teletech

On 2/11/2023 at 3:56 AM, andym said:

I'm rather confused. Do you have a photo of the undocumented connectors?

8 hours ago, andym said:

That just looks like a pair of BV connectors to me?

That would actually be pretty cool to have if the electrics would support it, but no.

One connector has an unthreaded body to go with the push-on BV cable, the other is a normal threaded connector.  I've attached pictures of the inside of the box as well so you can see that there are just two small wires passing through on the 5-pin-to-4-pin side.

18 hours ago, andym said:

I'm rather confused. Do you have a photo of the undocumented connectors?

The photo I posted at the top shows the BV cable adjacent to it's electrically-matched connector.  The connector on the right is one of the two undocumented connectors,

43 minutes ago, andym said:

Judging by the diagram, the 4-pin connector is something to do with the NBC fan and scavenge blower.  It seems to be intended to prevent the NBC fan starting unless the engine is running.

Andy

The NBC bit is clear, the confusion is the junction box the BV cable plugs into.  Two connectors that are undocumented on that schematic and also the main schematics I found:

Spartan_wiring_diagram.pdf

Thanks to those who reassured me it was fine to rotate the shell and to show the whole thing opened.  I rotated mine with a minimum of harsh language and subsequently looked up the part number and the ones I saw for sale and advertised as new had the orientation mine started with and also 180 degrees out, so it apparently is quite common. 

Not to get too far into CVR(T) specific questions here, but the junction box has a couple other connectors on it, the 4-pin (shown) and a 5-pin on the opposite side, of which only 2 pins pass through.  I've no idea what those are for, so any help there would be very welcome.

6 minutes ago, gordonb said:

This one. The  press studs at the top of the shell engage with straps in the helmet.

https://armyradio.com/Racal-Clansman-Head-Set-and-Microphone.html

 

gmb

Press studs as an identifying feature, got it.

9 minutes ago, andym said:

Surely any ANR headset would work?

I'm sure any ANR headset would work, but finding one with the best isolation would perhaps help reduce the suffering of driving a Ferret.  I tried an active aircraft intercom that worked great in a WWII fighter and it was pretty inadequate in the Ferret.

7 hours ago, gordonb said:

The Ferret is very loud in the driver's position, do folks have a preferred headset for that application?

The less common A vehicle headset, with or without the helmet.

Gordon

Any chance of a picture or part number to help me identify what I'm after?

I agree rotating the socket seems easier, I just didn't want to do that and find my cable was wrong and now I'd made the vehicle nonstandard and can't use other BV cables.

Thanks for the very helpful description and picture.  My 90 degree shell is one piece so I suspect of being slightly harder to pull apart, but otherwise it looks annoying but very achievable.  Funny they use the same wire gauge for the relay activation wires as the power wires.

I have a Spartan and based on the schematics and the connector, I'm pretty sure I know where the BV is supposed to connect.

I also have a BV cable that looks fine as far as I know.  Thing is, I can't plug the one into the other because the key is rotated such that the right angle on the BV cable interferes with the hull.  So, either the connector on the junction box is rotated, the connector on the BV cable is rotated, or just possibly I have the wrong cable (though it mates with the BV fine and looks like it would work fine but for the rotation)?

The cable end appears non-trivial to disassemble to rotate, like perhaps the wires are potted?

Can someone enlighten me as to the difference between the ANR and digital ANR interconnect boxes?  Are these compatible with the normal ANR boxes and headsets, or are they yet something else.

I'm seeing for instance a commander's box 5820 99 117 9583

While on the subject, it seems like a non-ANR crew box could be put on the Clansman bus with ANR boxes and should work fine apart from not being compatible with ANR headsets, is this correct?

Also, I found the IPC for a Clansman install in a Spartan, though it is lacking details about what brackets are needed, it does at least provide a list of the basic parts and their general locations.  Those foot-switches are an interesting thing and I wonder how they are wired?

Spartan-radio-CES.pdf

What are you using for high-heat white interior paint?

41 minutes ago, andym said:

An IB-3 would be a better bet than the IB-2 for your application as you don't need the IB-2's extra complexity.   That said, the Radio Lines Box will provide power to the harness, too.

The external tank telephone is usually connected by yet another box, the TAB (Telephone Adaptor Box).

There's a complete list of the boxes with explanations here: http://daimlerferret.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Clansman-harness-manual.pdf

Andy

Thanks very much, this was pretty much the document I've been needing to help pull it all together.

I've got an IB-3 driver's box, Commander's box, cables, and other random bits and bobs inbound, which should get me at least one vehicle set up and help me figure out how I want to configure the others.

The Ferret is very loud in the driver's position, do folks have a preferred headset for that application?

8 hours ago, andym said:

I don't think there's such a thing as an IB-1, but either an IB-2 or IB-3 will work for what you want.  The Clansman Radio Lines Box isn't the same as an IB-2, it's for vehicles like the Abbot that may have land lines fed to them from a command post.

The 12-pin cables are indeed designed as a daisy chain but you don't actually need to close the loop to make it a ring, that's just for redundancy.  You won't easily find part numbers for the cables because they are vehicle dependent due to length etc.  Just try to find ones of the correct length or make them up yourself as has been suggested above.  The 12-pin connectors are particularly "interesting" to solder up!

Hope that helps!

Andy

So a radio lines box won't power intercoms?  I just ask since they are on the cheap side compared to IB-2 these days.  I expect to wind up with a few IB-3 as a result of scarcity of IB-2.

I'd sort of suspected as much on the redundancy of the cables, but thanks very much for confirming my suspicion.

I'm not surprised by there being a plethora of part numbers for different lengths, but some vendors know part numbers and not applications and as pointed out, these cables are getting slightly hard to come by at reasonable prices, so to the extent I can find numbers, I can improve my odds of finding more cables for better prices.

I did find clansman installation manuals for sale for Spartan, Sabre, and Ferret, so I'll buy up those manuals and hopefully they will provide a wealth of helpful part numbers, mounting locations, and the rest.  Do we have a repository for online manuals on the forum somewhere?

Tanks used to have the external phone and I was wondering if I can use the communal IC (IB3) / remote (IB2) connectors to attach a field phone to duplicate that functionality?

I've got a cart going and think I'll be able to make a go of the clansman intercom, but I could use more clarity about some things:

The IB-3 seems the most available these days, with some IB-2 available.  Was there an IB-1?   I found the following CLANSMAN RADIO LINES BOX (ANR) 5820 99 156 3548 5820991563548 SD0/269743 FE9518M0003 BOX ASSEMBLY,RADIO. and can't identify it, but it looks a lot like an IB-2, but not quite.

The drawings on the Ferret site and others show not one but two 12-pin cables running between the IB and CB, or other cabling arrangements so that it's a daisy-chain.  Is this correct?

The sites describing the gear have numbers for the big parts (CB-2, IB-3, etc.) but part numbers for the power cable and 12-pin cables are lacking.  Is there a source for these number online?

I'd also love to know the correct cable routing and strain relief for the cable between the wiper motor and the instrument cluster.

I did find some decent pictures of the outside of the console and digging in I found the hot-start-solinoid system was for extreme cold-weather (likely either) and was deleted at some point.

OK, so the ANR is actually well-implimented and worth having then, good to know.  LRSeries looks to have a good stock and prices, so I'll reach out and see if I can get my needs met there.

I'm reading that the gold-face boxes are ANR, but Clansman interconnecting box (ANR) NSN 5820-99-721-4311 has a black face.  Is this actually a suitable ANR box?  It seems the IB-2 and IB-3 do most of the same things but the IB-2 has yet another headset port, so might have an edge in utility for vehicles that might want that one extra headset?

Regarding all the 7-position and 12-position cables, is there any point in digging through sixty pounds of Bowman cables I have in the hopes of finding anything useful?

Looking into this stuff, it appears that if I buy it as single pieces, the shipping to the US might exceed the cost of the parts, so if anyone has a suggestion for a vendor where I might get most of it as one lot, that would be appreciated.

Some great resources here and it looks like Clansman is the way to go.  It's frustrating there is so much kits that's almost compatible (ANR or not).  How much better is the niose-reduction gear,  I imagine it's a big upgrade?

I've got a random pile of cruft here and wondering if any of if might be a good start on a vehicle intercom system (at least commander/driver) for my previously-Bowman-equipped Spartan?  I don't know if the ANR electronics are located in the headset, the pressel, the interconnect box, or the radio.  I also don't know how one would power an interconnect box or if can even be used standalone.  Any suggestions to point me in the right direction here would be appreciated.  I'm passing familiar with radio gear in general and have a lot of experience with Motorola radios as fitted to AMR, police, etc. so some concepts are comfortable for me and I'm not afraid to hack up cables or modify equipment, but I also have quite enough on my plate with two CVR(T) and a Ferret, so if the right answer is to buy a COTS aircraft intercom, then so be it.

2x Headset Crew Tank Vehicle 5965-99-614-7484 (Bowman?)

2x PTT switch 5965-990763-7913 (Clansman)

2x Racal EA545/1000 interconnect box (Bowman)

1x CPU (ANR) 5820-99-894-0515

1x ancient  CVR(T)-appropriate  CVC helmet with headset.

1x Interconnecting "C" Box 5820-99-949-1007 (larkspur)

Does somebody have good shots of the inside of a tidy cluster assembly?  I know there is some aspect of this that is a result of additions and the repower, but mine is a total box of spaghetti, with most of the wires being pretty orderly, but then two or three dozen crossing over, through, behind, dangling loose...   What's it supposed to look like?

Obviously A/C was a wire left for the future.

What's hotstartsol useful for?  I know it goes to the starter, but on the cluster end it's just loose.  It's loose on the schematic I have as well. Did it ever do anything?

On 10/11/2022 at 6:12 AM, 11th Armoured said:

There was quite a bit of footage of Spartans being used during the recent Kharkiv offensive, together with other western-supplied APCs. Not the perhaps expected mish-mash of types, either - one unit with a whole column of Spartans, another with M113s, and yet another with Dutch YPR-765s, suggesting they were fresh formations.

I'd be interested if you had a link to the footage you saw.

A dozen isn't going to be much help on the battlefield, but it is a game changer in terms of optics and commitment, a major western military sending modern MBT.  Hopefully there will be more to come.  US is (finally) coming up with some Bradleys.  Like the UK and the Challenger 2, 50 is just a token compared to what is needed.  Unlike the UK the US could easily send thousands of Bradleys (and Abrams for that matter) without really drawing down forces all that much. 

Seems like the yanks are going back to being late for every war, sorry about that.

The picture of the SLR clips was very helpful for identification.  I'd only had pictures of SA80 brackets in Spartans.

Interestingly, I've heard now from a couple brokers that most of the vehicles going to Ukraine are getting stripped of any loose non-essential bits like rifle clips, smoke dischargers, etc. so that the larger dealers are building large mounds of that stuff and it's actually a very good time to buy what in previous times were rare little bits.  Accordingly, I've got some of the SLR brackets on the way.

Thanks again.

Nice find on the rifle clips, I'll see if they will ship internationally.

Interesting, those stowage sketches are yet different than the other layouts I've seen.  They must be the very first series since the wading screens are still shown.

I've see the tow ropes stowed variously, did this change over time or was it by-unit variance?

Internally, I'd like to find a set of brackets for the SLR/FAL/L1A1 rifles, but all the IPC catalogs I can find have been updated to the SA80 so I can't find the brackets or part numbers for those brackets.  Any assistance would be appreciated.

I also notice the manuals describe the boiling vessel plug as being on the bulkhead in front of the section-commander / radio operator, but the IPC doesn't show that.  Pictures of how the boiling vessel socket was mounted would be helpful.  My Spartan became a Sturgeon and I'm trying to roll it back since I don't want to have to make up a pretend MCT.  I'd consider it, but I wasn't one of the lucky ones to get part of the turret still intact.

2 hours ago, robin craig said:

I think, knowing you and your skills, if you use the bolt holes where this mounts and the size of the belt that you can fabricate one from dimensions you can gain there that would be fit for purpose, don't under sell you skills.

Turns out, the vendor I got the gearbox from was on holiday, but is back and has offered to fill the order for all the parts I need.  That tensioner was by far the most expensive part and I was tempted to fab one, but since I have enough to do and a few of the other parts weren't as bad as they could have been, I decided to just spend the money.

I've got the hydraulics overhauled and refit, so the list of needed tasks is getting very short indeed and quite soon the biggest challenge will be clearing a path from the Spartan to the door... well, that and learning to drive. 😄