Surveyor

Saw this on the BBC web page regarding using a Sea King as a glamping venue

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-37796466

One aspect not often thought about, we used the version sent out to the fleet and listened to the shipping forecast as well

When I was an apprentice with a Massey Ferguson distributor, we winterised combine harvesters at the end of the harvest and they guy I worked with used Shell Fusus A (my memory going back 49 years here) and drew that into the fuel system and ran it up on that. Seem to think we may have sprayed another preserving oil in the intake. Then the intake and exhaust were sealed. Fusus A was in fact the fluid used to test F.I. pumps and injectors.

 

While working for the MoD we rebuilt engines in one department and they were all test run and preserved. A lanolin based oil was sprayed in all orifices and engine sealed and pulley taped to warn not to rotate the engine. If an engine was kept in stock over a certain time, the engines had to be inspected and re-preserved, I recollect this happening on a brand new Cummins NTA engine for a Michigan, it had been in stock over the period, injectors were taken out and an endoscope used to inspect the bores.

I suppose this then asks the question what recommendations for storing a diesel engine over the winter when no intention to run it till spring

I was thinking more in terms of the Canadian government ...

 

Andy

Oh, never thought that way, I assume you know a bit about this as I don't, is it common that all buried tanks etc. still are "owned" by the country they were used by?

Lots of ideas on how to recover the tanks, But no one seems to have thought why are there tanks allegedly still buried at Dorking?, reports at the time imply the "other" tanks were dug/investigated and reburied, but why did not the Tank museum dig the others out too at the time? ..one can only assume they were found to be incomplete hulls/parts, and not worth recovering or inaccessble due to buildings/farm activities etc built over them

Did they record the position and condition of the tank?

Was going to write a bit on HASAWA, but I really cannot be bothered - far too hypothetical to get into this sort of thing.

True but if we get a procedure sorted may help with any future project, talking through things here may help.

Rick, unfortunately it is a great deal more complicated than that, I am not going to go into all the details as I would take far too much time but let me assure you that whilst you can freely buy or hire any construction machinery that you wish but to then operate that machinery on any land which is not owned by you it will cost you many thousands of pounds for the appropriate insurance, licences etc and no businessman worth his salt would let you anywhere near his property without those essentials. Sorry to pour cold water on your optimism.

Good point, may be an informal chat with HSE to start with

i'll do the recce and once the tank is out of the hole any cr@p we find that we don't want can go back in it before we fill it. (if it came out i don't see what harm we can do by putting it back where it came from). however if there is significant contamination and they want it removed then a few 1 ton bulk bags would do the job and could go on the low loader with the tank and back to my yard in manchester where i will make it disappear.

all i can say is that if someone gets me on i will be leaving with the tank

That's fair enough, hopefully that wont be needed, again thinking out loud, as we have removed a tank, not sure how many cubic metres in volume, where would we source back fill to level the site

Oh and who carries out the survey of the site will need to watch out for invasive species which may make the process cost prohibitive, Japanese Knotweed anyone

.. and also consider whether the land owner has any ownership rights over the vehicles themselves?

 

Andy

Might be an idea to get them to sign it over, then do you sign it over to the individual or a recovery team

Further episodes of Ken's life will now be further delayed as he has departed for points South to visit his sister and a number of other people, there is no definite date for his return.

Thanks for the update, look forward in anticipation

i know i'm an optomist and always see things as fairly straight forward so bear with me but why do we need any health and safety or insurance or any other cr@p. we aren't professionals and there won't be a crowd milling about spectating. i don't see a problem with us getting the permissions and i'm sure the location of at least one tank has already been ascertained. i reckon a recovery would take the following order

 

1. get permission and tank location (might only take one phone call)

2. physical recce with digging equipment to find the tank and it's depth and orientation in the ground and come up with recovery plan.

3. go back with digger and whatever else was deemed necessary then dig it out and load it up

4. make good the groundworks and head off into the sunset

 

doesn't need to be any more complicated than that

Can be but thinking out load, what about oils still on board, need a wash down area so that no pollution, could be only dirt and can go back in the excavation.

Risk assessment would be an idea if people complain to the Health and Safety, also do we assume there could be ordnance still on board, just thinking of some jobs where we had bomb disposal on site in case we found some thing.

Also would suggest needed for the extraction, hopefully recce would find out if we needed a ramp or could lift out, lifting out could mean trying to loosen sticky mud underneath

-------------

 

You forgot the all important ' Risk Assessment(s) ' + line of supervision (the ultimate person to blame) ,,

True, also need to know ground conditions in case pumping of ground water or ground unstable, the list may go on and on

Presumably along these lines...

 

Approach Land Owner - find out if there are plans to recover the vehicles, If not, find out if they would support a plan.

 

This would best be managed through any intermediary who may have greater influence over the persons you need to deal with - a friendly call is always better than a cold-calling stranger (and face to face if possible).

 

The land owner would presumably want to know what you intend doing with whatever you recover, and what you will do to restore the mess created to their property in the process, if there is anything "in it for them".

 

IF then you get a green light to proceed, you'd need to plan the who, what, when, how etc, for which no doubt several site surveys would be required - to pinpoint the location, to address plant access routes, any required facilities (Jet Wash/Toilets/Canteen/Car Parking etc), then cover insurance and costs.

 

Such that Rick can then roll up with the kit, dig the hole, drag out the wrecks, load them up, backfill the hole, make good to whatever the landowner has requested, then go home.

 

I'd be happy to consider a small project like this, but am also at the wrong end of the country to make it a realistic proposal... it needs someone local to the site to manage it.

 

Am sure there are other elements which also need to be considered and this is probably a very simplistic view.

 

Tim

Yes, thinking onwards locating the object will be the main challenge, as volunteers getting a loan of things like ground radar could be expensive unless can persuade a university or company to donate. Trial holes may also be needed to check location.

It does get interesting to think about it, don't want a repeat of the Polish Nazi Gold Train

i have a 65 ton foden and 38 ton low loader bought to do just this type of thing, i am also toying with the idea of buying a 22 ton digger. i am more than capable of digging and recovering a tank in a day with this kit, i just struggle with the paperwork and organisation, i'm also currently trying to recover/chasing 4 other ww2 tanks which takes a lot of time and energy.

 

is anyone else willing to do the leg work. if so and we can gain the permissions needed from the people that own the land then i will commit to recovering it!

 

who else wants to preserve our armoured heritage.

It sounds as though you have done this before, do you have a indication of what is involved? as I may be interested

I run my Land Rover up every two weeks; either in the garage or take it for a run (which I know is not an option for you now).

Many thanks, roughly how long would you leave it running on the drive?

If its only standing for a few months rather than years a diesel engine is probably just best left alone, unlike a petrol engine, running it up stationary for a short time will probably do more harm than good. Put the battery on charge occasionally

any thanks, strangely the insurance company admitted liability this morning so hopefully the question is now not relevant

Having had a "gentleman" hit me in the rear, my land rover is off the road till the insurance decide to sort it out. The vehicle is drivable.

Prior to the incident all filters were changed, oil, fuel and air it also drove 600 miles round trip.

It is now parked up, battery disconnected.

The engine is a 2.5 diesel

The questions are what time frame should I start the engine and for how long should I let it run.

I do not intend to take it on the road until insurance sorted.

Yup a mechanical idiot asking.

I the uk you can only tow one trailer at a time you can only tow more than one at a time if you are Licence as a showman i.e fair ground or circus you have to apply for this and there are certain restrictions.

Thought as much, but wanted to check with those more knowledgeable than me

Not sure why I thought of this, I have been watching "outback truckers", in the United Kingdom what are the rules on number of trailers allowed to be towed, I have seen the fair ground lorries and they seem to tow two if you include the articulated trailer

Thank you Snort and Richard, having returned from the pub suitably refreshed and having re read the thread I was embarrassed to read my own post and immediately spot the stupid mistakes.Having read it through originally before pressing the post button I realised how much my mind and concentration had wandered whilst composing the post. My apologies and I hope I haven't missed any more stupid errors and that the post now makes a little more sense.I will definitely continue with the thread as soon as possible if only for my own interest in Ken's story but obviously it will depend on when we can find a mutually acceptable time to meet for what I envisage will take several hours. Any suggestions as to the best type of small and hopefully cheap recorder to buy and the best supplier of same will be gratefully received as my knowledge of any recording equipment available after the mid 1960's can be summed up in two words, first word four letters beginning with F second word three letters ending with L:laugh:

Don't worry about it, you should see some of my posts with mistakes, beginning to rely on the red underscore to much.

A suggestion which I would commend to all members who are taking these kind of information is after posting them to put them together as a PDF

sounds painful

Wonder if that's a Freudian slip?

Was so chuffed it worked never noticed spelling

Gents

Was down at the garage first thing this morning with out the trailer, put tit in a vice pulled slightly, checked with a square now 90 degrees as the drawing shows, the thing fits.

There is a little bit of a fiddle but that's how they were on the ones in the factory, just a slight tweak on the part under the piston and it should be perfect

We used AFFF on the ship, managed to find this image of the set up for AFFF, II seem to recall on the fire ground it was diluted with OX blood.

The branch was fitted at the hydrant to save lugging the barrels around. The foam making fitting also had an adaptor to connect to the pipe which went to the barrel which was never used on ship

The picture was off the net, never had pictures of the set up on site as when on the ground was renewing sea fire fighting ticket, full BA as well

Never was sure following training who would connect foam at the discharge point

If you are thinking into a hard surface like brick, we still use a metal clip which wraps around the wire and held by a screw into a rawplug.

I have seen metal clips holding them to a wire tray in the war cabinet rooms at white hall.

What are you looking at for the element which is holding the wires