julezee001

I haven't looked back through the gallery, so I'm not sure if my latest rusty 3D jigsaw puzzle has featured. I believe it has never been registered since leaving military service, as it was always used with trade plates. The chassis plate is missing, but the no. is clearly stamped, and I believe it's from 1951. Chassis no. 7364, and army no. 01 BD 97.

Hopefully (and in my dreams!) she'll be back on the road next year in time for her 60th birthday!

Jules

When incidents happen in lifting or winching situations they are not accidents. They are caused by either faulty/ incorrect equipment or incompetence. I have seen too many incidents resulting in death or serious injury and have an attack of the horrors when I see the things that some people will do. To suggest that its an accident and is humorous when

a sea water rotted rope breaks beggars belief and is totally irresponsible. I think you will find it is not only bad practice but illegal to use untested equipment. Please everybody take note of what Cosrec and other professionals have to say, it could save your own or someone else's life and if you intend to use a vehicle for winching go on a course to learn the correct techniques, it will be money well spent.

Accidents are by definition accidents, otherwise someone would have planned to deliberately snap the rope surely? Whilst the outcome to anyone who has any real experience of winching was entirely predictable, with the fibre rope parting it was not likely to produce fatal injury.

I would suspect that the use of untested equipment in this case is perfectly legal if not necessarily sensible. As I would guess no money changed hands, and the Scammell driver doesn't do recovery for a living, I doubt that there was a need for the kit to be tested. If it were a professional job, all the kit would probably need dated test certs and marker rings, both for the operators reasurance, and for their insurance cover to be valid.

As a side note, many years ago I watched with growing concern a recovery operation on the off road course at W & P. One truck stuck nose into a deep hole, with another trying to winch it out forward??? Lots of people standing far too close. Fortunately the winch drive pin broke and not the steel cable. In the end a half track using what looked like its wartime cable pulled the truck out backwards without a problem.

The keys to recovery are one person taking control, planning/explaining what needs to be done, and a good dose of common sense??

Jules

HI AFTER GOING TO A SHOW AT THE WEEKEND WITH THE SCAMMELL AND A SERIES LANDY DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY PICTURES OF AN A FRAME FOR SUSPENDED TOW OF A VEHICLE LIKE THIS AS WHEN I GOT TO THE SHOW THE LANDY DECIDED TO CROAK ON ME I ENDED UP RATCHET STRAPPING IT TO A BAR AND LIFTING HER UP THEN I HAD TO DRAG IT ROUND ALL WEEKEND WHAT A PAIN ANY PICS SO I CAN MAKE ONE WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED

CHRIS:nut:

Hi Chris,

I have one which isn't original kit to the Scammell, but was from an ad in a Landrover mag from almost 20 years ago. It is simple and robust, with a Nato towing eye and tows a Series Landrover very well behind another Landrover, or would be good for a suspend tow on the Scammell (although I've not tried that yet). If I remember, I'll take some photos and post them asap.

Jules

Usually it is far better organised, with good marshaling and a course well laid out with bamboo canes. I believe there was a shortage of canes this year, so old tyres were used in places which are not the easiest thing to see on the ground from a large truck.

The only real rule is don't hit the canes as far as I understand, but at the end of the day it is only really a good excuse to have a bit of fun and show off what the trucks are capable of, all usually without doing serious damage, and with many willing helpers should things go wrong.

I think the only thing that would make it better (besides slightly better organisation), would be to run it during the day as a proper attraction possibly, and maybe encouraging a few more competitors with other makes of truck.

Jules

This year I was very restrained at the show only buying a spare pair of head gaskets for the Militant for £35.

Unfortunately just before leaving someone asked if I wanted any spares for my Explorer, and one thing leading to another it looks likely that I have another part restored Explorer jigsaw puzzle to put together. I am saying this assuming that I can clearance from the "Management"??

Jules

Doh! Paul fluffed the gearchange and couldn't get my old girl into top, hence he was pipped at the line. I think I know where most of the oil is going on her too. Out of the exhaust from the look of it? Glad I finally fitted a dipstick before the show this year and changed what was left of the oil after 5 years of running around.

Thanks as ever to the Twickenham off roaders for taking the time to organise and run the truck trials, which were entertaining as ever, and of course dominated by the Explorers.

Jules

Usual stuff dreampt up by people who probably don't have a car or don't pay for the one they drive! Probably being brought in as a protectionist measure, but will just cost everyone lots of money, and in the end the "cheap Chinese imports" will conform in every respect to the new legislation, but will be far more expensive because they'll have all the right markings. Great idea!

My experience of tyres has been varied, with very expensive Michelins sometimes lasting less than 12000 miles, and cheap budgets occasionally lasting and performing well. The worst problem currently is damage to tyres of all makes from potholes, either causing instant deflation, or serious damage to the tyre structure causing poor handling, and possible sudden failure at a later time.

Perhaps the money wasted on the proposed changes could be spent better on the roads which are becoming dangerous to use through lack of proper repair?

Jules

I took our dog for a walk first thing last year in the huge field to the west of the Americas field, and accessed through a track from Great Monktons (?). It had space for 1000's but only had about 10 vehicles in it. Quiet, but no facilities, and a bit of a hike to the beer tent!

There's usually space almost anywhere for a single vehicle, and I've found people more than willing to share excess space in the past. More difficult if you turn up with a number of vehicles on Friday and want to park together, but still possible.

Not close to the Helicopter rides if you want quiet during the daytime!

Jules

BBC South East news has just warned of likely heavy rain for Wednesday and Thursday. Deep joy! (and mud??). I have to say they often struggle to get it right 24 hours ahead, let alone 3 days, so I'm not packing the wellies yet!

Jules

Just my personal experiance of this no MOT lark and I don't wish to offend anyone that has the knowledge to make sure their vehicle is in a good and roadworthy state and there are many of you on this site that know far more than the inspectors! I am an ex inspector myself from the early 80's so I do have some clue, well on a good day...

 

I recently purchased a SUMB diesel "The best maintained in the UK" I bought this sight unseen and this is not a bitch letter as I'm very happy with the vehicle, but safe you must be joking! First problem noted when I picked the vehicle up from a storage facility in Swindon was the air brake valve, lets just say it needed a rebuild and farm animals would scatter but at least the warning light would stay out and it stopped ok, then it started to rain, well no wiper linkage oh and no washer jet just a hole in the bonnet... so fixed the wiper pin tightened up the arms and away, wipers rubbers were painted in NATO green so couldn't see a thing, stopped after a very slow and cautious head out the window 100 miles to look at the excessive play in the steering box and hoping to adjust at least 3/4 a turn of the wheel play out as it was difficult keeping in my lane even at 35... Noted, to my amazement the drop arm ball joint nut was hanging on by 1/4 of it's thread the taper popped and no split pin in sight!

 

Trully frightening, things were going through my head like what would I have done faced with a totally free steering wheel? Jump? lock all four wheels with a massive stamp on the brakes and hope momentum keeps you on the right side of the road? Really doesnt bear thinking about. Anyway, my maybe, probably, a bit long winded point is, not everyone that can afford and own these MOT exempt vehicles has a clue about repairing them, altough they probably try their best, it is just a hobby and they are probably brilliant in another field.

 

As much as I hate government involvement and health and safety, comonsense must prevail and if that means a lot of us are a bit put out with fees and inspections to protect us from monumental implications if one of these beasts goes out of control somewhere that is OK with me. In this day and age of high reflective jackets and hard hats to cut the grass is it too much to expect to test a 50 year old 5 or 20 ton vehicle before the school run?

 

And yes I have just got back from the pub so please excuse me, especially the spelling, where did that spell check go... and I was walking looking over my shoulder for out of control SUMB's :nut::-D:-D

For someone who was an inspector in the past, I'm amazed that you drove the vehicle on the road without giving it a good once over yourself first, whatever was put in the advert. Obviously as the driver you were responsible for the vehicles condition, in the same way that anyone driving any vehicle on the road, whether it has an M.O.T test certificate or not, and whether it needs one or not.

A vehicle might have a valid test certificate but that doesn't mean that it is roadworthy for the whole year, only at the time of the test, and essentially in the opinion of the particular tester, and the variation between testers can be amazing.

I think most people who own classic military vehicles have good knowledge of their vehicles, and are able to keep their vehicle roadworthy, certainly with pre 1960 vehicles which are relatively simple. I hope most also check over the basics on their vehicles before any journey on the roads, or even running around a showground, i.e. tyres, lights, steering, leaks, brakes etc. The forces carry out a first parade, which is the drivers chance to check that the basics of the vehicle are sound, and to acknowledge that they are responsible for the vehicles condition.

Jules

Make one in two halves that bolt together (up ramp and down ramp) and they could double as wheel chocks for winching operations. Surprised the Explorers don't carry some form of wheel chocks as standard equipment anyway!

Explorers of course do come with their own wheel chocks, namely the scotch pans which go under the front wheels, and are secured with a hawser/chain to hooks either side on the rear of the chassis. Also 2 of the 4 gun planks carried on most Explorers can be dug in between the rear wheel pairs either side, helping to secure the truck for winching operations.

Jules

Great job, well done. I feel I should paint mine now! I hope it does years more service with no hassle, now that you've lavished it with time and new parts!

Jules

Being manufactured pre 1973 and never used commercially, it has only ever been registered as an Historic vehicle since leaving Military service. My late brother bought it 20 years ago, and it's been back on the road since 1998, and tested since then either as an HGV or a Class 4, largely depending on the availability of Class testers. The previous 2 years it's had an HGV test owing to a lack of class tester, this year my local test station has a class tester again.

As it currently has all the required items to be a "Motor caravan", it can be tested as one. If I bolted 30 seats on the back, I could probably call it a bus if it conformed to the required definition, and then have it tested as one, still under the historic class. Using it as a bus commercially, I suspect, would be vastly more complicated.

Jules

I don't have a fire truck, but have 2 that have been converted in the past to car transporters. Both run 2.6 litre 6 cylinder petrol engines, one having been a 2286cc diesel originally. On a good day it's 15 mpg, loaded (fire engine) it rapidly gets worse. Parts are an issue, with a specialist company wanting over £300 for an ENV front axle halfshaft over 20 years ago! I found a NOS one with a rebuilt gearbox for £100 in the end. Many parts are hard to find these days, but there are often ways around the lack of spares as long as total originality isn't essential.

They are an acquired taste to drive, cramped for taller people, hot sitting over the engine, noisy, very heavy steering for squeezing into a tight space, etc. But overall I think they're fun and different, and I enjoy taking out the one that is roadworthy. I can't remember the last time I saw another one on the road locally.

In many ways they were ahead of their time, with a large high loadbed, long before everyone had forklifts, hiabs, or telehandlers. There are lots of things that were wrong with the design, but had Landrover continued with the principal design, we might have a 3500kg competitor for the 1000's of similar Japanese small trucks which seem to have the monopoly these days??

Jules

The beauty of the "motor caravan" route is that it's a class 4 MOT regardless of the vehicles size or weight. There are specific criteria that you need to satisfy, like a minimum 2 ring cooker OR microwave oven, table, chairs that are permanently fixed to the structure, bed, windows in the side etc. getting it re registered as a motor caravan would then make it a motor caravan and not a goods vehicle. So then all you need to do is get a class 4 car mot every year, a lot less strict than an HGV MOT and would save on all the hassel in dealing with VOSA etc.

Unfortunately the "V" word is hard to avoid if your choice of vehicle is manufactured post 1960, and over 3500kg, it will almost certainly go to a VOSA test station, or an approved place where a VOSA vehicle examiner will come to, i.e bus depot or similar.

However as mentioned elsewhere, this year I took my 1964 Mk1 Militant for a class 4 test as a motorhome. Registered as an Historic vehicle for taxation purposes it seems to leave the option open. The tester wasn't sure, but having inspected the box body,which this year is bolted down, and having checked the bed, cooker etc he agreed it was a motorhome. I do have other camping kit on board, such as the generator, 18' x 24' tent, and a few other bits and pieces, which made him suggest it might be a living van; I don't know the definition/difference other than they require an HGV test?? He relented and tested as large class 4, which at £57.30, saved over £60 on the HGV test fee.

Jules

Have you tried clamping all the flex hoses then see if the pedal goes straight down to the floor and releasing one at a time trying the brakes in between ?

I'd go with this method as a quick way to diagnose where the problem is.

Jules

surely if he cannot conduct a test on the rollers due to the vehicle's construction, he should conduct a tapley test, rather than asking you to bring it stripped down? i.e prop removed?

Overall he was very helpful, and I don't want to upset him by not being helpful myself? He ignored the molegrips on the outer drivers door handle that I snapped off 2 days before the test ("Get it fixed!"), and the military headlights were the usual blob on the beam tester...

I don't wan't to p*** him off as he was eventually happy to test it as class 4, but I'm fairly sure it should have had a Tapley test. I might call VOSA to see if I can get someone to put their neck on the line and give an opinion in writing, but knowing what my own experience has been and others too, it often depends on who you speak to or even which way the wind is blowing, for the answer given. Whilst testing as an HGV is not the end of the world, after all the hassle and expense last year, I'd rather not go there again.

He wanted to test it on the rollers because then he knows all the brakes are doing something, which wouldn't be shown with the Tapley meter. If there were an accident the police might ask why the brakes weren't tested on a rolling tester, but the chance of having a major incident through brake inefficiency is tiny, and as many 4 x 4's and other modern cars (with sophisticated traction control systems)have to be tested with a Tapley still, I can't see the problem myself. If it were like most other Mk1 Militants, it would be pre 1960 and wouldn't need a test at all, and then it would be down to me as the driver to judge whether it's roadworthy. Perhaps I should take the Scammell Explorer up for a voluntary brake test and see them test that on the rollers?

Jules

The problem with the rolling brake test as far as I'm concerned is mainly with the set up of the Mk 1 Militants rear brakes, with one air actuator for the left pair of wheels and one operating the right pair. They pull one axles brake s on with a rod, and push the other on with a tube. If they are not initially set up correctly (almost impossible without a rolling brake tester), the only way they will even up is through natural bedding in and wear. Unfortunately in the last 20 years my Mk1 has only done about 6000 miles, and has had almost no significant wear on the linings, so the brake tester is what I used last year to scrape through the test.

 

Another Militant owner suggested that it should only have a Tapley test as it can't be compared with a modern truck with an individual actuator for each wheel, and they don't hold specific brake readings for the Militant? I haven't been able to confirm this with my friendly man from VOSA.

 

Tried booking a test for the truck today.... waded thro VOSA's phone system. Eventually got through to find the HGV test has gone up from about £75 last year to £120 this year!! Talk about daylight robbery! So I then tried to ask the lady on the phone if there was a local test centre to test it as class 4, as a motorhome. She threw a track.... Eventually putting me through to Hasting test centre, who are going to phone me back to arrange a test date. "Can I have a direct number" I asked. "Absolutely not!!" was the reply. True public service....Need I say more.

 

Jules

Spent all day yesterday making brackets to bolt my box body to the Militant for the M.O.T. test today, thus converting it from a load on an HGV to a motorhome, and a class 4 test. It was worth it in the end although the tester wanted to check that there really is a bed, cooker, and sink in the back. He then commented that as it had a generator and tent (18 x 24) it was possibly a Living Van? which apparently is an HGV test. In the end he relented and tested it as class 4.

The brake test as ever was the issue, mainly because he couldn't carry out a proper class 4 test, because of the lack of third diff. It should have each axle tested for imbalance with both wheels rolling forward, which of course can't be done. He therefore tested as an HGV, using the max effort each side to work out the imbalance. As far as I understand it he should have used a Tapley meter, be he described that as being as much good as an upright brick in the cab!

If it had been tested as an HGV (21500kg), it would have failed on the rear axle brake imbalance (41%), but as a motorhome (Class 4) 16500kg it is within the 50% limit for a rear axle.

For next year he has suggested that I take the rear prop off so he can test both rear axles properly! Any comments welcome.

Jules

I am sure if they are fitted they have to be worn, HGV is not exempt.

Correct! Another EU interference in this countries affairs, changed in 2006. Glad I haven't fitted belts then.

Jules

They're normally a bit confused by the early/military style of headlamp which are original, and have a dull 45w glow and don't have directional glass/lens. They haven't even tried to test them, except for hi/lo and on/off working.

Luckily through age it does not require seat belts, and as an HGV I believe I wouldn't have to wear them even if they are fitted!

Jules

the test station at Wetherby, still has an incline for testing brakes on vehicles that can't/ don't have to go through a test on the rollers.

 

So, if I get the wheels rotated in opposite directions, I can get a brake test on the rollers? I'll go see about it tomorrow, wonder if I'll get any 'locks' ?

The incline is only to test the handbrake. The footbrake efficiency would be tested with a Tapley meter in the cab, and stopping asap from 20mph. Two years ago my Militant was tested this way, I'm fairly sure I hadn't reached 20mph but the tester seemed satisfied. I'm not sure I could reach 20mph within the boundary of the test centre?

Rumour has it that many years ago, a tester split his lip on the fuel filters in the cab when testing a Militant with rather efficient brakes at the same centre. Ouch!!

Jules

With one wheel driven forward and the other counter rotated, the crown wheel of the diff on the axle in question is not rotated so there is no drive to the the pinion, thus also no drive to the prop to the other rear axle, or forward to the transfer box and the front axle (if it were in 6 wheel drive). Hence if you jack up one of the rear axles and spin a wheel the other one will turn the opposite way, because the prop is locked by the action of the other axle being on the ground. Far easier to demonstrate than explain in writing!!

Jules

Sorry side tracked, and didn't answer the question. They can test the brakes without driving it off the tester because unlike a car brake tester in a local garage, they can turn the rollers in opposite directions. On the Militant this means each wheel is tested in turn, not in pairs. It also makes for a long sweaty test building up the air for eack one in turn, then ratcheting on the handbrake for each wheel in turn (as the secondary braking system) and then ratcheting on the handbrake for each one again to check the handbrake works! A true work out on a warm day, with 5 tests last year before getting through it was quite a bit of excercise!

As has been explained elsewhere Pioneers and Explorers can't have a rolling brake test as each side the pairs of wheels are driven by gears in the walking beams.

Jules

that reminds me, I was meaning to ask you, Jules, about testing your militant, didn't you have a problem with the rolling road and your brake readings? I tried to blag a free brake test for the militant recently, and was told they couldn't do the back axles as the militant doesn't have a diff lock, and the rollers would drive the vehicle out, by turning the other road wheels via the prop etc. Does anyone have any views on this?

The problem with the rolling brake test as far as I'm concerned is mainly with the set up of the Mk 1 Militants rear brakes, with one air actuator for the left pair of wheels and one operating the right pair. They pull one axles brake s on with a rod, and push the other on with a tube. If they are not initially set up correctly (almost impossible without a rolling brake tester), the only way they will even up is through natural bedding in and wear. Unfortunately in the last 20 years my Mk1 has only done about 6000 miles, and has had almost no significant wear on the linings, so the brake tester is what I used last year to scrape through the test.

Another Militant owner suggested that it should only have a Tapley test as it can't be compared with a modern truck with an individual actuator for each wheel, and they don't hold specific brake readings for the Militant? I haven't been able to confirm this with my friendly man from VOSA.

Tried booking a test for the truck today.... waded thro VOSA's phone system. Eventually got through to find the HGV test has gone up from about £75 last year to £120 this year!! Talk about daylight robbery! So I then tried to ask the lady on the phone if there was a local test centre to test it as class 4, as a motorhome. She threw a track.... Eventually putting me through to Hasting test centre, who are going to phone me back to arrange a test date. "Can I have a direct number" I asked. "Absolutely not!!" was the reply. True public service....Need I say more.

Jules

I guess I'll have to go tracked then! Although the running costs of a Militant, even requiring a test are probably a fraction of those of running tracked armour on the road?

Jules