79x100

WD 16H C383081 was supplied under contract C.9681 which commenced delivery in March 1937. Originally for 1790 machines with a census number begining C373731, it was extended to 2222 motorcycles, the last of these being delivered, as far as I can see from the factory ledgers, during the early part of 1938.

These early machines carried no sump guard or pillion equipment and this one has the characteristic large Ni-Fe (Nickel Iron) battery which was specified for WD Nortons pre-war.

Genuine pre-war WD Nortons are a rarity now as the vast majority of them went to France with the regular units of the BEF.

The vast majority of ex-WD bikes have spent most of their life in civilian colour schemes. They're now being bought up and painted green in huge numbers. It seems a shame in some ways that this aspect of post-war history could become quite uncommon.

Nortons are pricey here too but of course the side-valves are pulled up by the price of the sporting models.

Huge quantities of Norton 16Hs were sent to India prior to 1939. At some points the India Office was taking more than the British War Department. They often had features which were only later to become standard on the WD models.

I've never seen an India Office Norton with upswept exhaust and rear mounted air filter. I wonder if any survive ?

The FBHVC site has copies of their newsletters and No.4 has some info over negotiations :-

http://www.fbhvc.co.uk/newsletters/index.htm

It would seem that much clarification is still needed.

I assume that you know of these people ?

http://www.autocycles.co.uk/index.htm

Otherwise, try "Old Bike Mart".

If you're looking for a project then both Netley Marsh and Beaulieu jumbles next month usually have a selection as well as Wall Auto-Wheels and Winged Wheels to fit in your own bicycle.

I'm a bit peripheral to this as I consider myself a motorcyclist first and foremost. I did run an ex-Recklinghausen stock LHD 109 for some years so I suppose that I must have a liking for military type vehicles but if I didn't have a WD Norton, I'd be more than happy with a pre-war one (Overhead camshaft please !)

I find old things in general and old vehicles in particular fascinating and I particularly like the rebuild stories like GWT's Dennis rebuild on here. Its WW1 origins add the spice but I'd still read every word if it was pre-war civvy.

I do have an interest in the history of, and immense respect for, the British army so an MV is a nice way of combining that but I could do either one without the other.

I'm not sure about the dressing up thing. I really worry that if I tried it, I'd hear my pre-war regular ex-RSM grandfather calling me a daft bugger and I respected him too much for that.

The IWM photo archive is a wonderful place but those big heavy albums make for a tiring day out.

It's a good idea to have look at the on-line archive first and also look at more recent books where the photo ref is quoted. (This wasn't the case in the 1960s and 70s). That way you'll see which series are of interest.

If you know which series of pictures you want, then you can go straight to the correct albums. You'll often find that the pictures either side are from the same assignment and from a vehicle detail point of view frequently better than the often published images.

Further to Runflat's good advice, it isn't that the prices for one-off reprints are impossibly high for smaller prints (far less than a still from British Pathé for instance) but there are so many to choose from. I set myself a £100 limit last time and stuck to it (well, almost !)

I really feel that if we wish to preserve historic military vehicles rather than just ride around in green-painted Govt. surplus then we have to learn to count rivets. Researching a vehicle is surely an integral part of the hobby ?

As far as I'm concerned, owners can stick what they like on their vehicles but displaying brings special responsibilities.

Re-enactors are heavy on their 'farbs' (but on the other hand many of then love to pretend that Chiang Jiangs are WW2 BMWs which is about the most heinous crime in my book).

I say Old Chap, Stefano and I (at least) would still really like to see some photos !

I suppose that this legislation is a consequence of international organisations dictating to us which bunches of third world retards we're allowed to sell arms and military equipment to. Logically, if the end-user is not known and the powers that be think that they can control this then they have to try to monitor everything.

I wonder if the UK is more extreme because it falls outside of the Schengen agreement and that countries inside of that zone don't have to monitor traffic within it ?

Do mainland europeans need import docs to bring MVs into the UK and if not, how do they get them out again ? Once they've been imported, that's it. They have to stay there !

My personal feeling is that a blanket exemption is needed for private property below a certain value but I can't see a logical way to draw up the rules. The intention to re-import should not be the criteria because we should all have the right to sell our own property wherever we like. The MOD has been happy enough to sell surplus stocks and now the government is applying caveats to the ownership.

As '49' says, Hodges & Taylor is your best option but because Michael Taylor's addenda are longer than Peter Hodges' original publication, it takes a long time to sort out the relevant information and there is no index.

It really is necessary to work out where in the hierarchy his unit was positioned.

My understanding of the book is as follows but no substitute for having a look yourself. It's a book to put your feet up with (but I expect that you're doing that anyway).

If he was Corps Troops then the following would seem to apply -

HQ Corps Troops REME - 70

Corps Troops Workshop - 71

If he was Armoured Division -

Armd. Bde. workshop - 99

If the vehicle was Corps Troops then the insignia should have a white band above it.

LADs used the number of the unit to which they were attached on REME colours.

An LAD attached to the LAA unit of an armoured division would have displayed 73 on Blue / Yellow / Red.

I hope this helps rather than adding to the confusion.

Let us know how you get on. Could you post the picture here ?

Rich.

Now however as the Dennis restoration approaches its completion (well maybe just another year or so to go) we ask ourselves which project next - Peerless or Thornycroft.

The Thornycroft is a great looking lorry and you're on something of a roll with quality south of England machines at the moment.

Are there any other survivors ?

I think that it is a common thing wherever older vehicles appear. My 'modern' motorcycle is only about thirty five years old and I've been modifying it (and sometimes back again) for most of that. It amuses me no end when people proudly tell me what's not 'correct' - Usually something that I've spent years working out a solution for.

The only way to beat these people is to be a better researched rivet counter.

I wouldn't usually bother to tell someone who didn't ask but the great risk wandering around a gathering is that the outraged owner crawls out of a nearby tent, having heard his machine being pulled to bits.

Just to reinforce what Stefano has said, I wouldn't even consider not stripping a gearbox on a motorcycle project. There really aren't very many parts in a four speed constant mesh box and a gearbox seizure or catastrophic failure will throw you up the road.

If you get stuck, there must be someone not too far away who knows the boxes and can help (VMCC branches are good for that sort of thing).

There is a chap in the Netherlands who stocks the Indian Dunlop Unigrips which look pretty OK

http://www.petersclassicbikeparts.nl/index1.html

Have a look under tyres on his site.

If a bolt's marked 8.8 then it's usually metric and indicates tensile strength.

Could it have been replaced ?

Has anyone talked to the Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs about this ? They are usually very quick to pick up on this sort of legislation.

Having read the government site, it seems to refer to those carrying out a business. I could see no reference to it applying to the private property of individuals.

Living abroad, I find it a bit worrying if I have to apply for an export licence every time I win an LV7 marked box of screws on eBay.

If these rules are as bad as feared and if every country in the EU were to impose these sort of export licensing requirements, much of our hobby will cease to exist.

Thanks for the correction Ivor. Mike Starmer will never forgive me for not picking up his book first.

There is a section in the 21st Army Group Administrative history which refers to piston problems with K5s in September 1944.

"© vehicle maintenance

During this intense period of activity the maintenance of vehicles inevitably had to be reduced, but partly due to the majority of vehicles being new no serious ill effects ensued. A major fault occurred in the engines of K-5 4x4, three-ton Austins, 1,400 of which, as well as all the replacement engines, were found to be defective and to have piston trouble".

Is this something that's commonly known in the Austin community and if so, what was the actual problem ? Do these duff pistons still turn up ? Was the K5 motor vastly different from others in the range ?

Hodges and Taylor in 'British Military Markings' state that coloured flashes should be the same size as the old 'Pass' plate - i.e. approx 8 1/2" x 9 1/2" high. Period photos are probably the best guide for specific vehicle types.

I have a note of census number digits on vehicles other than motorcycles being 3 1/2" high x 2" wide but I can't find the source at the moment.

Your reference to the early permits takes me back. I had a Pipe Finder licence for 'The Everyday Electronics Pipefinder' - built from plans published by them. It was all assembled around a glued plywood sandwich and mounted on a wooden broom handle ! I seem to remember the components costing about £5.

Truth to tell, it didn't function very well and was pretty well limited to finding cast iron manhole covers that I already knew were there.

I must confess to having viewed the question in terms of WW2 WD motorcycles. 20" tyres are outside of my experience and in view of the sporting and exclusive nature of the machines that they were fitted to, I would have expected that a replacement would be available if it was viable.

The semi off-road nature of 1930s WD tyres is what makes them difficult to find.

Most post-war tyres have the thin rain-water 'sipes' which make them look out of period.

Rob van den Brink's WD16H site has a page with photographs of various WD tyres.

http://www.wdnorton.nl/Tyres.htm

I have a pair of OE 1939 dated Good-Years if you want detailed photos.

In terms of British motorcycles, there is no real problem in getting tyres to fit in the 3.25 or 3.50 x 19 sizes generally found. The problem is that they generally look a bit modern and are a little too road-biased.

If you had a copy of the old Dunlop Universal or Good Year Extra Grip especially in 3.25 then I'm sure you'd have a market.

Chap on this thread took a Condor engine out for classic racing.

http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?t=10074&highlight=condor

The fast boys have blown up most of the available wide-case Ducati lumps and what most of us consider expensive, racers are quite happy to spend for a weekend riding round and round in circles.

WD B40s are a pleasant and capable bike.

There is a nice website which might go some way to explaining why there aren't many for sale. This bloke owns 'em all !

http://www.bsawdb40.com/

A CMP not identified in the caption from the IWM archive showing again the roundel on the blanking plate. Tunisia 1943.