julezee001

Hopefully I'll have time tomorrow to pull both rear drums off and have another look. It shouldn't be too difficult as the n/s one was off in the rain on Monday, and the o/s one was off less than 4 years ago. My plan is to have another clean and rub down of all the shoes, and then swap 2 shoes. My thought is that they could be different linings side to side, or even just worse contamination on the n/s. If I swap 2 shoes and put like shoes in the same position, either both leading or both trailing then that should even up the effort. It's worked for me on Landrovers in the past!

If the shoes were even slightly worn, or soaked in oil, I'd just fit a new set, but they really look like new. I would suspect something else, but the mechanical system is so simple there really can't be anything there causing the problem. The lever move freely, there is no binding, no ovality. Fingers crossed I'll sort it tomorrow, and help fill the Governments coffers again on Tuesday with a voluntary test, and then a re-test?

Jules

Not trying to hog your thread, honest! As an update from yesterday I took my Militant for a re-test at 9.30 this morning. Failed again with the n/s/r brake with low effort still, causing imbalance on the rear axle. Ended up outside the test centre adjusting both rear n/s brakes almost to binding point, then went just down the road to a Commercial vehicle workshop who were really helpful, and adjusted all the rear brakes on their advice, and the tested on their roller brake tester. All seemed fine. Back to test centre for a second go today at midday. Secondary braking now fine (using handbrake only) up from 13% to 25%, great (needed 15%)!

Unfortunately the n/s/r whilst loads better, up from 350kg (ish) to 945kg (ish), is still way behind the o/s/r one at 1455kg (ish) (left paperwork in truck), giving 39% imbalance which again was better, but 35% is the limit! So time allowing I'll strip the brakes off the rear axle and fit the new shoes that I already have and go for a voluntary test, before blowing another £52 for a re-test. The other quick alternative is to squirt some oil on the o/s/r brake linings to drop their efficiency, but the exact effects are probably rather un-predictable??

Your Milly is looking great. It's hard to explain to people what it takes to get a truck of their size looking presentable, and then to keep it so, especially doing most of the work on your lonesome! Keep up the good work!

Jules

That sound cheap? Have you stripped your brakes on your Militant? The shoes are huge! I took both o/s/r drums off about 4 years ago to change the bellows oil seals on the hubs. Both those pairs of shoes were really oily, but having cleaned everything with brake cleaner, and rubbed them back a bit they have been fine ever since. I had the drum off the n/s/r yesterday expecting similar, but it was almost spotless, hence I've gone for adjusting the rod.

Jules

As I said the main problem is balancing the brakes on the 2nd and 3rd axles without the use of a commercial brake tester. They are far from the best design. Ideally it needs converting to 2 cylinders per axle, but I think that brings lots of added paperwork issues!

Hopefully I've made them better, as the n/s/r rod was easily twisted by hand when the handbrake was fully on, with the n/s tube tight and un-movable. Now both are just about the same? I'll let you know tomorrow how it goes!

My brother enquired at LSUK about 15 years ago for the price of re-lining, and was initially quote £600 an axle set of 4 shoes!!! They did later drop it to £360, but in the end he bought 2 complete BNIB axle sets for £80 from someone who had run Militants for forestry work! I haven't enquired recently for a price, but would suspect I could buy a pre 1960 Militant cheaper and solve the problem a different way?

Jules

My brother bought her 18 years ago (fast bike or something different!), we picked her out from 10 others with Atlas/Hiabs, and 60+ cargos with or without winches. Everyone said that they were all built in the 50's, but it turns out 2 batches were built in 1964, and PRX 529B is one of the last batch!

She has always stopped a treat from day one, and only had 16000 miles on the clock when collected. Now only coming round to 22220 miles she still stops great, but unfortunately not quite well enough! The weakness is the rear brake set up which has only one cylinder each side to operate both axle brake expanders. The second axle is pushed on with a tube while the third is pulled on with a rod. In the Army they would only ever have had a Tapley test, with the meter in the cab, which they would pass fine, and indeed mine passed last year. Unfortunately the tester this year knew how to use the roller brake tester, and despite being generous with second go's on the n/s/r it wouldn't come up to spec! With the handbrake one foot on the front panel, one on the window frame and both hands pulling on the lever were not enough!! (I hope there wasn't any cctv!).

In the past a handy get around was to test her as a camper on a class 4 test, which as far as I understand it means that if the front brakes "lock out", then the rears only need to produce 500kg force each to pass, which wasn't a problem with readings getting up to 1460kg usually. Unfortunately there are no longer any class 4 testers either locally at Hastings or even at Purfleet one of the largest HGV test stations??

Hopefully I might get a sympathetic tester tomorrow who will allow a quick adjust of the brakes if they are still not right? The first test was £73, and the re-test of the brakes tomorrow is another £53 ouch! Luckily it's not too far through the lanes to the test centre so I've not wasted too much fuel!

The box body on the back body weighs about 3 tons, which helps load the brakes, although in the past we loaded 6 tons of timber on the back to help. The GVW was dropped from about 22500kg to 21300kg which also helps slightly.

Jules

Belated Happy Birthday for the 26th Simon!! Wish I'd looked on the day as it was my birthday too, my second 21st! Not especially strange except for the fact that I too have a Mk1 Militant. Failed its M.O.T test yesterday, with low effort on n/s/r brake. Hopefully just adjustment, which I've tried to sort, and back for a re-test tomorrow morning.

Jules

Both our Explorers run RR Eagle 220 diesels these days and the one with the engine/fan set further back has done lots of towing of all sorts, slow and flat out and has never shown any sign of over heating. A friend still has the Meadows petrol fitted, which always seems to run hotter, making the cab feel like a sauna on a warm day compared to the diesels. Despite this it doesn't seem to overheat?

I don't think I can suggest a solution in addition to any already mentioned except that the radiator seems to be over sized for the original engine to allow for use in hot climates possibly, which would suggest some other problem?

Good luck! Jules

Hi Folks,

The plan is:

Run out on 26th April, which happens to be my b'day! Boy they rush round these days??

The Cuckoo Fayre at Laughton

An Exercise in Gib?

W & P

IMPS at Headcorn, which has to be better than being stuck by the Funfair at Biggin Hill Airshow last year (boom, boom, boom all day!!). Aircraft, what aircraft, I never heard any!

IMPS Bethune trip, with the hope of better weather, and with luck better camping arrangements?

Jules

Personally I think the standard military lights from the 50's with the screw on glass lenses are perfectly adequate in modern traffic, although with the low speed an amber beacon in the early evening/night time seems to give oncoming drivers better warning of something worth slowing down for, especially in the Sussex lanes!

With mirrors, the 1950's mirrors on the Scammell Explorer were little larger than postage stamps, and whilst I would drive with them in an emergency, they are totally inadequate (though perfectly legal) for modern traffic. What to fit instead is really down to personal choice, but later HGV e.g.Bedford MK/MJ mirrors are pretty good, though I'm sure there are many other good types!

Jules

Just a thought here guys. For those vehicles that can be recovered by a suspended tow.

An idea springs to mind. It's so obvious, thats probably why no one has bought the matter up. :idea:

The amount of restored Recovery Vehicles owned by members on this Forum is quite large.

Why dosent' someone look into the possibility of offering a service using their own Trucks? It would be cheaper on a One-off basis, or run a standard price Plus so much per mile?

 

Just a thought, but the idea of all this magnificent vehicles restored & simply just driving around carrying empty hooks is a bit of a waste! :-(

 

Just a thought! :coffee:

Only reason my late brother bought our first Explorer was so that if the Militant broke down we would get home! Ten years later, and both have always made it home under their own steam along with my own Explorer for the last 4 years.

Always happy to help any MV owner on way to, or returning from shows, IMPS Bethune trip etc. Just for fun and not for hire or reward. We've towed all sorts from 1940's Hillman to 1980's Crusader tank transporter with T34/85 on the trailer, although the latter only 400 yards before the air brakes came on and slowed progress considerable, and made tyre wear excessive!

Jules

Grumpy, your suggestion seems to be that because "Recovery Vehicles" are not specifically listed on the form "V10" that they can never be Historic Vehicles. Yet I would suggest that the form is only a guide, and that any road going vehicle not used commercially and Manufactured before 1 Jan 1973 can be Historic. The evidence of the DVLA's dealing with such vehicles also suggest that they don't consider it a problem to have a Recovery truck on an Historic Vehicle tax class??

My brothers Explorer was a Mobile crane before going 25 years tax exempt, then Historic, and I was the first to register my Explorer for the road in 2005, and the DVLA never commented when making it Historic.

Jules

Surely the defining definition of "Historic Vehicle" is any vehicle manufactured before 1 Jan 1973?

Obviously if you want to use a recovery vehicle manufactured before that date commercially, then you need to Tax it as Recovery, have the correct insurance, and correct driving licence class. If you only want to use it to recover for FUN then I would understand Historic Vehicle to be fine, again assuming the correct insurance, and licence?

Having jumped through all the hoops to prove the age of my Explorer (1954) there was no problem with registering it as Historic, indeed I've been led to believe it would be far more difficult to change it from Historic to another class!

Jules

Interesting news and interesting comments. Can I just bring in a bit of pre-emptive moderation here before the thread continues and say overtly political comment is a no-no. There has been none so far by my interpretation, so this is not a dig at previous postees. Thank you.

Whilst I agree entirely that HMVF is not a political forum, and that political comment is not why people join the forum, it cannot escape anyones understanding that nearly everything in our hobby is in one way or another affected by legislation, good or bad, brought about by either our elected politicians or the less elected European ones.

As I stated in my leading thread, this threat to our hobby doesn't affect me as I only have firearms which still go BANG. However from previous experience with the ban on pistols, I think it is only right to give people the opportunity to discuss all aspects of potential legislation which is to be brought in, and agree a way forward, e.g. write to your MP etc, petitions, a campaign. The shooting community failed totally as those without pistols tended to react with the phrase "I'm alright Jack!", splitting an already small minority.

I think most forum members have the common sense not to make comments personal etc, and should understand that if Deacs are banned then what next? The right to take your classic vehicle on the road? M.O.T's for all vehicles? Who can guess what will happen next, but none of it should be allowed to pass into law without a great deal of discussion, and a good fight!

Jules

Frankly I can't understand why it's taken you so long Lt. Col. Fowler!!

Maybe too much time spent drooling over other Scammells, whilst cruelly neglecting your Daisy, not to mention the time taken for trips out swanning around in Constructors, and all those photos, and posts too.

Hope you get her finished before the fuel runs out!

Jules

I noticed tucked away in paper this Sunday that there is to be an announcment this week of the tightening of the Laws relating to deactivated guns. Another hopeless piece of unnecessary legislation targeting the innocent, leaving the lowlives untouched!

Fortunately not something that has a direct effect for me, but I'd hate to go to shows where so many are dressed perfectly in period uniforms, but with no weapons! Be prepared to be made a criminal overnight, find yourself needing a licence, or have to sign on a danger to the public register??? Perhaps?

Jules

Thats interesting - thanks Grumpy. I wasn't aware that HGV testing stations can or will carry out such voluntary tests!!

 

I've used my own Tapley meter up till now but, as you say in the later post, being able to wave a piece of official paper under the relevant authorities noses would have more weight behind it. I think I'll have a word with the local HGV testing station - I believe it's at Thurrock or Purfleet and see what they say....

 

 

(Knowing my luck with anything VOSA related they will take one look at the Stalwart and say "We ain't touching that"!)

I think you will be better saving your £18, as I think you will find VOSA will only offer you a Tapley test unless it's just a piece of official paper that you want?. I think you'll find that the drive set up on the Stalwart will not allow a roller brake test, as it will drive itself off the rollers. A friend who is a tester offered to test my Explorer, but could only test the front axle as the rear pairs of wheels are driven by gears in the final drives again driving it off the rollers.

Jules

Tap is a good idea, I am thinking of putting taps in the water hoses to the rear axle heat exchanger soon as there is water dripping from it, it may just be a hose clip needs tightening but they're rusty. it would be nice to be able to isolate it just in case, they have been known to split or corrode through.

What a great idea! I thought I'd solved the leak on my heat exchanger after W & P, having taken it off, and repaired a crack with chemical metal! Unfortunately it has started leaking again after a 3 hour stint dragging out an awkward and rather large oak butt! Back to square one again, with another 5 litres of anti-freeze on the ground. I'll have to have a hunt for some suitable taps, and test my spare exchanger. Both jobs for a quieter week.

Jules

Since a great majority of the large MV's driven by people are pre 1960, the drivers do not require an HGV licence, nor do the vehicles require an M.O.T. They are not only enthusists who in many cases know their vehicle better than any driver who drove them whilst in service, but since they own them they tend to be driven on the road with mechanical "sympathy". Who wants to smash their pride and joy?

Tracked vehicles of all ages, may require a tracked vehicle licence, but that can be obtained manouvering a mini digger around a set of cones in a field rather than a road test in an armoured vehicle. No M.O.T. test, and no medical required!

Judging by the cost of insurance for MV's which surely must be the best and most informed guide to the risk involved, from my own cost for two large trucks, the risk must be very low. Yet I can drive the Explorer on a car licence, but the Militant being post 1960, needs an HGV class C, and I have to go through the hassle of testing it annually, and will have to sort medicals etc at the age of 45 to keep driving it? All for less than 1000 miles a year.

If there is a loophole in changing to MPV, then why not use it. As with any rule, regulation, people will often use it to their benefit if possible, and why not? How many people have used their Reo's or Deuces to move house, or help a friend out by moving something that wont fit in the car, or towed a mates MV home (C + E?)?.....

If there comes a point where either I'm no longer fit to drive, or my vehicles are not fit for the road, then I won't be coming to the show, whatever class the vehicle is!

Jules

It is my understanding that a MPV carries the play equipment, or educational/instructional material. The MPV itself isn't the educational material. I am not so sure that a vehicle that is itself an exhibit, can actually be a MPV. If you had a low-loader to take a MV to a show. The Low-loader would be the MPV and the MV would be the educational/instructional equipment that is carried by it. For this reason I believe that it is highly unlikely that a MV can be viewed as an MPV. The low loader would have to be dedicated to this one task, never carry any general cargo, never carry a MV to any destination other than from show to show, and to a place of storage, never be used for hire and reward etc. It would make ownership of the Low loader very un-economic.

 

The MPV class is typically a bus, that carries play equipment, is kitted out with projectors, whiteboard, computers etc to give training or instrustion, or carries a mobile exhibition.

 

The bus itself is totally unremarkable, and in the case of carrying exhibition material, may actually be a lorry.

 

I know one person who carries police memorabilia around in a coach, and people enter it to view the material. I know another coach that carries model dioramas of battle scenes. These ARE MPV in sense the class was intended to be used.

Then how difficult is it to make some display boards, with photos and vehicle details, and other relevant articles to display, and carry them on your MV on the way to a show, road run, off road event, where at one time or other it is likely to be parked with the items "displayed"?

Is there a quantity or weight of such material required? Has anyone tried to do this?

I suspect as usual with this topic, and many of the other "legal" issues discussed before, it would almost certainly come down to the opinions of a particular official, on a particular day. Some would see no problem and grant the change without a second thought, whilst others others would laugh in your face and tell you absolutely no chance!

This is in the same league as having a Scammell Explorer registered as a tractor, as some are, or a mobile crane as some are, and yet once set as an Historic Vehicle I believe it is very hard to get a pre 1960 truck/ vehicle re-classified?

Jules

I would guess that the term "Jake brake" is a generic term for an exhaust brake, or the more sophisticated one changing valve timing. Whilt I doubt Bernards brake is manufactured by the company in question, they do manufacture "Jake exhaust brakes". I'm sure whoever made it, that Forceful will sound great coming down any steep hill !

All the best, Jules

As mentioned, Hastings was fine last year for my Militant Mk1, although they seemed to draw straws for who was going to be unlucky and have to test it! Fortunately the tester couldn't work out how to test the rear brakes (the Achilles heal through poor design), I wasn't going to tell him how, so we had a Tapley test instead! As is often the case even the so called professionals are only good at their job when in their "comfort zone". Anything out of the ordinary and they seem to struggle, and often play safe, which often wastes time and money for the owner un-necessarily.

Best of luck.

Jules

I've been going to post this for ages, but kept forgetting. Scanned from a wartime picture post in two sections in the Phillipines, emailed home, and with a bit of trial and error stitched together again.

Main reason was to give a copy to a friend who has the real thing, but a great ad anyway!

Jules

Absolutely! Of course! Not a lot, and none!

Jules

Mr.Cadman who organises the W & P show, spoke to various people today at a Militaria gathering in Warwick. He suggested that the Hop Farm was not sure about the show for 2010, and so he was considering finding a new site?? Whether this was a wind up, or an honest comment??? Only Mr.C. knows.

The only obvious extra reason is that the agreement with IMPS, who originally started the show runs out this year, hence they are setting up their own show with Headcorn aerodrome this year in August. So numbers could seriously drop at W & P in 2010?

Jules

As the area of the tip of the injector is probably less than 1/16 of a square inch the pressure on the end, even allowing for up to 700psi when running would only give about 40lbs of force.

As suggested warm the engine, soak with penetrating oil, and try again with a slide hammer. If this fails I would suggest a new head, or a good secondhand one. If new then buy an OEM one, as the repro ones often require more machining than the price difference covers!

Good luck!

Jules