teletech

Pretty sure no lasting harm was done by many layers of paint, but it's true they are getting rarer.... there are a lot fewer Soviet-era tanks around these days!

Welcome.

Are you going to the Steelsoldiers rally this weekend? Looks like a fun time, but I'm not up to the drive this year.

https://www.steelsoldiers.com/threads/2023-socal-spring-rally.213696/#post-2508484

Interesting to see that it's a bit uneven.  Many parts look great, but no radio or intercoms fitted, missing the side bin, and overspray on the gauges and controls, etc..  With a little work it will be really excellent, but it does serve to remind one that the private collectors tend to lovingly "over restore" vehicles sometimes compared to how the MOD treats them.

This report has some details of the forces moved and a destroyed Spartan about 6:00 in.

Nick in the news.

56 minutes ago, andym said:

You need the manual those CB2 instructions came from: https://radionerds.com/images/4/40/UK-PRC320_Infantry_Signal_Training.pdf

Andy

Yes!  That's just what I was hoping for.  Thanks very much!

Trying to work out all the possible modes and connections has me a bit confused and a good set of instructions would help.

I'm hoping for a set like this one for the CB2:

Crew-box-2-instructions.pdf

5 hours ago, gordonb said:

'd also love to see pics of the CB2/IB3 mounting in Ferrets, particularly if they don't use the "universal plate".

I wouldn't lose sleep over it, I am sure in a lot of cases it was like uniforms, it fits where it touches. I.e. stick it where convenient and your cables fit.

I have the universal plate but the bits and bobs on it are positioned to suit myself, that is as a driver operator; not something done in service.

 

My 321/352 setup is also unusual and I have the orientation of the 321 to suit me, not as per the official instructions.

 

03BB33  Mk.1

 

I'm more concerned about cable routing in the Spartan since there is no obvious neat way to get the cable from the driver box to the IB3 or commander box.

The Ferret is pretty easy, I have seen a few different mountings for sure and I do see where studs used to be for an IB3 in the location specified by the manual, but sadly they have been cut off and a set added for something else (guessing a VIC-1 since it was a Canadian Ferret). 

I guess I need to figure out the proper procedure for welding studs back on the hull without damaging the temper of the armor... not that I expect to take rounds, but it does seem the right thing to try to embrace the spirit of the thing.

3 hours ago, fv1609 said:

Clansman in Ferret was covered in the sequence EMER COMMUNICATION INSTALLATIONS K 670-679

I've now found this rather nice writeup for the Ferret 5800-f-121-412, but I'm also suspicious there was some mounting variation by unit or at least over time.  I've seen quite the plethora of arrangements in the pictures and videos I've looked at, but I'm not sure how much of that is post-service modification and how much is "correct".

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/767079/07360.pdf

Well, I managed to get a full set of clansman intercom boxes, a pile of cables, and some misc. from SeriesLR.  I can't say it was a great experience in many ways, but they did have a good inventory and they did ship promptly, so there's that.

I don't have any sort of guide to cable routing apart from the CES listing that cable x goes from say IB3 to CB2o, so at least I know the order they are connected in.  Hanging the boxes on the hull and connecting in that order has given me a system that appears to at least sort-of function.  It's hard to tell with just one person and two mismatched headsets.  I feel like the volume is low and perhaps not everything is working as it should be, but it does at least sort-of work, so hurrah!

If anyone had pictures or details of how the cables are routed, that would be a big help, particularly the DBF to the CB2d and CB2d to IC3 and the foot switch the commander has to the DBF.

I'd also love to see pics of the CB2/IB3 mounting in Ferrets, particularly if they don't use the "universal plate".

I'm waiting on an order of more ANR headsets and pressels, so that should help move things along once they arrive.

There is a pad on the fuel tank for a switch.  I believe I saw a reference to it being perhaps related to interior lighting, but can't be sure now.  It could also be a PTT or other radio feature.  I don't see it on the schematics I have in my manuals.  Anyway, I've managed to get one of the switches and now I'm wondering how to wire it up?

Did you drive the Ferret before changing the tyres?  I'm curious to know how the driving experience changes between lumpy and *very* stiff old runflats and the new much more compliant tyres they are making now.

Speaking of high prices, here we go, $55K for a Ferret:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/166015622905

If the engine really is rebuilt nicely, that's something.  Missing the side bin is a pretty big oversight.  The turn lights *might* be correct for an ex-CDN, not sure if missing sand-channels would be right for Canadian service.  Wrong tires,... plenty of things wrong for that Irish-service paint job.  Sigh.

8 minutes ago, hauptmanngurque said:

I am glad to know that you are mounting the sleve bearings and that these 3 inch ones fit correctly. In principle there should be a difference of a few tenths with the originals. I am in your same situation and I am waiting for a complete set of them to proceed with the change.

Are you using lined steel, or something else?

At the moment, I'm planning to do a mix of 2" lined steel, 2" sintered bronze, and also try a couple of each at the full 5".  Someday I'll have it running and will be able to report on what works the best.

Today I finally pressed out my first set of the pivot arm bearings.  They wouldn't budge with my 2-ton manual press, but came out easily with my 8-ton hydraulic unit.

I sectioned one of the removed bearings and looked at it under a microscope.  It looks like about .5MM of brass/copper on a steel shell.  The back of the shell is lightly plated as well.

On 3/20/2023 at 2:53 PM, hauptmanngurque said:

 By the way, the 3-3/16 sleeve bushings have a slightly smaller external diameter than the original ones.

From this warning, I was fully prepared for the new steel bearing to be too loose in the bore, but pressing it in, it needed a very reasonable level of force to install, so perhaps the ones hauptmanngurque found were different from the ones I used or else my pivot arms were made with slightly different tooling.  I used the 2" long 3" from https://asbbearings.com/collections/3-id-steel-backed-ptfe-lined-inch-sleeves

I'm still not at all sure I wouldn't prefer to use oilite bearings, especially for refit, since they are sintered bronze throughout and so won't tear up the pivot brackets like the steel ones do as soon as you cut through the PTFE and bronze layers.  I suspect they are much more tolerant of marginal lubrication as well and for the short runs most of us do would likely be fine without free liquid in the reservoir.

As for the ones I took out, this one had over .030" of wear in the worst areas, so 1.5X the depth of the wear layer!

Sadly, the Australian who did this project posted it way back in 2018 and hasn't posted since 2018, or been on the site since 2020, so we have no idea what happened to the Turbo-Ferret or it's creator.

7 minutes ago, robin craig said:

teletech I have a Ferret turret with base plate for way less than that and I'm just over the border.

Andy M you can not imagine the depths one goes to to ship and then import vehicles into North America. Canada and the US are different hut neither are a sure thing cake walk every time and I've done Ferret and Fox and Stormer and FV432 and Bedfords and Land Rovers and BV 206s to drop some names. Phytosanitary certifcates and agriculture inspections and haulage disasters over salt laden roads over man, many miles, import licenses and a whole gamut of officials who go off side because it is a green box on tracks with zero weapons or mounts whatsoever. If you have met a "Jobs worth" in the UK they are nothing to people with guns and badges and the power to cost you large with extra washing and storage fees and haulage snafus. Once kit is in the US it therefore has an extra value beyond what the UK will bear.

 

Post that turret on SteelSoldiers and you'll get some attention, or I can forward contact for a potential buyer.

I've imported a couple vehicles into the US so I well know the feeling of that extra several thousand dollars to have the containers unloaded for inspection at union wages several times by different agencies.  I wasn't actually suggesting the prices in the North American market were particularly high, but rather the prices in the UK seemed shockingly cheap when looking in from the outside.

It was a lot of welding on contaminated metal with slightly uneven seams, so leaks were a concern.  I had a few quarts of slightly dirty acetone, so poured that in and gave things a good slosh.  One pinprick in a corner where I got careless, but nothing else, so that was a relief.  Now onto the sealer to protect from corrosion, and then it's time to clean and paint the exterior.

In retrospect, I would have done well to pressure-wash the tank beforehand.

Looks like a Stormer was damaged or destroyed, but so far that's the only confirmed CVR(T) loss I've been able to find.  One would think with the 100+ Spartans that have gone, we'd see some losses for that platform as well.  Perhaps they are just too small a target.

17 minutes ago, Newcoregon said:

Sold my MkII Ferret for $13K USD and did a happy dance as it left.  No interest in my CVR[w] Fox tho. In Oregon, USA  It's listed here too. Dave

I've seen a couple Ferret turrets in the US where folks want $5000-6000, so I'd say the buyer did quite well.

Well, that auction site did OK on the other stuff, perhaps flog the Fox there?

Not expecting to put many miles on my Spartan, I didn't want to have 85 gallons of diesel slowly going bad. I also didn't want to go the fuel-can route, so I decided what I needed was a more reasonable-size tank.
As a regrettable miss in spares, I didn't get any torsion bars, but I did wind up with a perfectly reasonable spare fuel tank.  Mine was fine as well, so while waiting for spares to get the vehicle running, I did some surgery on the spare to get it a bit under half the original size.  Still larger than it needs to be, but at least it's reasonable.
It's not correct equipment, but I plan to carry a lot of spares so every cubic foot is welcome as well.
I've included pictures of the inside of the tank in case anyone is wondering how the baffles are arranged or needing access.
Note that the pickup tube dips into the space between the middle torsion-box space, so there is 2/3+ cubic foot of fuel that is inaccessible while the vehicle is sitting flat and still and that all things being equal, you will run out of fuel going downhill sooner than uphill.  I'd have to check, but I think the rearmost space between the torsion bar boxes is sealed-off from the rest of the tank and unused.
The interior of the tank and most of the exterior was in great condition, but I did have some significant pitting along the side where it sat against the hull under the squad leader's seat.  I would advise anyone with a Spartan to clean the muck out of the space so it won't trap water and perhaps slide in an insulating sheet just to prevent galvanic action.
Speaking of corrosion, the tank is *well* tinned, making flame cutting and welding hazardous unless proper precautions are observed.
I haven't decided to re-tin the exterior, I think paint will suffice.  I have some aerospace fuel tank sealing compound for the interior seams I plan to use.

I made the sealing-covers before realizing I need all new pivot-arm bearings, so it made sense to sandblast and prime the arm before doing the bearing press.  Slight over-restoration in hitting the casting flash with a belt sander to make for a slightly easier to clean finished product.

On 3/21/2023 at 9:43 AM, robin33ba07 said:

hello Teletech is this what you are looking for ???  https://www.thexmod.com/item_detail.asp?id=449&t=Seal_Pivot_Axle_AS38121_FV717522

2530-99-835-5787  ?  regards Robin

Not sure, but they are sold out in any case.  I've had an offer of one so I can at least use that to determine the hardness and as a pattern to make new rubber, also to inspect the surface finish on the metal.  I need to inspect them, but so far I don't have a reason to believe the steel on my current seals isn't usable or at least salvageable with some surface-grinder work.

That's actually a very reasonable price for an Abbot in the USA.  Once in a while I've seen someone asking that for a Ferret!

The US government won't sell armored vehicles to it's citizens and bans re-import of US-made armored vehicles (with some exceptions for WWII and prior, etc.), so there's a *lot* of pent-up demand.  Can you imagine all the yanks who wear a 1911 to go to the corner store and have a loaded AR15 in the trunk NOT being able to get fun toys like that!?

So, yeah, we're crazy for guns and vehicles over here and have almost zero domestic supply of AFVs.  That often makes for some very high prices when things do come up for sale.

Very sad about the gun being cut, but it's impossible to import anything over 12Ga/.505" into the US anymore and California is even more restrictive.  There are a few pre-1989 imports around, I was quoted around $50,000 for a live 76mm gun (just the gun) for a Scorpion if I wanted one!

Some US soft-skins as well.

https://themarket.bonhams.com/us/listings/vickers/fv433-abbot/c810b221-784a-43b0-a741-a37c80cefdb0?status=live
https://themarket.bonhams.com/us/listings/leyland-motors/fv4201-chieftain-tank/90aad57c-19f9-49a9-8354-b61ec0701d57?status=live
https://themarket.bonhams.com/us/listings/dodge/wc63-1-12-ton-6x6/88233c25-383e-4fd2-b3c6-e8add54c758d?status=live
https://themarket.bonhams.com/us/listings/gkn/fv432-armored-personnel-carrier/1734e472-186f-4117-8988-fa2bc930d214?status=live

I very much hope they go high enough to quell this temptation I'm feeling!