draganm

wow, what a tremendous loss to have all those things scattered. Can you imagine how many thousands of hours were spent gathering all those small things and setting them up in dioramas? I've never seen that anywhere before to that extent, where every vehicle and display wasn't just sitting there but painstakingly built up to give you a little glimpse of what the soldiers saw. My goodness there's even walls and parts of buildings

 

Hopefully the bulk of it will go to a single collector who can re-create some of it (small chance I know)

 

Looks like the PzIV is already gone too?

well based on what that article implies, and what another one I read stated(as well as the Wikipedia article), the original armor was simply prone to corrosion stress cracking and they re-formulated it in 1978. Even the article you linked to states at the beginning that welding should be a last resort after all other methods have been considered. Added all up it implies that welding this stuff is a hat-trick IMHO.

 

To reduce weight, AL alloy armour - using AA7017 made to Alcan E74S specification (Al + Zn 3.9; Mn 2.6) - was originally selected instead of steel; research revealed that it provided greater protection from artillery shell-splinters because of its areal density.^[3] However, this alloy suffered from stress corrosion cracking over time, especially around the gun mantlets of the Scimitar, and an improved specification armour (AA1707 made to MVEE-1318B with strict quality control) was fitted from 1978.

 

(

I've got a miller Dynasty so I'm pretty set for a TIG welder. Apparently, armour is a bit unusual in that preheat is normally contraindicated due to the particulars of the alloy and the softening effect, they recommend buttering as a solution to face cracking.

 

I found a somewhat useful guide for MIG welding but still nothing useful for TIG using these alloys.

 

I've never done MIG, so can't comment, but I believe MIG is almost always DCRP in order to melt the filler wire. Their instructions to start with base metal at room temperature and run 400 amps thru the torch + 99% pure Argon is interesting . If this is done, wouldn't the surrounding base metal quickly exceed well above 400F regardless from the high conductivity of AL? I know when I got done, my part was too hot to touch for 2+ hours, but it didn't leak under pressure and that's what I was after.

 

My old TIG only goes 320 amps regardless, A Miller Dynasty TIG that can crank out 400+ amps is the 700 model at around $12K.

 

(

Normally for heavy Al repair Helium or He/Ar does a better job of energy transfer and one can use DC TIG with proper cleaning to dump double the heat as balanced AC but I just don't know in this case.

I only tried TIG DCSP once on AL just out of Curiosity. What I remember is I could see the layer of Oxide floating on top like a crust, while the metal underneath liquefied and then dripped or sagged down. What they taught me in school was that the purpose of the AC wave was break/shatter the oxide layer and that allows you to weld the metal underneath. The only problem I have is my old machine does not have adjustable AC frequency control, the AC is rather slow and you can hear it slowly crackling whereas on the new machines it's so fast it sounds like a high pitched buzzing. The end result Is I have to use more power than I would under ideal conditions, but at least I have the square wave that keeps the arc fairly stable.

Have not tried Helium mixes either but from what I remember the HE gives you a wider and shallower weld puddle for thinner sections?

 

Anyway, I don't consider myself a professional welder by any circumstances . I just do it because I have to as part of my job. Thankfully AL is typically not on the menu and it's always a little stressful. I could have 2 or 3 days machining time to create my parts, and then in the welding booth I will either finish the job in an hour or 2 or possibly wind up with a pile of garbage that sends me back to the mills and lathes for round 2. That's more excitement than I typically crave

 

Let us know how you make out on the 7017, it should be an interesting experience.

I have TIG wleded a fair amount of AL lately, not 7XXX series, 6061, but the same principles apply. First and foremost, pre-heat is a must to around 400F or you will get cold-cracking as soon as you move the weld puddle . Even with pre-heat, I was pushing well over 250 amps into it at first on 1/4" material , then backing the pedal off as the material heats up.

I used an 1/8" Zirconiated rod, 1/2" lens(cup) and pure Argon. A water cooled torch is a must, as well as a high frequency over-lapping square wave on the AC setting. If you can find a machine with adjustable HF then all the better although your into a pretty expensive welder at this point.

 

I also would not use old material as filler, filler rod for TIG is specially formulated and typically differs from the base metal a little, usually the addition of some alloying agent, 1% of this or that. This is to prevent corrosive stress cracking, an example would be 300 series stainless where they add 1% titanium, etc.

 

Your biggest problem will be getting all the surrounding metal hot enough so it doesn't suck all the heat out of your weld, especially with pieces that big. Anything you can remove from the surrounding structure will help here.

can any of our Polish friends translate what they're talking about ?

 

When it comes to bricked-off sections of old bunkers , is that even war-time? Seems like the bricked off parts were done post-war to keep locals out of dangerous unfinished or unstable construction?

what the hell is going on Poland anyway, they were supposed to start digging a month ago?

 

I'm starting to think they're not really serious about this and are just milking tourist dollars. :-D

Have you heard the story that they had to keep opening the torpedo nets on Loch Ness every night to let Nessie in and out - usually just before bed time. It's true, I heard it from a man in Torquay whose father was the lighthouse keeper near the loch.

 

trevor

not surprising, how would you like to swim around the same ole Loch for 500 years. Pretty boring I imagine. Gotta get out and party with all the other sea monsters once in a while, come home loaded at 2AM with your panties on backwards. Or was that an old Girlfriend? Hmmm, not sure, memories a little faded now :-D

 

This however, should be excavated any day now

looks like prices have gone up since 2014 ?

 

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alrighty, looks like we have Burma Spitfire fans here Hope it's true too, and maybe someday we'll find out if they move the airport or runway. It's obvious a lot of stuff was dumped in the Ocean, and I hadn't heard the story of the catapult tests but it's not a surprise either..

 

I think the Polish possibilities, in terms of finding/recovering something, are a little better though. Although the long article I linked to earlier talked about the Russians literally scouring Eastern Europe for looted Nazi stuff.

 

I'm not expecting the amber room, Nuclear war-heads, or Nazi flying saucers, but relics of any kind would be cool. Hell at this point even pictures of a dig would be ok.

the problem with the Burma Spitfires is that story never made any sense to begin with. Brand new, as well as used, aircraft after the war were sold to various countries who then used them to have more little wars. There's very few cases where equipment was dumped or buried, and even then it wasn't something as valuable as aircraft ( except for the Saigon evacuation and that was to make room for refugee's).

well since we're on the topic of tanks that appeared in Movies starting with the the Letters Fur , I found this video on one of the Fury Shermans. I thought this was CGI, but they used an actual Sherman during the opening Tiger ambush, and blew off a Fiberglass turret.

Tank later restored

parts one and 2

 

The 'expert' is 'quite certain' that the amber room is there. What happened to the crated spit fires in Borneo, they were 'quite certain' they were there. what ever happened to just shutting your mouth until you find something. A bit like the random guy that tells me, every time I take out an FV onto the road, that he is going to build one. Just shut your mouth and do it. Too much talking in this world.

I suspect that these guys don't have the money to fund a large dig, or permission fromthe government. They have to try and whip up excitement from the public and pressure local authorities to either drop the coin or even simply allow it to happen.

At least how it looks IMO

looks like we might have 2 excavations this summer

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/11/world/what-in-the-world/could-long-lost-amber-room-be-stashed-under-a-nazi-bunker-in-poland.html?_r=0

ok, I looked it up and I actually saw that one at a friends house FF no. 6. I think I might have seen one other of the what, 8 movies?

 

Other than the tank, the movies were so terrible I completely blocked it from my memory.

 

According to this clip , it's a "Chieftain WW2 tank" , that first went into production in 1966

 

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/video/set-fast-furious-6-they-499315

DOH, boy do i feel stupid. :red: time for another cup of coffee

 

Fast and Furious was a car movie no? Don't recall any tanks.

One was on Milweb for a while, I don't know if it ever sold.

 

Andy

yes I think your right, there were 3 real Sherman's used, both early war and late war models. Someone must have bought 1 of the other 2 for it's provenance, although the movie was a little on the goofy side with the bumper-car tank battle and the last-stand scene especially .

DOH, Fast and Fury'ous is not Fury :-X

looks like a fake, the originals have very crisp lines and excellent detail, I mean they're German right. :cheesy:

 

Yours is ill-defined and blurry, a lot of these were made in the 50's.

 

This below is likely an original, being offered by a dealer. Look at how detailed the relief is and how much the tank pops up at you from the back . Also, the numbered section is a separate piece, which makes sense. You would cast one badge to save resources, then drop in a small numbered piece for 25,50, 100. Again, very efficient and German.

 

http://www.emedals.com/europe/germany/third-reich-army-badges/tank-badge/a-recovered-tank-badge-special-grade-25-by-gustav-brehmer

 

best place to look is the "surviving panzers" website. They have all the Churchill's (and everything else) there in PDF format that is regularly updated.

 

The chances of his particular vehicle surviving are very slim, and the chances of any original war time paint or markings even less so, but it doesn't hurt to look.

 

By the time restorers got to these (starting in the 1980's?), most were ins crap yards or on firing ranges.

He then directed the following comments to my daughter. "Tell your dad he is a fool, a b****y fool, a complete idiot for buying this load of rubbish. If he wants a real American car he should buy a Firebird or a Corvette" and then walked off.

Congratulations to you sir, for not punching that asshole in the mouth and knocking a few teeth loose. IT would not have been worth a trip to the city jail and lawsuit, but man oh man, did he deserve it.

Reminds me of a guy walked up to my 72 Challenger right after I finished it. He whistles and says, "Man, I would steal that in a heart-beat"

I told him, "it's a nice car but it's not worth dying for".

this could be the biggest expense to undo, including cost of finding another Continental radial to replace it. While this diesel probably kept the vehicle functional and saved it from the scrap yard, the location and install completely ruins it's authenticity as an amphibious troop landing craft in a historical perspective.

 

Any ideas how much restoration would cost in terms of man hours and parts? I assume someone would need a restoration budget the size of a small army, and wondering how much the finished/restored version is fetching?

 

Seems like a great project, hopefully it will not go to a scrapper.

depends on how far you wanted to take it. If the vehicle really did run 6 years ago, then to just get it running again, remove all those rubber bumpers, strip it and paint it in war time colors, could be less than $10K if you got lucky with the mechanicals.

 

To bring it back to 100% correct war time condition with all the correct little bits and pieces, correct engine, some decommissioned defensive weaponry, gun shields, get the rear doors working and water tight,.......... tens of thousands IMO.

 

Here, just for fun, at the 32 minute mark is an interesting one in running, war time condition with working ramp

 

 

edit: oops, mark V Panther

 

here's something you never see ,asking price of $20K seems reasonable if you consider the rarity

 

http://relicsww2.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=63&product_id=378&sort=p.price&order=DESC

 

 

 

 

wow, last one I remember seeing was one that Bruce Crompton went to Australia to buy. Although I imagine the post-war modifications on this one would be pricey to undo, the bid of $560. seems really low? I mean it's a complete running war time tracked vehicle no?

I would expect many a pacific war museum to be fighting over this model is the one that fought on Saipan

 

from Wiki

 

LVT-4 Water Buffalo, British designation Buffalo IV (1943)

 

FMC modified an LVT-2 in August 1943 by moving the engine forward and adding a large ramp door in the rear,^[7] allowing troops to exit from the rear of the vehicle. Capacity went from 16 in the LVT-2 to 30 making earlier LVTs largely obsolete. This innovation also greatly facilitated the loading and unloading of cargo. Some vehicles received armor kits. It was by far the most numerous version of the LVT, with 8,351 units delivered. US Army received 6,083 and British Army 500. Many of the British LVT versions were armed with a 20 mm Polsten cannon and 2 × .30 in (7.62 mm) Browning machine guns.

 

Since no major changes were made to the engine and transmission of the LVT-2 the LVT-4 was completed much quicker than the LVT-3, with the first machines going into action at Saipan in June 1944.

I know pics can be deceiving, and that sheet-metal can be very strong after acquiring a designed shape from a brake-roll or bending-brake, but the suspension blocks do look a bit fragile for such a heavy vehicle. Roughly 4 tons per assembly.

 

Any history of these failing or developing cracks ?

 

Just wondering because the ongoing Nashorn restoration (Pz IV chassis) had one of it's blocks busted in half.

 

Looking great though, eager to seeing the rolling chassis (on both)

This is all very well and good but a lot of people don't want or don't like Facebook, which means they cannot see the photos. (and for very good reasons they may not wish to have a Facebook account.

 

It would be much preferable if interesting photos were posted on here.

 

Diana

totally agree about FB, mark Zuckerburgs Evil empire will not be marketing to me and I don't have an account there, but you don't need one to follow a restoration. I am constantly having to use a blocker to get rid of their

"Log in NOW!" Pop-up , and that's a major PITA.

Unfortunately, people have chosen it as their preferred photo blog engine. Wouldn't have been my first choice but it is what it is.:-|