LarryH57

I'm assured they were USAAF personnel, and in at least two separate locations - plus unlikely to have been borrowed from the Home Guard for a 'jolly'. I guess a Home Guard A/C would have a proper serial used on A/Cs in British Army and not V520

BTW - I have just noticed the B-17s in the background in photo 1 & 2 with the D on the tail matching 100th BG.

Without an MG I guess they could have used it for a runabout - after all they had more petrol than we have now! Ha ha!

I thought this would be simple for those who know the USAAF!!!

Those with an interest in the USAAF in the UK in WW2, will no doubt be familiar with the reverse Lend Lease of Austin K2 ambulances and Crossley Crash Tenders that the USAAF used, etc. But I was unaware of the use by the USAAF of British Armoured Cars I think for airfield defence, as seen in these photos of a Morris Armoured Car used at Thorp Abbotts airfield, the home of the 100th BG.

I'm not familiar with the V serial on the front. Any clues as to it and the type / identity of the defence unit hat used these?

And why do MG ?

I don't believe these were armoured crash tenders

Incidentally Ted, in the background of the photo of the people dancing in costume is what appears to be a GMC 6x6 and trailer. Do you think that it is a visitor or RAF vehicle?

Thanks Ted. A nice selection of vehicles in the background. I can make out Crossley Q and a four wheeled office type trailer but not an Albion.

Yes, I agree, so lets see some more photos or comments from Ted, especially his take on the Commer Q2 with a green roof.

So are you saying Ted that the Nobel s colours are the same after all, or the name is wrong. Surely one is a dark green  and the other is grey tarmac?

Dear Bob,

Its great to have you on board so to speak with Ted and Matchfuze etc as RAF Vehicle Colour Specialists. I correspond with Mike Starmer too and of course I am familiar with his MAFVA info.

One point - I'm reliably informed that Nobel's Tarmac (Dark) Green No.4 is not the same as Nobel's Dark Tarmac No 4, with the later being the colour of tarmac. That is unless there is confusion with (Dark) Green No.4 in having 'Tarmac' in its name. Ted Angus knows.

Keep up the good work !

Dear Bob,

Thanks for sharing these photos. The following is my take on the vehicle photos;

1. Starting with the Albion AM463 refueller in the back ground it does look green and brown rather than two greens of G3 and G4.

2. The Trolley Acc in RAF blue-grey is quite typical, as it is too insignificant to get the camo treatment

3- The four shots of the Bedford MSC vehicle also look to be decidedly green and brown, even if I adjust the colour and although I admit to being a doubter of such schemes, I think at the time of the Battle of Britain there was either a lack of AMO guidance for the RAF in the UK or perhaps a decision that locally acquired paints etc should be used until an AMO gave guidance. I know we have to make allowances for colour movie film but I cannot 'change' it on the PC to be G3 green and G4 dark green. Never say never?

4. Regarding the WAAAF on the Fordson N I have posted this on HMVF before.  I did wonder if this was a colourised photo. Assuming it isn't I have been told on here that it may be a hurriedly purchased civi tractor that were switched from being orange and delivered in gloss green. It still has the Fordson lettering picked out in red - orange. As for the wheels ???

5. The Westland Whirlwind shot shows a Trolley Acc in RAF Blue Grey with white wheels as mentioned previously. Why white?

6. The Fordson Roadless and Bowser I have seen before and referred to Mike Starmer (of WW2 colours fame) and he like me, in comparison with other shots from the sequence, says it appears to be G3 base coat with G5 Light Green as camo. Could that be the answer to the Bedford MSCs mentioned in 3. above? This photo dates to August 1941.

7. The Albion AM463 refueller in front of the Spitfire also dates from 1941 appears to be G3 Green but not much else shows. It is from Life Magazine I think.

8. The Commer Q2 with a green upper camouflage in a 'quasi' mickey mouse scheme is very interesting to me as I am logging examples of when the RAF got it wrong (or not). I'm guessing the vehicle is in a base coat of  SCC.2 brown and that it dates from a mid war period when using up G4 instead of  Nobel's Dark Tarmac No.4 was more common ( or so we might assume). Have you a date and place Bob, for this photo?

9. The rear end of the staff car is IMHO G3 and G4 but apart from RAF personnel hard to know if it's RAF

10. The Fordson Type 1301 I have seen on the web, but the Albion Ambulance behind the colours are 'different'

11 . The Commer Q15 head on is from the same film as the Fordson Roadless and Bowser above, as it almost certainly Green G3 base with G4 dark green camo. 

12. the AEC 6x6 Bowser. Either G3 and G4 too or more likely is it SCC.2 with G3 camo, which fits with the 1942-45 Lancaster years.

13. Is the Fordson N and WAAF towing a blockbuster another example of a Gloss Green and 'brown' wheels vehicle as in 4. above.

14.Another AEC 6x6 with SCC.2 base coat and Black, Dark Brown or even Green camo?

15. I cannot say much except the bowser appears to be camouflaged.

16. Thanks for the photos of the David Brown tractors. that with a yellow bonnet dates from late 1944.

So to recap thanks Bob for these attachments, and interestingly or perhaps embarrassingly, the photo of that Fordson 7V I saw some years ago in the 601 Sqn film is still 'missing' !

Well RAF blue grey seems to have been used on all manner of tools and equipment that was not of a size that mattered regarding aerial observation by the Luftwaffe. Incidentally i have seen tool compressors that have been camouflaged and yet Trolley Accumulators that have had  RAF blue grey wheels and white wheels too.

By chance i was passing WH Smiths and noticed they are selling a paperback/ magazine called Military Trucks Archive and Volume 6 was on AEC Military vehicles including more than trucks, so armoured cars and tanks too, from 1930s up to Militant and beyond.

Same with me - no download

My Land Rover Lwt, over the last few years has had E5 in it and due to Covid, especially last year, was not driven much. The only thing I noticed on my last drive but one, was that I had to give it full revs when the Carb started a momentary spit, as if there was grit in the fuel. I thought it was in need of a new fuel filter which I have yet to fit. But I wonder now if it is E5 coating the needles? Is E5 too low to do much harm. It still starts and drives ok.

One final thought - is there any way to spot the difference in photos? Any distinguishing features between an O854 and an 854?

Thanks - I get it now its an O and not a zero

BOBC,

Like Ted Angus (my partner in crime relating to RAF Vehicle Colours) I too was after a shot of the Fordson 7V as requested a mere 10 years ago on this thread. Any help with a screen shot of the Fordson 7V would be gratefully received via a PM or via Ted or on here

Did you by chance see the recent programme on TV called 'Dig 1940' concerning the Battle of Britain? The programme showed clips from a very rare 'home movie' in colour, by W Rhodes Moorhouse showing 601 Sqn Hawker Hurricanes in the BoB. But as the film panned across a group of pilots in the background was an RAF truck in green and brown camo - which looked the same colours used on the Hurricanes - not that I'm claiming it was the same paint.

Thanks in advance

Larry

The AEC Matador 4x4 was called 0853  and the other 6x6 versions were AEC 854 and 0854 (and not to be called Matador!)

But what is the difference between an AEC 854 and 0854?

Well Ruxy, I need to revisit Texaco Petrol in Romsey but each pump was marked accordingly, so i avoided E10 for E5 on the other pumps, luckily without getting in anyones way. Obviously a pointless exercise till next month. Perhaps the guy with the stickers was off till 3rd Sept so did not want to disappoint!

Well E10 is here and I noticed a driver's look with horror as I said that I needed to move pumps to use E5 instead, as she had just filled up with E10 without noticing in an equally ancient 20th Century car. But I never saw her up the road waiting for the RAC or AA so perhaps she never noticed!

Being a bit dim I thought this question might be about UK bases generally rather than a specific item etc. All I know is that if you are ever at a Military base in the UK and it undergoes a major refurbishment costing millions, then its sure to close shortly!  If its a bit of kit or a vehicle, then it will surely get a new engine and gearbox just before it is cast next month

Who remembers the Combat Engineer Tractor?  One minute its a good bit of kit, relatively inexpensive, next a pile of junk, that's not much use to civi contractors. Surely an 'ole is an 'ole and the CET was just as good at digging. Also why is the Army swaps 100 old vehicles for a new super-dooper vehicle but buys 3 or whatever. Could it be the new 21st Century Army is no longer allowed to operate away from its Workshops?

These things have happened to so many bases and vehicles it must be more than a coincidence

Dear Ted,

It was specialist maps they made; those made at Hillside were target maps and one set per aircraft on each raid. But of course I realise it was for every Group too and so that multiples the number of maps. I guess that if a Bombing Raid was split as a decoy then that increases the variations! No wonder they needed a 5 tonner!

Smiffy, I have just noticed the last post occurred the day before Covid-19 'started'. Hopefully you and the restoration are OK?

Regarding the MT Companies in the RAF, am I right in thinking that if 4 MT used 4, there was no attempt to hide their identity - so there must have been 1 to 4  (or more) but I guess easily identifiable anyway. But I guess some MT Companies were based overseas with out of sequence numbers.

Where they 1 to 4 MT Companies in UK and others overseas with the same numbers, or was it like an RAF Squadron (those with aircraft) with a unique number that was formed and reformed?

I can't find much on RAF MT Companies online

Lastly, in the photo of RAF Hillside I guess the Studebaker must have been used for bulk supplies of paper or ink etc at it does seem rather large to take even 300 maps for a raid to Bomber HQ. The Bedford MW could have done that.

Yes, I guess you are right, and I don't know much about the Allies in the Azores, and what RAF Groups were stationed there, but I guess Coastal Command featured.

Dear All,

So I understand when RAF vehicles, were allocated to a unit, they were marked with the Command and Group letter / number. So we are used to seeing say B/6 for 6 Group Bomber Command on an RAF refueller. But in the list of Commands 'S' stood for Colonel Turners Department (Camouflage & Decoy Services).

So what explanation is there for S on this AEC based in the Azores?

What a shame you have no takers for the fuel bowser hose. These bowsers used to be very common on farms in my youth, and used to carry water to where it was needed.