Tomo.T

Yes, and the letters O and I ? It is interesting to see how the crack has followed the line of the lettering. I am plotting a fix for this which will involve another visit from Stan the Man. Watch this space.

And most importantly all the bits are there ?

I have consulted "Auriga" on the subject and he seems to indicate problems with the early arrangements.

Book of the Thornycroft  p66

In earlier vehicles with short dumb irons, we frequently found it necessary to replace the two through rivets by bolts, with tubular distance pieces between the frame flanges, thus enabling them to be screwed up hard. In later vehicles an improved pattern of long dumb iron was fitted by the makers and this gave no trouble.

Many horses pass this way !

Tomo

Good point Sir,  but all makes of lorries had to negotiate the same roads and this problem seems to be most prevalent on Thornycrofts ?

Also, didn't vehicles travel on the right in ww1 France ?

As David pointed out above, cracked front chassis members were not uncommon on J types. So was this due to a manufacturing fault, a material failure, or was it simply due to stress from vibration of the solid mounted engine ?

Construction or use? Any metallurgists in the house ?

Tomo 

44 minutes ago, David Herbert said:

As you say, this part of the chassis should not be under great stress, particularly if the bolts / rivets have not been loose. However the Goslings' J was cracked in almost the same place. I wonder if it could be a result of weakness caused by the manufacturing process ? And why only the LH chassis rail ?

David

Hello David,

Yes, I understand this was a recognised fault on J types and a specially extended internal reinforcing piece was developed along with tubular supports for the bolts. I have one of each type of support, the offside being unaltered, but it also had a small crack, now welded.

Tomo

I couldn't resist poking about on the engine and the oil pump was soon removed for inspection. It was choked with red dust and I took it home for a more intimate examination. 

I have previously read that these pumps were die cast aluminium, but this one is very definitely a heavily tinned and leaded gunmetal and the gear shafts run directly in this with no bushes. Having said this, the wear is now such that bushes will be a necessity before any more pumping occurs. There is also considerable wear on the drive pin which is pretty standard for the V2 pump I believe.

The most delicate operation involved the front chassis member where a nasty crack had appeared right through the treasured  chassis no. and down the side causing the complete separation of the end of the plate. This part is not under stress and is held by the front bolt, and the later added internal reinforcing piece, so we decided to weld the outside only to preserve the number. Note the three figure engine No. from 1915.( lovely !)

With the help of Shaun ( Prague1996 ) I now have all my eggs in one basket and the engine and parts are eyeing up their new chassis. A very successful mission albeit requiring some improvised unloading techniques, and a rather late finish !

The chassis has had some attention prior to blasting, having suffered butchery in the past in order to accommodate a wooden hut. There were also several cracks to repair and I have used up a lot of favours from my old mate Stan Lewenden, Welding  Wizard and Ace Fabricator. The following pics will hopefully illustrate progress, but I apologise in advance for the quality as they were all taken in poor light on my phone.

13 minutes ago, nz2 said:

Now to find the all the other bits for a Leyland.!

 

In your shed Doug ?

Palladium engines were apparently Continentals from America although Dorman was also offered as an alternative.

Hi Duncan, 

Found a nice pic of the works lorry at Putney

Global warming ?

Further research by Hampshire Museums Trust has produced more details of this event. Local Basingstoke photographer Terry Hunt, was responsible for the pictures, taken a week after the Armistice on 16/11/1918-( 100 years ago tomorrow.) The parade stretched for over a mile and half the floats were presented by works departments from Thornycroft's.  Following the Parade a bonfire was held with cannons being discharged and effigies burnt, this being attended by 7,000 people. Quite a party !

Here's a pic of the inlet side of this M4 engine which shows some interesting features. Although it was supplied after the war it still has the early type oil pump with a priming tank and a cast iron inlet manifold. ( Most being cast in aluminium at this stage.) This perhaps infers the using up of older parts post war. The radiator however is a later design and  is mounted lower in the chassis which will make it and the header pipe redundant for 2393.

The engine appears to be pretty sound, but needs to be in a better environment before stripping down and examining it's internal state. Some movement on this is expected soon.

the chassis is back to it's underpants, awaiting the tender attentions of a Blaster Man and some rapid paintwork before winter gets stuck in.

Tomo

2 hours ago, george said:

Hi,

Got my copy and it is a  magnificent work.

Contact (mick.hibberd@ntworld.com)

I think they are going fast.

 

George.

That's ntlworld I think you'll find.

They seem to be popping up out of the swamps on a regular basis. Still armed and dangerous !

Quite likely I would think. Some of the works departments have definitely overdone the float decoration !

Quite agree with Doug, an excellent book, packed with rare information on a much neglected subject, original thread here ; 

          http://hmvf.co.uk/topic/39212-new-book-on-ww1-vehicle-signage/ 

Tomo

Having gathered together sufficient parts to make a start over the last year, I am at last ready to commence the restoration of Thornycroft  J type No. 2393 of 1915. This chassis was recovered from beneath an old chalet in Skegness  and thus protected has survived in remarkably good order. It was discovered and recovered by Graham Hand and passed on to John Marshall, who began to  add parts as they became available, but was concentrating on his front runner J type 2282 also of 1915.

It is great to find a chassis, particularly one in good condition, but the icing on the cake would be an engine and I became aware of the existence of a collection of Thornycroft parts in Sydney Australia. These parts from various models had been rescued from an auction having failed to attract any bidders and I soon discovered the new owner, Ian Browning was willing to move them on, providing I took on the whole collection. This was more than I wanted, but I decided to go for it and with the blessing of the Australian Government, I made arrangements to export a container load of rusty metal from the other side of the world. Ian took on the job of packing and loading in temperatures of 40 degrees which can't have been pleasant ( Thanks mate !) and after a 3 month voyage I took delivery at Southampton.

The haul included 2 chassis (one 'X' one 'J') two M4 engines, one fairly complete, the other less so and various other hard to find parts. The chassis were just post war with no numbers visible. After a hard life hauling loads on Australian roads they were put to work again as farm trailers and further abused until abandoned and rescued for preservation.

I had little interest in the rare X type parts,( being a lighter weight export model) and after considerable wrangling managed to swap these and the tired J chassis for the current 1915 project. I now have temporary accommodation which is secure if a little draughty on the Ox/ Bucks border. Anyone with workshop space in this area and/or an interest in helping with this project please shout ! I am also seeking parts including a gearbox, water pump and Diff gear.

Regards,

Tomo

.

Steve, please see my recent thread; Thornycroft Victory Parade, which shows clearly that sprags were fitted right to the last of the wartime models at least. 

Their use was not officially banned until 1921 (along with frost spikes on steam rollers,) after the advent of tarmac surfacing.

Tomo.

May not ship to UK.

Hi Steve,

An interesting attachment and very handy on a downhill gradient. What was the plan for scotching on an uphill section ? Edit.( Ok, I see the chain is removable.)

While on the subject, will you be fitting the sprag poles to the Thornycroft and how were they operated, was there a control in the cab?

Tomo

Terrific, cheers.

How can I contact you ??????