10FM68

I don't know whether this photo is of any interest. Photo courtesy Flickr. Captioned: Gen. H. S. Sayler, chief ordnance officer, Etousa, congratulates Col. B. Masik, in charge of assembly Plant at Cherbourg. The vehicle in background was assembled at Cherbourg from parts shipped directly from the USA troops landed at 0300 hours on a monday and completed first vehicle at 1200 hours the next day. 25/07/44

No, I don't think I'd bother buying one even if I had a Series 3 LWB to put it in. I never saw anyone use one, they were just 'there' and other things were stuffed in them, as I said earlier. The long legged ones seem even more clumsy nd would certainly get in the way of anything else you wihed to put between the front seats. I suspect they were all gone by the time the Series land Rovers went out of service as, by that time, the SA80 was in service and the racks for those took upp the space between the front seats. Can you remember when, and on perhaps which, Land Rover the rifle clips mounted on the dashboard were last used? I can remember them, but from a long time ago - must have been Series 2A of some sort - probably when I was doing my radio user training in about 1976. A memorable exercise I recall when one of our number had an accident and actually came up on the net to say, 'I've turned the Rover over, over!'

As I recall, MT drivers of all types (and I presume this would include AFV crewmen) wore standard leather-soled boots but without the additional studs. But, in those days, studded leather soled shoes and boots were the thing - everyone wore them so they just got used to it. Probably slipped over and barked their shins more than we did with rubber soles and, of course, made a lot more noise running around. German boots, in particular, seemed very heavily studded. Your recollection of the sudden fashion for US boots strikes a chord with me. I fell victim! For some reason, I can't remember what now, I found myself at a US base and was persuaded to bu a pair of, the then extremely fashionable, paratroop boots. You'll remember them, Im sure - rather pronounced toecaps with a set of decorative holes along the stitching. They were quite thin leather - though a highboot, of course - and had stitched on soles with a very insignificant tread. Well, you couldn't stand up in them on wet grass and the slightest damp and your feet were wet! I didn't keep them long! The US shirt, however, was a different matter - very comfortable and warm under combats! Oh, by the way, I think the early rubber-soled boots in the British Army, as issued to paras forst off, I believe, had rather squashy 'crepe' rubber soles like desert boots. Probably nice and quiet, good in the dry, but lethal in the wet. There's a photo of them in , I think, George Forty's book on the British Army.

Yes, but he also says it's for a Lightweight and I never saw one on a Lightweight.

Well, hip revision op tomorrow week, so, if everything's successful, I'll climb the Fan later this summer! You coming?

Yep, that's the type I remember; as you say, without the legs. Or, indeed, without the rifle clips.

Morning, Clive. Any snow where you are? Only up on the tops here and quite sunny! Thanks for that photo - bizarre isn't it? I can't quite see the attraction of having a jerrican stuck up in the middle like that, I must say! But it is strange that the cutaway rear side panels to provide for jerrican stowage on LWB Land Rovers took so long to be adopted given the obvious space just dying to be used from the outset. As you know, quite a few units permitted the insertion of stowage boxes there long before they became part of the specification. I wonder whether any other units followed the SAS practice of having 1 gallon oil tins mounted under the bonnet as, at least some of, the PPs had.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/153451400040 Here you go. This is more or less what it was, though this one is for a Series 2 with built-in rifle rack. The Series 3 ones didn't have that because, of course, by then, the rifle holders were of a different pattern. The rubber strips were on the base to stop the can rattling. I don't remember the legs either - I think, but don't quote me, the Series 3 ones were attached to the bulkhead rather than to the seat box. But they were certainly a factory fit because I remember seeing one on a new issue Land Rover which is when I wondered what it was. Not sure it's worth the price, mind!

I don't think so. As I recall, this jerrican holder appeared only on the Series 3. My memory isn't that brilliant, but I can't remember it on the earlier models, but most of my service was on Series 3 and later and nothing before 2As. And I recall wondering what it was when I frst encountered it - again, suggesting it was novel for the Series 3. But I don't think there would be any arrangement in a British military Land Rover for any 'half jerricans" - they weren't issued. There were the full fat 4 1/2 gallon (20l) ones and then you were into thin-walled gallon cans for oil. By this stage the earlier 2-gallon cans with the diagonal handle and the brass screw cap had gone out of service. It isn't an unorthodox fitment. The securing 'thingy' is very probably a carry-over from earlier fittings on the tub side of the bulkhead on GS vehicles (not on FFRs, of course, because the radio trays were fitted there). I presume any remaining ones were removed once the SA80 rifle fittings were fitted in their place.

On another occasion at Casterley, with a training squad from 3TRRE we were setting off various demolition charges using PE, a Bangalore torpedo, an improvised one out of 6’ pickets and, of course, a Mk7 AT mine. As can so often happen, one ‘bang’ dislodges one of the others which then fails to detonate. On this occasion there were to be 8 ‘bangs’. 6 occurred, there was a pause, then another. ‘Oh dear’, only 7 of the 8 had gone off. On these occasions it is always the responsibility of the officer to go and find out what happened and put it right. Inevitably, the young sappers are rather hoping something dramatic will befall him (with seriousness depending on their ghoulishness and his popularity) and so are watching with intense interest from the 1000m point as ‘Troopy’ sets off with his ‘blinds box’ to do the dirty. Anyway, he gets down to the dems pit to discover that, what had happened was the charge inside the fuse well of the Mk7 hadn’t set off the main charge but had simply exploded upwards, leaving a hot and smoky, but otherwise unscathed, anti-tank mine. So, our gallant young subaltern gets a bit of plastic explosive and a detonator out of his blinds box and makes up a charge to finish the job. Now, he’s a tidy sort of chap (a Virgo in astrological terms) so likes to keep things organised: he has a short bit of safety fuse which is, really, too short, or a long piece which would need cutting, leaving him afterwards with two short pieces. So, he decides he’ll keep the long piece for another day and use up the short piece, but, not to worry, yes, it will go off before he gets back to the safety point, but he’ll be far enough away for that to be of no consequence! He lights the fuse, packs up his box and scrambles out of the pit to walk nonchalantly back to the rest of the Troop. Or, at least, that is what is supposed to happen. What actually happens is that he gets to the rim of the pit which is deep, steep and slimy chalk, and then… loses his footing and slips all the way back down into the pit ending up not far from the fizzing fuse on the mine! This is not good news. Now, it is absolutely NOT the done thing EVER to run on a demolition range – extremely bad form! But, on this occasion, the young fella, after a quick glance at the mine, realises he has seconds to get clear. He grabs his box, grabs his beret (I said he was a tidy chap) and comes out of that pit like a bullet! Clearing the lip of the pit he throws himself to the ground covering his head with his blinds box (not that that would do much good as it is nothing more than a small, tin ammo box, just as .... Back at the safety point all are watching, seeing nothing until the Troop Commander suddenly appears over the lip of the pit like a cork from a champagne bottle. Now, the Troop Staff Sergeant was tall, gaunt, extremely cool and the spitting image of Lee Van Cleef in one of the Spaghetti Westerns (and I think he rather knew that and developed the persona just a bit). He is standing, steady on his feet with a small cigar in his mouth. One of the young sappers, well aware of the rules and seeing the Troop Commander clearly disregarding them at some speed, calls out, “Why’s he running, Staff?” With that there’s a bloody great bang and about half a ton of chalk rises high into the air and, coming down, much of it lands on top of Troopy. Staff takes his cigar out of his mouth and says, laconically, “That’s why he’s running, son!” Happy to say, Troopy, pride notwithstanding, was undamaged and all had a more interesting tale of the day to tell their friends in the NAAFI that evening!

Yes, it was. It certainly wasn't for a radio - there was all the dexion and gubbins in the back for that. I agree that it was an awkward place to put a jerrican, but, when you're already sitting on a petrol tank, I don't suppose having another 4 1/2 gallons next to you is much of an issue, particularly as a jerrican is a very secure and robust means of carrying fuel! Though, of course, you could put a water jerrican there instead. But, as I said, I never saw it used for a jerrican - most Land Rovers had trailers and the jerricans, of petrol, (later diesel) water and kerosene (for the Aladdin stoves which were then issued) used to be put in there - out of the way. As for the Champ, I don't think there was any specific limitation as to what the jerrican at the rear carried - petrol would have made sense as most military vehicles were expected to have a reserve of fuel onboard somewhere and this would have been a carry-over from the Jeep. The only one where it seems always to be consistently water rather than fuel is on the back of Centurion turrets, but that makes sense as a jerrican isn't going to be much use as a reserve of petrol for one of those and water close at hand for a brew would be useful.

It does look a bit cocked up, certainly. I never quite understood why that feature was introduced on Series 3 Land Rovers - nor why it had such a complicated fixing arrangement at the top - I never saw one actually used to hold a jerrican - it was just in the way. The holder was more usually the repository of the works ticket and the driver's pullover!

Yes, I have spent a few draughty and damp days up at Casterley! One particular occasion I recall - the civilian Bedford drivers used to refuse to go into the safety trench when we did the firing - they preferred to sit in their cabs eating their sandwiches. They'd 'seen it all before' and, being 1000m away, were perfectly safe - taking cover was only for wimps and those who had to do as they were told. Anyway, on this occasion a Mk7 underneath the remains of a Ferret went off. A small black dot appeared in the distance. above the dems pit. It grew bigger and bigger as we watched it - and as it headed towards the Bedfords. In seconds, the drivers were out of their cabs and running like hell as a piece of armour plate, probably about a metre across, came spinning just over the top of one of the Bedfords with a sound like an express train and eventually came to ground several hundred yards further on! I think one of the drivers even spilled his tea!

Not London buses, but you wait a long time then two turn up at once. This picture is of a Morris 1100 MkII at Checkpoint Charlie, Berlin with a captain and a sergeant from the Coldstream Guards. The car is, I suspect, from the Brigade Tpt Coy RCT (it's post-1965) 21 on blue/yellow. Picture was on Pinterest with no credits.

So, we're into XK - not many more to go!

http://www.brixmis.co.uk/ Here's a relevant link for BRIXMIS, their cars, Opels, VWs G Wagens, etc and, in a nice link to the other recent thread, mention of their first tour vehicles - Humber FWDs painted maroon!

Thank you for digging these out, and very German 'Js' they are too! What a fascinating collection of photos. I had seen the Jeep photos before, but not the VW ones. Interestingly, the Military Police and their RAF equivalent were very keen on being photographed weren't they! By proportion, there must be more photos of Service police vehicles about than those of any other branch.

Thanks for that, I must say, I had forgotten that he had two! I presume one ended up at Beverley as it remained 'on the books' well after the war as 16YF67.

I know that was the case after the war, but Monty had his gloss black Roller during the war (it was a gift, apparently). But I was just wondering about the gloss black being used by the RMP on their Mungas and Land Rovers in Berlin. And thank you for the extract from Equipment Regulations 1959 - but, I bet there are exceptions - again, has anyone a photo of any 'X' reg after XH?

I have the Chilwell list for WW2 from 1945, but are later ones available commercially?

I have looked again at the photo and according to the chap who submitted it - Eric Heath who was with 2 Div Pro Coy at the time stationed at Bunde, it was a fore-runner of the 'White Mice' - a SOXMIS chase car. I'm slightly intrigued by the fact that RMP vehicles in Berlin were gloss black. I read somewhere that when Monty used his Rolls Royce (rather than his Humber), which was, of course, gloss black and highly polished, his RMP escort Jeeps were also gloss black. Certainly a possibility and may be the origins of the tradition. Of course, Monty wasn't based in Berlin, he was in Bad Oeynhausen, so I might be adrift with that. Does anyone else know?

According to a list I have --XG-- was used by the CWGC on the continent - whether exclusively in Germany or not, I don't know. I have no photos going beyond XH, but the list claims that it went up to XL and then was gapped until XZ. The Range Rovers which BRIXMIS used before the G Wagens retired to Depot INT CORPS at Ashford where they were used for training. I don't think the G Wagens were - perhaps they were disposed of locally, (though one ended up in the museum).

Here's another interesting photo of an Opel on the strength of 2 Div Pro Coy, this time a tourer. Note the --XB-- ERM. Again, another photo from BAOR Locations. It is interesting as this vehicle clearly isn't being used in Berlin or by the Berlin Brigade so, I presume, as this predates the end of the 'Occupation' of Germany - pre-Bundeswehr, etc, then, if a vehicle was bought locally it received an --X?-- ERM. Perhaps, Wally, you can add to that? It is well before my time.

Yep, I bet you're right. When I looked at the photo, I thought to myself then, if I write Opel, it'll be a Ford and vice versa. If you look carefully at the grille, I think it says Kapitan on it, but why there is no Opel (or Ford!!) badge, I don't know. I expect it had an uprated engine like the RMP 'White Mice' - the Opels they used for following SOXMIS, or, indeed, the BRIXMIS Opels. It might even be a 'retired White Mouse' enjoying a second, and less demanding, life.

It was all to do with paying for the 'forces of occupation', I understand. By this time, West Germany was simply a NATO member and BAOR was part of the NATO force, but Berlin was different - there, still, the USA, France, the Soviet Union and the UK were Occupying Powers. Nor was the Berlin Brigade part of BAOR. Anyway, the costs of the garrison, therefore, were paid for, as reparations, by the Federal Government - the British Army referred to it as 'the Berlin Budget'. The result was, of course, that the Germans supplied the Berlin Brigade where they could with German-sourced vehicles - the VWs, the Mungas, Mercs, Unimogs, Magirus Deutz and so on. All this stuff had the --X?-- ERM. The other anomaly was British kit used by HQ NORTHAG at Rheindahlen - their stuff carried Bundeswehr-style ERMs, but, instead of a Y prefix had an X, if I remember rightly. There was a similar arrangement at the NATO HQs in Bruunsum as I remember as well. As you say, though, am sure there were plently of anomalies - there always are with large organisations. Incidentally - yesterday I came across an old visitors' guidebook for the Museum of Army Transport at Beverley - an interesting read, I'd forgotten I had it.