draganm

282 T55's

http://www.themalaymailonline.com/features/article/soviet-era-tank-anyone-serbia-auctions-off-army-surplus

I think the real opportunity here is to make contacts that might eventually lead to all the Hellcats, Sherman tanks, and other WW2 gear sitting out and rotting away in various lots and yards , but for now this might be a neat pile to sift thru

As far as i can tell, one of only 2 Raupenschlepper RSG in the world, and it's for sale. Considering the price of German vehicles, seems like a bargain for $55K ?

http://www.armyjeeps.net/1944German%20Tractor/index.htm

nice, even the clutch and spark plug wires.

BTW, that thread in the War Relics Forum is 125 pages long. I haven't looked at all of it since it started in 2009 and the last post was Feb. of this year, but most of the stuff they're digging up is personal items, rings, helmets, cantenes, belt buckles. etc. They also digging up a lot of human remains, not sure how I fell about that.

There's been some arguing i n the thread, some are calling it plain old grave robbing. Others are approving of the fact that their is purportedly some effort being made to repatriate the remains.

What do you guys think?

:wow: Is right! Where/when was that taken? Matt

From WHO

The SS Division “Nord” was a German army unit of the Waffen-SS. It was formed as SS-Kampfgruppe “Nord” in February 1941 in Norway but it was turned into a division in September 1941.

 

The division was composed of SS men used for garrison duties in Norway. It was transferred to Finnish Lapland prior to Operation Barbarossa as part of the German XXXVI Corps under AOK Norwegen. In July 1941 the division took part in Operation Silberfuchs with the German 169th Division and the Finnish 6th Division. Due to lack of training the soldiers were routed in the first attack against the Soviet forces at Salla.

 

 

 

 

The division was later attached to the Finnish III Corps operating in the Kiestinki area.

In September 1942 the division was renamed as the SS Gebirgs Division “Nord” (SS Mountain Division “the North”) and in October 1943 finally as the 6th SS Gebirgs Division “Nord”.

In 1944 the division took part in the Lapland War against Finland. After pulling out of Finland the division was transferred to Denmark and later to Germany. The division surrendered in May 1945 to US forces in Bavaria. All images come from the excellent forum www.warrelics.eu make sure you check them out!

 

 

 

Step 1: drink few shots ov vodka vid de comrads.

Step 2: go for draiv in tank

Step 3: see trailer, think of vooman next door name Nadya.

Step 4: mount trailer like mount Nadya, poke first, think last.

Step 5: fall off trailer, hit head, must have more vodka for headache.

I got to drive a 2s3 after the gulf war and was quite impressed, loads of power and good maneuverability they also thoughtfully put the operating instructions in English. however it doesn't seem to have done any good for that fella

any chance that driver walked away from that roll-over? Seems like the insides of AFV's are dangerous under the best of circumstances.

well it makes perfect sense to share a chassis along an entire line of vehicles, huge cost savings in tooling and production lines. The fact that they were able to do it across such a large line of vehicles, both wheeled and tracked is surprising though, no doubt.

What intrigues me , is the survival capsule , some sort of rocket ejector mechanism (possibly fired a fraction before impact, super air-bag style) or surrounded by nicked Chobham armour. Doubtfull that this capsule is a hoax LoL

I think by crew survival capsule what they're trying to address is the tendency of the stored main-gun ammunition lightning off and killing the crew. This was reportedly a big problem on the T72 in the middle east, although any tank is prone to it. By having the auto-loaded ammo in an unoccupied turret and putting the crew in a separate armored compartment the safety/survival rate for them increases tremendously.

looks like a piece of crap to me. jazzed up T80 with a bit of bolt on armour.

The T64-T80 were really Ukranian products, seems unlikely they would have copied that old design. Reportedly the chassis a is a new universal platform that will be the basis for an entire series of vehicles. I don't see that it matters anyway, as with any new modern platform, it's just a shell with Torsion bars and wheels . The difference is in what you put on top IMO.

You have to admit that a full automated turret devoid of human occupants is a pretty radical step forward no?

I'm sure I read somewhere that the claim of a 2-man crew actually came about because of an error or mis-translation, but typically I can't find anything now to back that up, so it might well be total bollards on my part!

Nice to see from the video that we can all still sleep soundly in our beds for a little while longer before the hordes descend...

it's brilliant really. At first I thought this was something unique but it appears,( and I had no idea) the Germans actually used captured Bren/Universal carrier parts like this in 1942 to make the first few conversions and then started manufacturing them

Seems like it would be expensive today unless you had 2 wrecked Bren chassis's (since you need 2 to get 4 of the double -bogey's)

Conditions on the Eastern Front, where already poor roads turned to seas of mud during rainy seasons and slush in the spring thaw, created almost impossible transportation situations for the wheeled truck units of the German army. The Maultier (Mule) reportedly originated from a field modification carried-out by the 2nd SS Panzer Division “Das Reich” during the winter of 1941-1942. A standard Ford 3-ton V3000S 4x2 truck was used as the basis of the conversion along with sets of Carden-Loyd tracks and bogey-wheel assemblies from captured British Universal type carriers. The conversion comprised of moving the rear axle forward and shortening the driveshaft, reinforcing the chassis and mounting double sets of the Carden-Loyd two-wheel bogie assemblies, along with tracks, to each side of the chassis. The conversion reduced the payload capacity from 3-tons to 2-tons. The Ford plants in Cologne, Amsterdam and Asnieres, France started mass-producing the conversions in 1942 totaling nearly 15,000 units by 1944

frankly I'm a bit surprised this hasn't been discussed here, either that or my search just didn't find the right thread. I mean I know it's not a historic MV, but it's pretty amazing none the less. I think it certainly could be a history making MV. One thing that's confusing about the linked article is this

T

he tank is also the first to have an internal armoured capsule to give added protection for its three-man crew.

my understanding is it's a 2 man crew, that the turret is fully automated with no crew inside.

the commander on the right side where the "radio operator / bow gunner" used to sit in WW2, and

the driver back to his traditional spot on the left side after sitting dead center in the T72 series.

if it is truly a 2 man crew with fully automated turret then it's another significant step forward in MBT design. The russians have been setting a trend here it seems. First smooth bore gun in the T62. first 3 man crew with auto-loader in the T72, and now this . Commander must have his hands full though is he's commanding the tank , controlling the main gun, and operating the defensive systems too. This would be impossible though, so they must have integrated artificial intelligence controls to at least the defensive suite?

Still seems like a monumental task, identifying targets for both attack and defense, prioritizing them, engaging the biggest threats, and avoiding fratricide /friendly fire at the same time.

I'm no expert but that trailer doesn't look like it was designed to hold the 2S3 Akatsiya which is over 10 feet wide. They must have been desperate to try and load it with 1/2 a track hanging off each side of the trailer. That's less than 9 inch room for error per side before you tumble off.

The trailer is more likely for 2S9 artillery based on the BMD-1 chassis

I don't know how your tank museum is run, but if it's like the typical public pr private institution, then the biggest difference between it's capabilities is bureaucracy and overhead costs. With a one man show you have almost zero overhead, the facility/garage is part of the primary dwelling so water, lights, taxes are all paid at the same time. Decisions are made quickly and efficiently, with no waste. All resources are maximized and utilized to their full benefit.

With a large public institution overheard is tremendous, just the labor costs are ridiculous from the director, assistant director, director of maintenance, on an on. For example, in a big educational institution here which is supposed to be a "public service " , it's no unusual to see a million dollars in salary over 3 people. Not to mention things like electric, water, building maintenance etc. are going to be substantial because your catering to the public and have to meet safety and occupancy standards set by law.

Decision making? Forget about it. It's typically a Goat rodeo of committee's and little chiefs and when a decision is finally made the money spent is squandered and spent as wastefully as possible. Typically, your most qualified and motivated people will not stay long, burning out as they see their talent under-utilized and their frustration levels reach unbearable levels.

So I think sending work out is really best, in the long run it's cheaper, you get a better product, and the museum can focus on important stuff like "what color should we paint the lobby?"

The owner where asking 450.000 euro, but I dont know the final price

Still, that's a huge sum of money for someone in Eastern Europe to pocket for digging up some rusty steel. I can see the headlines now

" New Flash!, all metal detectors in Eastern Europe sold out, not a one to be had" :laugh:

the adds are gone, looks like parts are sold?

Anyone know who got them or what they sold for?

aaaaa...

Yes I think it is to much of a replica to be on a list of surviving Bf 110.

But as a static display it does the trick, and the cockpit is fully equipped.

 

oh and Nice job on the Sdkfz

here you go.Shermans, hellcats, Stuarts up the wazoo. Even a 20mm rocket launcher on IFV : )

http://s106.photobucket.com/user/nammeci/library/Muzej%20Kozara?sort=3&page=1

from the Sherman registry

http://web.inter.nl.net/users/spoelstra/g104/yu.htm

During the 1950s Yugoslavia was supplied with both WW2 surplus and new military equipment from the United States for use by the Yugoslav armed forces.

Of the 3,000 US trucks provided between 1952 and 1958 the majority were GMC CCKW-352 and -353 trucks (these were later fitted with local bodywork). Armour included examples of the M8 Greyhound Armoured Car, M3 Half-Track, White M3A1 Scout Car, M3A3/M3A5 Stuart Light Tank, M18 Hellcat 76 mm and M36-series 'Jackson' 90 mm Gun Motor Carriages and the M7/M7B2 Priest 105 mm Howitzer Motor Carriage. Furthermore, 630 Sherman M4-series (including M32, M32B1 and M74 Tank Recovery Vehicles) and 300 M47 Patton Medium Tanks were supplied. Other vehicles included IHC M5 13-ton and M4 18-ton High-Speed Tractors, and Pacific M26 armoured tank transporters.

In due course it was superseded by Soviet and indigenous material. Although it was thought that by the late 1980s the WW- II era equipment had been taken out of service, many of them could be seen on television and in newspapers when the Yugoslav conflict raged in the early 1990s.

As far as can be ascertained, the Shermans of the Yugoslav Army were all M4A3-E4 76MM Shermans, remanufactured and retrofitted with 76 mm guns in the M34A1 gun mount. These long guns in the standard Sherman turret gave rise to the rumour that the Yugoslav Army was equipped with Sherman Fireflies.

In 1970 the film "Kelly's Heroes" was shot in Yugoslavia. Besides other Shermans and T34s (convincingly dressed up as Tiger tanks) several M4A3(75)W Shermans retrofitted with 76 mm guns were used in the making of this film. Contrary to the tank destroyers, no Sherman tanks were seen in action in the Yugoslav conflict. However, many survive as memorials in towns and army bases all around former Yugoslavia.

The picture on the left shows a Sherman on the small arms range of the VJ barracks just west of Pristina, Kosovo.

I'm pretty sure the M18's came out of Bosnia, but Yugoslavia was a big place, much bigger than just Bosnia. So the Dayton peace accord and whatever arms reduction MBT cutting-up treaties they signed, would not have applied to Serbia, Croatia, Macedonia, Montenegro, or Slovenia. The Shermans are still there, some were on ranges and are shot up, but most are just sitting in storage area's. I've done many searches on the net and come up with pics from all over Serbia of shermans, M10's, M18's, old T34-85's, even some ISU -122's and such . A lot were sitting on military bases.

Like this one, which really bugs me, an ultra rare Sdkfz. 251 with Pak 40 cannon rotting out in the weather at a base in Banja Luka, which is the Serbian portion of Bosnia.

the video is old though, since they say the half-track would take 30K German Marks to "restore" and it's worth 200K Marks. Obviously the episode was filmed before Eurofication.

the country is broke, so you could go there and buy some of this stuff , especially the Shermans. Trouble would be getting the right people to sign off on it so you wouldn't get "detained" at a border. I still have my citizenship, and often daydream of going there and rescuing some WW2 vehicles, might even be able to make some contacts with the serb army thru the net, but I hate to travel, and I would hate even more to be arrested as an "American spy"

where did all that water come from? Did you pump it out later and check for more parts down in the mud? it appears the chassis was lying up-side down and the digger flipped it over before dragging it out of the hole?

maybe the engine is still down there too?

I understand the heavy equipment is very expensive to rent, so time was not a luxury on pulling the chassis out .

The other thing I've been thinking about is the fact that most WW2 veterans are dying out, and therefore a lot of the people who were around back then and know where stuff like this is buried. It's good that people are grabbing whatever they can right now and preserving history .

Thats amazing, looks pretty complete

That makes you wonder what could have ripped the back half off? Typically when you see a vehicle cut in half the first thought is it ran over a mine, but if this was dug up in Germany then it must be end of the war, with the panzers in retreat. Unlikely they would have run over their own mine-field?

In one picture it looks like the vehicle was hit on the left side, just behind the first road wheel. Everything is bent towards the side opposite the driver.

Udo any guesses on what destroyed this truck?

wow, I thought you were joking, but that chassis really was buried in someones garden, right under the Tulips.:-)

It amazes the lengths that people will go thru to put together a vehicle, looking for little pieces all over Europe.

Then you see a complete Hanomag rotting out in the weather like the one in Bosnia .

not associated with this seller, looks to be about an hour away from me. Not familiar with the value of any of this stuff either, but there's some pretty early 1940's and prior trucks and engines.

What do you think my wife would say if I pulled up in a 1944 REO 6x6 ?

http://denver.craigslist.org/cto/4914508104.html

It's an interesting collection isn't it? even though the add plainly states "contact Alex Televich in the Czech republic" , My first thought was " these are more parts dug up in Russia" because practically every newly discovered panzer relic seems to come from Russia. However it's hard to imagine digging up 35 tons of steel in Russia, and shipping it home, especially if your not Russian.

It took a little searching to realize in that the Germans sent some heavy armor divisions to replace the Hungarian government which was in danger of capitulating to the advancing soviet army. This had already happened in Romania and the Germans weren't about to let another allied government switch sides so easilly. The schwere Panzer Abteilung 503, heavy panzer battalion , had a mix of Tiger1's and Tiger 2's, supported with Pz-3's in the role of scouting and quick reaction, (infantry suppression?) roles. The 503rd has an interesting history, first the Russian front, then Normandy where they were caught in a carpet bombing campaign from US AF heavy bombers out in the open and lost almost all their armor, then finally the Balkans.

After Hungary was overrun, they fell back thru Czechoslovakia and then Austria into Germany. They lost a number of tanks during all this, more blown up by their own crews that destroyed by Soviet forces, so this region could be a gold mine of relics related to heavy panzers.

the recent discovery of the grave of the highest scoring tank ace of the war, Kurt Knispel, in the Czech republic I think is an indication of what this area might yield in the future.

just introducing myself as NOT a spam-bot. :-)

Name = Dragan in the USA

Saw my first AFV's at age 5 at the Kalemegdan fortress in Boegrad, what was then Yugoslavia 1972. there was a Skoda built Panzer 38t, Pz-2, and a Pz-4 along with assorted American and Soviet armor that was either sold or donated to the Yugoslav government after WW2.

Been fascinated with them ever since, although I don't own any. Closest I've come is some modeling in high school with Tamiya kits, including Diorama's my brother and I built and entered in the local hobby shop contest. Lately, I've re-kindled an interest in all the stuff that's being dug up, pulled out bogs, and welded back together by enthusiasts.

I'm a machinist and now instrument maker, 33 years experience. Thinking about eventually becoming on of those " old guys" who volunteers his time some day to a restoration project like the Littlefield Panther. You know the guy, reading glasses, coveralls, standing in front of a lathe and turning a custom part or tool.

So here I am