Museum, there was something special going on. Five B-17 Fortresses, five P-51 Mustangs, three Hispano Bouchons (License built Bf109’s), a single Grumman Avenger and a single B-25 Mitchell gathered for the filming of David Putnams ‘Memphis Belle’ film. This was the largest collection of B-17’s in the UK since ‘The War Lover’ 1961 starring Steve McQueen. In addition, the three Bf109’s were the only three flying in Europe. There was going to be a small opportunity to see these aircraft in the UK, so we jumped at the chance. The Avenger and the B-25 were camera ships, the Avenger having the rear fuselage and tail resprayed olive drab so as not to look out of place if caught in shot. Click the thumbnails for enlargements. http://www.hmvf.co.uk/album/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=639&g2_serialNumber=1&g2_GALLERYSID=bec275a48209413d1c80d340d27ae10b[/img] The aircraft had arrived a few days before we did, and there had already been dramas. One B-17 was UK based. Two were from France and two were from the USA. Four of the B-17’s were ‘G’ models, and they had all been converted to resemble the earlier B-17F’s that were operated at the time of the ‘Memphis Belle’. The oldest B-17 was an original B-17F which was flown from the USA by its owner, Bob Richardson. For several thousand miles flying the North Atlantic, the B-17 had no problems, then not far from Duxford, the B-17 had engine trouble and had to shut one down. Sadly Bob died before the film was released, so he never got to see the results. The lead role, as far as aircraft were concerned, went to the Late Dave Tallichett’s B-17. Dave was a wartime 100th Bomb Group pilot, and probably the only wartime B-17 pilot who was still flying B-17’s so many years later. Dave’s niece was one of the films producers, and that probably helped with the choice of lead aircraft. Her name was Catherine Wyler. Name ring a bell?? Daughter of William Wyler, producer of wartime films including the original wartime colour documentary of the ‘Memphis Belle’!! During the filming, a more alarming incident happened. One of the French B-17 suffered a seized piston which subsequently blew the cylinder off the crankcase. As the cylinder detached, it blew the engine cowling off the B-17, which curled back in the airflow, flying back and almost hitting Stephen Grey in his P-51. Unfortunately none of the cameras caught the incident but thankfully, the B-17 landed safely. This B-17 had just received its replacement engine taken from the IWM B-17 ‘Mary Alice’. When we arrived and the damaged unit was being refitted to this aircraft. Later in the filming, the aircraft moved to the recently vacated RAF Binbrook for take off, landing and ground scenes. A control tower of wartime style, was built on the field for the filming. Because it didn’t have planning permission, it had to be knocked down after filming finished. Another area of the airfield featured a large expanse of concrete. The director didn’t like it, so the whole area was turfed over the concrete the following day! While filming at Binbrook, one B-17 take off went seriously wrong. Nearing flying speed, one main wheel seized, dragging the Fortress off the runway, through a pile of stone chippings. It became briefly airborne befor crashing into a cornfield and catching fire. All ten crew managed to get out of the burning plane, though there were injuries. The plane sadly was almost completely destroyed by the fire. Once the flames got to the fuel load, there was little the fire crew could do to stop it spreading. At the time of our visit, I had an old 35mm film camera. I didn’t realise that part way through the day, it stopped working properly. Many of my pictures were lost, but I did have some which turned out ok, a few of which I’ve attached below. Steve P-51 line up and to the right, two of the Bf109J's in the hangar http://www.hmvf.co.uk/album/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=641&g2_serialNumber=1&g2_GALLERYSID=bec275a48209413d1c80d340d27ae10b[/img] http://www.hmvf.co.uk/album/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=643&g2_serialNumber=1&g2_GALLERYSID=bec275a48209413d1c80d340d27ae10b[/img] B-25 Mitchell 'Dolly' and Avenger camera ships http://www.hmvf.co.uk/album/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=645&g2_serialNumber=1&g2_GALLERYSID=bec275a48209413d1c80d340d27ae10b[/img] http://www.hmvf.co.uk/album/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=647&g2_serialNumber=1&g2_GALLERYSID=bec275a48209413d1c80d340d27ae10b[/img] Original B-17F 'C Cup' and one of the Bf109's http://www.hmvf.co.uk/album/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=649&g2_serialNumber=1&g2_GALLERYSID=bec275a48209413d1c80d340d27ae10b[/img] http://www.hmvf.co.uk/album/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=651&g2_serialNumber=1&g2_GALLERYSID=bec275a48209413d1c80d340d27ae10b[/img] The Fighter Collection's P-51D 'Moose' and the Old Flying Machine Company's Bf109J http://www.hmvf.co.uk/album/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=653&g2_serialNumber=1&g2_GALLERYSID=bec275a48209413d1c80d340d27ae10b[/img] http://www.hmvf.co.uk/album/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=655&g2_serialNumber=1&g2_GALLERYSID=bec275a48209413d1c80d340d27ae10b[/img] David Tallichet's B-17G framed between the wing and prop blade of a P-51, and Bf109 being towed out. http://www.hmvf.co.uk/album/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=657&g2_serialNumber=1&g2_GALLERYSID=bec275a48209413d1c80d340d27ae10b[/img] http://www.hmvf.co.uk/album/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=659&g2_serialNumber=1&g2_GALLERYSID=bec275a48209413d1c80d340d27ae10b[/img] P-51 pilot waves as he taxis past and a row of four B-17's. Dave's closest, the two French aircraft in the middle, and Bob Richardson's B-17F at the rear. http://www.hmvf.co.uk/album/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=661&g2_serialNumber=1&g2_GALLERYSID=bec275a48209413d1c80d340d27ae10b[/img] http://www.hmvf.co.uk/album/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=663&g2_serialNumber=1&g2_GALLERYSID=bec275a48209413d1c80d340d27ae10b[/img] P-51D 'Miss L' http://www.hmvf.co.uk/album/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=665&g2_serialNumber=1&g2_GALLERYSID=bec275a48209413d1c80d340d27ae10b[/img]

There has been quite a bit of talk on aviation topics recently. How about a seperate section for aviation related subjects? Steve

Many warplanes in addition to the Lanc were repaired in the field by changing major airframe components. I read somewhere that the B-24 production ran to something over 18,000, PLUS another 2,000 airframes worth of spares. B-17's were repaired in the same way. There is a photo somewhere of a B-17 with a natural metal front fuselage and wings with an olive drab tail, the join being just behind the Radio Room. Outer and inner wing panels, fins, tailplane and rear turret were also modular sections and could also be swapped. My 1/6 scale model comes apart for transport at the same positions, giving four wing panels and three fuselage sections, although the fullsize had additional break down points. On the Lancaster, I know the outer wings could be removed at the diheadral break complete with outer engines. I don't know whether the centre wing was one piece through the fuselage, but I suspect it was. I know the mainspar passes through the Lanc fuselage ( a major obsticle in bailouts ), but I don't know if this was a structural member in the fuselage to carry the wing loads, or whether it was part of the actual wing. If it was one through spar, it would make replacing the inner wings a major engineering project. The fuselage splits in several places like the Fort, and I'm guessing replacing a tailplane or fin would be relatively easy. Maintenance is one area where US and UK air forces often differed. One RAF engineer I talked to, said they would mess on with an unservicable engine for hours fault finding to get it operational. He said the American engineers, if they couldn't find anything quickly, would just drop the engine and replace it, and let the specialist engine units find the problem. While the US forces had more supplies and equipment, many line chiefs still used 'Midnight Requisitioning' and canibalising of 'Hangar Queens' to get the spares to keep their planes airworthy. As one 100th BG Engineering officer told me, the guys back in the US had no idea how many spare parts it was going to take to keep a Bomb Group in the air, so we had to find other ways to get the spares we needed. Regarding powerplants, there was concern that the supply of 'Cyclones' may run short. As a result, B-17E #41-2401 was modified by Vega with Allison V-1710-89 V12's rated at 1,425HP. It was known as the XB-38. It flew for the first time in May 1943, and was found to have a much improved performance over the original B-17E, but in June, it was lost to an engine fire in flight. No further developments were made after this as Gen. Arnold felt the supplies of the Wright engine would remain adequate. Picture here - http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a3/XB-38.jpg Steve

True, the Condor had a good range, originally being an airliner. The 2,760 mls range is stated at 'Overload Fuel'. Whether that allowed for any bomb load I can't find. Standard fuel load gave a range of 2,210 mls. Its bomb bay was a small add on gondola to the bottom of the fuselage. Bomb load was carried both in this bulge and externally on the wings, totalling 4,626 lbs. Range figures that I have found doesn't state whether eny external load was being carried as this would have an effect on range. Unfortunately for the crews, the aircraft also had a reputation for in-flight structural failure! Only one Fw200 survives today, and that was recovered from a Fjord in Norway in the 1990's. Steve

It looked identical, but as far as I've read, very little was interchangable as all the material thicknesses, dimensions etc, were converted from imperial to Russian standards. They got the B-29's to copy from a few aircraft forced to land in Russia due to battle damage. Steve

The B-17 would burn more fuel on two engines than it would on four at long range settings. Mixtures were leaned, RPM cut to 1250, altitude lowered, prop pitch adjusted. Steve

Sunderlands may have had a good range, but the Atlantic is a big place, and during the worst time of the Atlantic War, Britain was struggling for war materials to build and fight with. Coastal Command used any suitable aircraft it could get its hands on, which included US built aircraft. I've read that they had to fight hard to get support and materials for that section of the forces. My books state the following, but don't add under what conditions these figures were obtained under. I'd have to check my B-17 pilots manual for that. B-17E range as 3,200, combat radius 1,600 mls B-17F range as 3,800, combat radius 1,900 mls Another book says.... Max Range B-17E range as 3,300 mls B-17F range as 4,420 mls This max range could have included bomb bay fuel tanks, but again, the book doesn't state conditions for the test. I'm guessing both sets of figures came from similar tests, particularly the B-17E test. Fuel consumption could be cut to 95 gallons ( US ) per hour on long range settings allowing a good loiter ability. I'm always cautious about Wiki info, as anything can be added there without being fact, but because it is on there, people take it as fact. I usually try and find another source to back up anything I find on Wiki. Steve

Oddly enough, this was what it was designed for back in 1934, and it was the RAF who ended up using it for this purpose! Steve

The RAF flew B-17's in combat first with 90 Squadron operating B-17C's, essentially not a combat ready version. The aircraft were green/brown/blue. They found several weaknesses which had already been addressed by Boeing in the 'D' version the USAAF were flying and the 'E' model under development. Later they operated B-17E's in Coastal Command where they sank 12 U-Boats. Those aircraft were finished in green/grey/white. In November 1943, 100 Group was formed at Bylaugh Hall, Norfolk and operated Green/Brown/Black B-17's in electronic counter measures roles. Steve

What usually happens is that the pilot opens the throttles too fast and you get a 'rich mixture cut' on one engine with a resultant loss of power. This is what happened to the first Blenheim restoration, about 1 month after the first flight if memory serves me correctly. The pilot made a 'touch and go' or low pass and low power, and then opened up the power too quickly for the go around. One engine didn't immediately open, and the plane cartwheeled off the airfield ending up on a golf course. Thankfully the crew all survived. Here it is. So, Yes, low power and opening the throttles too quick can cause a crash. Power on any aircraft should be applied gradually and progressively. The second Blenheim also crashed ( I think the pilot ran out of fuel ) on final approach to Duxford. This aircraft is being restored once again, but this time the the Mk1 version. Steve

Wow, back from the dead! I started this thread just after coming back from Normandy over two years ago! Steve

I think the Indian Army still uses it in Curry.

I think the US operated Photo Recon Mosquitos from Mount Farm. They started out overall PR blue, but many allied pilots mis-identified the Mossie with the Me410, so the horizontal and vertical tails were painted bright red as an ID feature. Steve

Keep it coming! Some nice hardware listed, even if it isn't green! Steve

It was the Kingcobra that crashed at Biggin. The same company ( TFC ) lost an Airacobra a few years before. The Fighter Collection now have and airworthy P-39Q Airacobra on the show circuit ( see below ). Steve