79x100

The G3/WO looks wonderful, Steve...I feel quite proud to say think that a couple of small parts I had kicking around have found their way on to it...The only thing that 'grates' a little for me is the late / post-war rebuild plate...I'd prefer it looking more 1940...but I prefer everything to look 1940 or earlier.😄

Based on the styles, I'd say the top, aluminium example is post-war. The next one down looks 1920s...the lighter -etched silver one with black background looks late thirties and is probably correct for early-war - and the bottom one perhaps early 1930s.

Long gone, I believe and few agents would keep second-hand vehicle records for sixty years.

12 machines is a fair-sized block and by the 1960s, ex-WD M20s were no longer the mainstream transport of the masses that they had been ten years earlier, at which time any BSA dealer would have been happy to have them in the absence of new stock.

Dawson's come up so often in the odd case where documentation has survived. They were clearly the main buyer of usable stock appearing at Ruddington.

Unfortunately, in the early days of DVLA computerisation, the authorities retained and destroyed the old county council logbooks so a lot of history was lost. Nottinghamshire records have not survived either. They were destroyed as instructed. At one time, DVLA were prepared to supply copies made from their microfiche scans of the documentation provided at computerisation but they no longer do this as they consider it forbidden under modern data protection law...The current situation wouldn't be the time to ask for a favour either. I obtained some back in the eighties and nineties, but it was on thermal paper so I've lost it now anyway !

What is it that you're actually hoping to find ? One thing that you could do is search the DVLA records on-line to see if there are other BSAs (or motorcycles) surviving with numbers close to yours. You might find something like this one. Is yours an 'MTO' number ?

https://www.andybuysbikes.com/archivehtml/07597mch.html#

Has the bike been re-registered, or does it still have an early 1960s serial ? If so, then where ? It may be possible to narrow things down to  an informed guess, although it may involve looking through back issues of the weekly motorcycle magazines to see which dealers in various towns were advertising lots of WD M20s at the time.

Lots of 1960s M20 demobs have Nottingham registration as Dawson's of Shakespeare Street, Nottingham had become one of the main ex-ministry motorcycle dealers.

An H14 ? The specifications changed a lot over the years.  They were mica at one stage.

The steel motorcyclists helmets were not legal for use when helmets were first made compulsory. There was an insistence on British Standards approval. Some time later, the EU insisted that helmets legal for sale in any European country should be acceptable (there was no UNECE regulation at that time) and somehow or other they introduced a vague wording which stated 'designed for use as a motorcycle helmet' and many took this to mean that pre-BS helmets were also legal which couldn't have been the intention at all.

Things have now clearly been tightened up,  but the gov.uk site tries to give the impression that only BS6658 is now acceptable..try as I might though I can find no trace of legislation which outlaws earlier British Standards and it would be unusual for it to be retrospective.

I did find this on line...

Helmet standards
You must wear a helmet which has been approved to one of the British
Standards listed below, or to UNECE Regulation 22.05.
British Standard No
2001:1956 may be worn only

1869:1960 may be worn only

2495:1960 may be worn only

2001:1972 may be worn only

5361:1976 may be worn only

2495:1977 may be worn only

6658:1985 may be sold and worn

Alternatively, you can wear other types of helmet which could reasonably be
expected to give a similar, or greater, level of protection in an accident as
British Standard 6658:1985 or UN ECE Regulation 22.05

To my mind, unless you're able to argue that the steel helmet gives a similar or greater level of protection, you're probably on dodgy ground.

RAF Blue-Grey seems to have continued in use for some Air Ministry items other than vehicles.

This is a 1943 dated Kismet foot pump. It's probably fairly safe to assume that it has never been repainted.

It is blue....but very close to grey under some lighting.

'Provost Unit, Royal Military Police, British Army of the Rhine' indicates military police use from July 1967 to November 1968 when it went to 17 Reserve Vehicle Depot.

'S/O' is 'Struck Off' for disposal.

'RMG' was a Middlesex series exclusively issued to Government vehicles from about March 1939. It's not unique in having been disposed of still bearing it, but it's certainly not common and of course means that there hadn't been a wartime rebuild and loss of identity.

It's all most confusing....You'll recall these articles that you copied, Mr. Rewdco ! 😃

There seem to have been two bikes at MEE in July 1940 and then both Graham Walker and Arthur Bourne were invited to test a machine in about February 1941 - allegedly the first from a pre-production batch of fifty.  The both grovelled at the altar of Edward Turner....Bearing in mind though that the Triumph factory had been destroyed in the Coventry blitz of November 1940,  I wonder if this talk of a new batch was simply propaganda ?

Bert Hopwood (who thought the 3TW a dreadful thing) refers to the two initial bikes actually being pre-war civilian prototypes adapted for military use - the only bike photographed was ERW 947 which was a May 1939  Coventry series which might back this story up. Hopwood states quite categorically in 'Whatever Happened to the British Motorcycle Industry' that the fifty special 3TW machines were made and assembled and were packed in their cases on the loading deck of the Despatch Department on the night of the Coventry Blitz and were destroyed....."I still feel that, so far as the fifty specials were concerned, Hitler did our War Office a favour" 😁 He makes no mention of where the ten machines in December 1942 might have come from but this was about the time that they moved to Meriden from the temporary assembly plant in Warwick..

There were no WD/COs in 1938....The first 'proper' WD contract COs were delivered in March 1942. Any 1938 Enfield would have had the larger pre-war civilian lettering.

My dad worked at Woldingham spray-painting Caterpillars for the Groundnut Scheme. Were they orange ? I'll ask him. I'm sure that he doesn't have any photos though.

Has anyone analysed the sequence of inspection stamps on Coventry Triumph engines ? The numbers were unique to an individual inspector and it may be possible to get an idea from when these 5S engines were inspected, based on the same stamp on WD serial-stamped 3SW engines such as this one.

Does Mike say what colour the pre-war 'khaki'  was ?  Pre-war India Office Nortons were listed as 'khaki' when the War Office machines were 'Green' but then in 1939 when Khaki Green No.3 was introduced, they were suddenly described as 'Brown'....I suspect more of a 'Dried Mud' Khaki.

On 3/27/2021 at 8:13 AM, flyingfleasteve said:

Wiring started, a nice rewarding job!

 

Just a little bit of rivetery-countery and not of such import on a Matchless where the CVC box is slightly hidden, but WD MCR1s up until at least June 1942 were marked 'Lead-Acid' to differentiate them from the pre-war Ni-Fe boxes. On Nortons particularly where they're stuck out on the side, it's noticeable. Does yours still have the original internals, Steve ? If so, what is the date on the back plate ?

Rubber didn't really become short until after the Japanese took Malaya in early 1942....There is a tendency to assume that 1944 spec was 'normal' but allowing for 1939 production during the build-up, pretty much half of wartime production was not subject to rubber shortages and a fair quantity of the vehicles that were went straight into post-war reserve stock which is why they were so common on the 1950s and '60s demob market. Lots of rubber bits is really far more 'warry' in terms of year served.

Which model of Enfield are you restoring ? In practice, apart from use of the WD/C by the BEF and by some second-line units in the Middle East, it is hard to find evidence of their use by the British Army overseas. Italy was a campaign that saw M20s, W/NGs, 3HWs and G3Ls with the British and 16Hs with the Canadians.

In terms of markings, as early as the Army Council Instruction 'Vehicle Markings 1941', published in January of that year, it was stated that formation signs would not be applied to motorcycles and this was repeated in each subsequent publication.

The most correct choice would probably be simply the arm of service marking on each side of the fuel tank.

The heavyweight Webb forks and the style of the headsteady clamp really look Triumph...The 'three stay' plunger rear-end is unfamiliar to me..I suspect that it is a 1940s suspension upgrade.

I'd say that it was pre-war Tiger 100 with upgrades but that the fuel tank doesn't belong on it

The 24w/24w non-focussed bulbs in motorcycle headlamps most certainly didn't have 'e' marks...neither does a 'Difusa' glass.

Sadly, there is a large-scale fraud going on with a number of Indian eBay sellers....Jan posed as a buyer on another group. It appears to be common practice to photograph a genuine item and then sell poor quality look-alikes. Presumably they hope that feedback will be left before the buyers find out that things don't fit.

Matchlesses and no two alike ? Who'd have thought it ? 🤪

Lucas lists are supremely unhelpful and confusing. I believe that this first one is from 1939.

The earlier 1936 list shows one with a black bezel, but only the 6-0-6 ML that they took over with all the Maglita stuff in the early thirties.

It looks as if you should have the 369, 075 which was the BM4 L15  with an upright needle and illumination at 6 o'clock. It had a chromium plated bezel.

Whatever, if you paid more than 8/6d then you were had !

Sorry to chime in late. Gas paint really shouldn't be too carefully applied. They simply slapped it on.

Mine had quite a small area but with very visible brush strokes. I got it wrong though as I put the panel on afterwards.

Indeed Ron. Taff said that those fitted as original equipment by the manufacturers didn't have the Lucas markings cast in, but those supplied as replacements did....I think this held true for the major firms, but some of the smaller outfits seem to have purchased from wholesalers rather than direct.

No casual tea-leaf is going to be able to walk up and start a bike of this era. ignition left on full advance and fuel off should be enough. A chain around the rear wheel and frame will stop someone from walking up in bike gear and riding off on it...professionals with a van who go equipped to steal will remain a problem whatever you do.

It doesn't look by the way as if the OP is doing a WD rebuild, but in case it's important, the Altette shown is a post-war aftermarket civilian version. (cutaway body, aluminium branded bezel and acorn nuts).