79x100

Presumably you have an oil-cooler ? For some reason the Series 111 cooler isn't fitted with a thermostat. Earlier military Landrovers had one I believe.

I think the problem is that the vehicle was designed to be able to sit for hours with it's engine running in Desert temperatures. Not surprising it gets a bit snotty in Blighty.

Do you still have the fixed fan? probably draws enough airflow to pull you along on it's own. A kenlowe helps.

I used to find it quite interesting to watch the needles on the oil and water temp gauges. Coolant gets up towards 80° after 5 or 6 miles but the oil needed 10 or 12 of fast roads to get up to temp before you can start steaming-off the condensation.

Keep it free of gunge as much as possible and give it regular oil changes.

Rich.

Isn't a red triangle a bit risky ? It might fade to pink on a sunny day and attract unwelcome attention from those who take their Nazi re-enactment too seriously. Even worse, it might get you followed to the khazi :lol:

Rich.

It does seem wrong doesn't it ? Hitting any kind of screwdriver with a hammer. It would have brought a clap round the back of the head from my old metal-work teacher. I try to avoid hitting anything other than a soft-metal drift or a punch with a hammer.

Could I put in a word as well for the good old hide mallet ? Worth all the nylon tipped or deadweight hammers in the world

And don't forget the old adage that one well-aimed blow is worth a thousand ill-judged taps (Hurts your bloody thumb if you miss though!)

By the way, I'm a Richard as well, should I start saying that to avoid confusion ?

I would agree that London pattern screwdrivers are great to use and the wooden handle removes any temptation to use them as a drift which some modern drivers encourage.

I had an idea that the London pattern had slightly flattened "cheeks" when compared with a "cabinet" pattern, making it less likely to roll away unpredictably when placed on a sloping surface.

On the subject of files, I assume you have all heard the joke about the young apprentice who had to assist a fitter with filing on his first day ?

The fitter turned to him and said "Pass the big Bas*ard"

Back came the reply "I can't find the big Bas*ard, will this little Fuc*er do?"

'ammer. Is that the Cornish name for a Brummagem Screwdriver ?

I have bought a couple of Gedore Whitworth / BSF spanners fairly recently and they are good quality with the slimmest jaws I could find.

Anyone know of a current source for 3/8" drive Whitworth sockets ? Most Whitworth tools tend to be a bit clumsy and not ideal for working on motorcycles.

Box spanners were the period alternative to sockets and they vary enormously in fit. It is well worth taking samples of fasteners along to an Autojumble and trying the spanners out for the closest fit.

Hope it not garaged as I will only vehiccle Out, standing init's field.

Both visitor numbers and old building costs would still be relevant. All the more reason to make sure that the building and the location are right first time.

We can probably blame Ted Heath's Local Government Act for making a place that calls itself "Humberside" sound so unattractive to visit.

I travel fairly regularly via Dover with either parts of or complete motorcycles and that is never a problem. (It was before the "Single Market") If Customs are convinced that you have not been out of the European Union then there will not be a problem.

Parts to incorporate in a restoration will be just that. From a legal point of view, I suspect there is no difference between a screw bought on ebay and a tank hull. They can all travel freely.

The "Age-related scheme" in UK is great and I'm glad to hear it works for Tim even for Italian vehicles. All I can say is that the Belgian Authorities are using European guidelines to turn down almost anything without papers and what happens in Brussels today is bound to have an effect elsewhere sooner or later.

The real pressure here is from a lobby which calls itself environmental (Get rid of those nasty dirty old vehicles) but which is actually driven by the motor manufacturers who just want to sell more cars.

If you're going to bring in an obscure restoration project then the best thing is probably to find a local farmer prepared to swear that the thing has been in his barn for the last sixty years. It shouldn't cost you more than a case of whisky.

I like the idea of a museum that includes ongoing restorations although as an expat I couldn't really do more than pay to visit occasionally. There's no way that I would move my 'bike from it's nice centrally heated garage !

The fire risk is a problem (The National motorcycle Museum also went up in smoke and now they're busy faking all their former exhibits) If restoration is also to be included then you're never going to be able to weld without somebody standing-by with an extinguiser and a fire-blanket even if all they're going to do is laugh when your overalls go up in flames.

A further problem, especially if you're going to work on the vehicles is theft. I've worked in factories where if you dropped a spanner from a gantry, you never heard it hit the ground. On the other hand, if you lose your toolbox keys, it's always handy to have a Scouser around :lol: (JOKE)

On a more serious note, does anyone know what the real reasons were for the perpetual failure of the Museum of Army Transport at Beverley ?

It can't all have been down to their unhelpful attitude. Perhaps there really isn't sufficient demand for a "softskins" museum.

There is quite a difference between EU and outside. Within the EU, provided you have the Current Registration Documents then it should just be a formality. Customs can still ask for a receipt to prove ownership but that is another thing.

Presumably EU includes quite a lot of old Communist Block countries now.

Based on my experience here in Belgium, I would say check all documents carefully. Many were issued at local level and dates of first registration can be quite approximate.

There is also apparently a problem with ex-Italy vehicles as well. Not only do they have several different agencies to deal with but there is an "environmental" scheme to give a bonus for taking old vehicles off the road. The current scam is to take the money, send in the docs and sell the vehicle to an unsuspecting foreigner who doesn't find out there is a problem until he tries to re-register it because the authorities won't confirm anything.

I believe that there is now an EU directive which forbids re-registering in another EU country if the papers are not present. This is supposed to be an anti-theft measure.

I am currently going through the process of registering my Dunkirk-abandoned Norton and have to explain that it has never been registered here. Short of a photograph showing the Pioneer Corps flattening the Customs Barriers on the morning of 10th May 1940, I don't really know how to explain away the lack of paperwork. :lol:

I may be stupid and American vehicles are not really my thing but why is the Dodge "Weapons Carrier" so called? Was it designed for specific weapons or is the name a code to confuse the enemy ?

Come on, spill the beans then now you've made us curious. What sort of vehicle is it and what makes it special ?

If your (soon to be ex-) friend reads this then you might achieve your aim anyway.

I have to say that my 1939 Norton has given me a similar dilemma; Original unit markings, linked to a specific campaign. I've restored bikes before to quite a workmanlike standard but I'm not a museum conservator.

Should I try to conserve what remains of the original markings ? They are quite damaged and certainly don't look as they would have done in use anymore. Should I try to overpaint them to the best of my limited artistic ability ? Professional restoration is not an option. They just sand-blast everything.

Let's face it as well, even if a museum wanted a machine with lots of bits missing, the world is full of museums with badly conserved or inaccurate restorations sitting there on flat tyres.

I think the best I can do is document and photograph everything and work to the best of my ability. Is that good enough ? I won't know until I've done it.

Anyway it's my bike and I'll do what I want with it :evil:

The Dutch name for parrafin is "Petrol" (What we call petrol they call benzine) Some of the garages in country districts used to sell it on a pump for the farmers who use it for heating glasshouses and things.

When I first came to Belgium, I drove straight up to the "petrol" pump with my 2 1/4 ex military series 3 Rover and filled up both under-seat tanks. :oops: I drove all the way home wondering why it was so cheap.

Apart from the thing smelling like a Primus stove, I had no permanent ill-effects, although I did drain it off once I realised. I didn't buy engine cleaner for about 3 years :lol:

I have had a look in my books on markings.

Howard Cole in "Formation Badges of World War 2" states that 21st Army Tank Brigade originally wore the diabolo in Yellow but subsequently adopted a black diabolo superimposed on a vertically divided shield of Royal Armoured Corps colours of Yellow and Red.

Hodges and Taylor's "British Military Markings 1939 - 45" illustrates both as "alternative" but gives no further detail. The yellow diabolo is illustrated without background.

Cole shows a black diabolo without background for 25th Army Tank Brigade and states that "A white Maple Leaf was added to the centre of the upper triangle to commemorate this brigade's service with 1st Canadian Infantry Division in Italy"

I'm not sure that the Canadians would be too keen on their maple leaf being described as a "White flowery thing" :lol:

I would go along with the above. Panniers only seem to have become common after 1942 but if you want to portray NW Europe 1944 - 45 then you will need them.

Any 60 + year old motorcycle is going to be a steep learning curve. Do your research thoroughly first and go for originality. Most of the engine parts are available. It is original cycle parts that end up costing.

The best place for background info is probably Orchard & Madden's book and "Old Bike Mart" probably has the most small ads - A lot of the sellers of this type of bike are pre-computer and prefer a monthly paper. it is subscription only. They have a web-site.

Have a look too at Henk Joore's WM20 website.

I'm not a Dodge man but an old vehicle is an old vehicle so you're welcome to my two pennyworth on the subject.

Did you have a dead short on the electrics ? Normally that leads to a blown fuse or smoke.

Have you checked your earths all round and for corrosion and water in the bulb holders and things. Don't forget it's not just rain at the moment but a salt solution - electrolyte. It could be that now it's dry, the fault is not apparent.

I think your best advice in the first instance is to go round and clean all your earthing points and vulnerable places like bulb holders.

On the fuel problem, the dirt must come from somewhere. Was it rust or not ? How old are your flexible fuel lines. Are they the correct material ? Old or rubber tube can start to flake inside and can collapse internally resulting in fuel starvation.

You may well have tried all these in which case, good luck because intermittent faults are always the worst to rectify and the problem is often a combination of problems.

This is something that concerns me a bit, living in Belgium, because via France is my most direct route to the UK.

What precisely constitutes a military vehicle and how will the French know the origins when a vehicle is registered in another country? With the exception of a very few details, my WD Norton is outwardly identical to civilian models. If I obtain a spare petrol tank and paint it silver will it no longer be military ? If I paint a pre-war bike khaki, does that make it military ?

Land-Rovers are another good example. Is any Bronze Green or NATO Green Land-Rover a military vehicle or only if the rear cross-member is changed ? What about an ex-MOD Station Wagon or, heaven forbid Morris Minor.

Common-sense tells me it is unenforceable but I don't really want to be the person to find out. Presumably the law will also apply to components, as with firearms. I'll have to watch out next time I bring a New Old Stock gearbox spring through customs.

Maybe we will all have to show how ridiculous it is by "Declaring" an ex-military ball bearing or something everytime we enter France for whatever reason. It doesn't have to be a ball bearing but a spherical object seems most appropriate, especially if accompanied by a whistled version of "Colonel Bogey". :lol:

Thanks for the welcome.

I think that my bike was dragged off and hidden by a local as it had been roughly covered with a coat of black paint. Similar stories are not uncommon here and I have read that the BEF abandoned some 20,000 motorcycles alone so perhaps that is not surprising.

Sadly, the bike has been robbed of it's engine and transmission so was more of a rolling chassis really. That is also perhaps not so surprising as the land is very low lying and almost everybody has a cellar. Pumps are always in great demand and Nortons sold the 16H motor for agricultural use post-war so it is certainly suitable for that sort of thing.

The bits that I acquired are a real time capsule. Paper labels in the headlamp and November 1939 WD marked tyres and inner tubes. It also has those nice bits like cable clips that are normally so difficult to identify and find.

All the published sources that I have come across state that Divisional Insignia was not applied to motorcycles but mine clearly has the "Crossed Keys" of 2nd Infantry Division and a Cobalt blue rear number plate as used by Royal Engineers. This carries the figure "1" which seems to have also applied to HQ Engineers at that time. Interestingly, rather than being white, the figure "1" appears to be in the same shade of yellow Gas Detector paint as the panel on the headlamp so that seems to be another deviation from regulations.

As a final point, the bike has twisted forks and shows evidence of splinter damage to the rear end. I hope that it was simply parked and the victim of an over-enthusiastic bridge-demolition charge. Apparently the concrete Belgian bridges were quite difficult to demolish.

My intention, when it's finished is to ride the route that 2nd Division took from their forward position on the River Dyle at Wavre back to Dunkirk.

Lots more research and dirty hands before that becomes reality though.

I've had a chat with my Dad tonight and he's going to have a look through his books as well although most of them are immediate post-war publications and tend to be a bit short on detail.

He is fairly certain that he only remembers pioneers in NW Europe as part of 21st Army and also cannot remember any Canadian Pioneers so perhaps all those at Army Group level were British. This is of course not definitive but perhaps helps build up a picture.

My Dad spent D-Day tied up on the South Coast losing all his money playing cards. I don't think he has gambled since ! I too grew up with the same views on Hollywood films "The bloody Yanks weren't even there" is one of his milder comments.

I used to work in Dorking and for some reason the Black Swan at Effingham was a regular haunt at one time so Bookham doesn't seem too far away to me.

Good luck with your book hunt. If you really get stuck, I'll run you off some photocopies if it's quiet at work. That said, if you are considering various options for British wartime vehicle markings then I think that it is the book to have. I seem to remember that the IWM site shows that their library has a copy.

Cheers.

Rich.

First of all, my apologies for breaching etiquette by jumping in and posting without even pausing to introduce myself. To be honest I followed a link from another forum and just waded in.

I am an Englishman living in Belgium and am restoring a Norton 16H which was abandoned here by the BEF in 1940. The fact that the original markings and gas detector paint etc. are still discernible has started me on research into vehicle markings and because the unit (HQ RE 2nd Infantry Div) is traceable, I am now reading everything I can find on the BEF campaign.

My background is motorcycles rather than military vehicles although I did run an lhd 109" series 3 Landrover for a while. It had spent it's service life as a reserve vehicle at Recklinghausen.

I am an inactive MVT member who nevertheless enjoys reading the magazine.

Is there anyone else on the forum with a special interest in 1939 / 40 British equipment ?

Rich.

(Sometimes call myself Rik as it's easier for the Flemish to pronounce).

John,

Sorry to say that the book is out of print but is not that old - published December 1994 by Cannon Publications. ISBN 1 899695 00 1

I obtained mine last year on ebay from a seller called neilsdeals. He had a supply of "new old stock" which he was releasing one at a time. Might be worth an email to see if he still has any.

It is important to differentiate between the 1994 "reprint" and the original 1971 Almark book by Peter Hodges alone. The first book was compiled while most documents were still classified and Michael Taylor's appendices are longer than the original text which means that information sometimes needs searching out.

I will give it another read and see if I can find anything else to help. Do you recall any additional details of your Dad's unit ?

My Dad was in NW Europe with 11 Air Formation Signals and has a good memory but is not and never has been a vehicle enthusiast so questions to him about vehicle markings are usually answered with a "Never paid that much attention"

By the way, which part of Surrey are you from ? I am originally from Warlingham.

I believe that the only purpose built British military outfit was the Norton Big 4.

Have a look at Rob van den Brink's excellent Website devoted to the Norton WD 16H and Big 4 - http://home.tiscali.nl/wd16h/

If you want to see what the rest of the industry was up to, you need a copy of Orchard & Madden's "British Forces Motorcycles 1925 - 45" The book is now out of print but there are rumours of a forthcoming revised edition.

I am no expert on this but I do have a copy of "British Military Markings 1939 - 1945" by Hodges & Taylor. This is by far the most detailed source that I have found.

Pioneer Corps NW Europe 1944 appear to have been a 21st Army Group Asset and would therefore have carried Blue Cross on Red as Formation Sign.

Arm of Service Flash for PC was Green over Black, horizontally divided with the usual white bar to indicate Army, Corps or GHQ troops.

The following possibilities are listed:-

White Bar diagonal, bottom to top, serial no. 761 - Army Group troops.

White Bar diagonal, top to bottom, serial no. 1610 - GHQ troops.

White Bar diagonal, bottom to top, serial no. 1611 - Army Group troops.

White Bar diagonal, bottom to top, serial no. 1821 - Army Group troops.

White Bar Horizontally Under, serial no. 2651 - Army troops.

Also listed are Pioneer Salvage Units at Corps level, carrying Unit serial no.85 in conjunction with appropriate corps insignia and presumably with the white bar above the Arm of Service flash to indicate Corps asset.

I can find no indication as to which specific units were allocated the serial no.s and it is not clear if any of these units were Canadian.

Hope this helps, if I find anything else, I will post it.