Markheliops

Hi Caddy.

Thanks for the offer but I would imagine I'm going to need a manual detailing base repair as turret removal would certainly have been an ABRO related job.

When you say adjust the traverse and elevation clutches, do you mean to stop the turret creeping or something else?

Regards

Markheliops

hello Mark ,I have a nice OT 65 fug I bought from Richard Moore some years ago ,I dont have much paperwork either however I have the various levers translated and marked up I will take a few pictures next week end and send them on to you ,I think you might be heading my way in the next couple of weeks to see something else the FUG is quite close ?

Hi Robin

That would be most helpful - thank you.

Are you in Ireland by any chance?

Hi guys.

I'm in the process of beginning turret removal on a Chieftain MBT Mk10.

Could someone please point me in the direction of what manual (if any) will detail such a procedure?

If someone has the appropriate sections in a manual and could mail them to me - I'd be eternally grateful.

Thanks

Markheliops

Hi guys and girls.

Are there any members here who own a FUG OT65?

I'm working on such a vehicle and I have no paperwork, manuals or prior knowledge of the FUG.

I have serviced all the wheel hubs and braking system without any issues - pretty standard stuff really.

Where I am struggling is with operating procedures and identification of the drivers controls, etc.

I'm also a little lost in regard to identifying all the different levers, etc.

I have tried to google translate the controls and had some success but I'm really flying blind on this one.

Any help of advice greatly appreciated.

Ta

Markheliops

This is what I came up with.

I think it turned out okay -

The purists won't like it but it was done for charity fund raising so allowed!!!

The vehicles in question are the FV433 Abbott and the OT65 Fug.

Markheliops

Hmm, deciding on a colour in a black and white print...... It can only be a guess, educated none the less! It could be Khaki Green No 3 or SCC2 Brown depending on when in 1941 it was taken. It would also depend on the factories current stock of paint on that day.

Does this help Adrian.

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/tanks-and-more-tanks/query/Garfield

Issue date 10/07/1941

So guys -

Do we have a decision on this colour or are we guesstimating!

I think it is, technically, though I'm not sure you'd want to try it. There's certainly fittings for a screen around some of them and I'm sure I've seen photo's of mark 1s with a splash board mounted on the front.

Technically correct Lauren but I regard "proper" amphibious vehicles as those that plunge into the water and come out again without having to mess around with flotation screens and the associated messing about.

Mark

What do you mean by "long distances"? I'd suggest that no AFV is suitable for really long distance driving, either tracked or wheeled.

 

Andy

Quite correct Andy - I once covered 80 miles return trip in an FV432 (but it wasn't ideal) lol

I think you're right Adrian.

I have heard Khaki Green No3.

This is the tank in question.

Heliops

In '41, it'd be straight off to the desert?

 

http://www.mafva.net/other%20pages/starmer%20camo.htm

 

So, either Caunter or light stone depending on when in '41 it rolled off the lines.

No - Not off the factory floor - it's a shade of green.....................................

Not all tanks ended up heading for the desert but I see what you're getting at.

1st - Don't use Mortar Investments - Use STV Group (Same place, same stock, different people). Tell them Mark in the UK sent you.

2nd - Track vehicles are no more arduous to work on than wheeled vehicles. I know because I work on both.

3rd - FV432 APC is not amphibious.

If I had to pick a vehicle for your requirements I'd go for a BV206. Great fun, simple mechanics, loves the water, snow, mud and anything else you can throw at it. Road legal too.

If it has to be armoured, the Russian Czech kit is good but the width thing is an issue plus if it's tracked - driving on the road is a no no if it has metal tracks.

A FUG OT65 is a great piece of kit - not wide, simple mechanics, armoured and wheeled plus it loves water. Reasonably cheap too.

Markheliops

Markheliops

Hi all.

Would any of you knowledgeable chaps be able to tell me what colour a Matilda A12 Infantry tank, rolling straight off the factory line, would be?

A colour and a paint code would be most helpful.

Thanks guys.

Markheliops

dont be confused, no one seems to have the right answer for this. I would only use dot 4 if i had replaced all the fluid in the system first...this seems to work if you have a hydraulic russian system for the brakes. However if your fug manual says hydraulic oil what type of hydraulic oil does it mean is the question i suppose...I though the fug and the BRDM were initially using Castor oil.. however every vehicle we have had has had brake issues due to not knowing which oil to use...

 

I will check my manuals for ATM-!0

I have carried out some research on this and the ATM-10 seems to be an earlier version of OM15 as used in the Chieftain brake system...............

Thank you for the info Robin / Paulob1

I thought I had figured it out as I found ATM-10 is the same fluid listed for the hydraulic fluid tank, (according to the BRDM 2 manual) hence I thought it would be hydraulic fluid!

Now I am confused.................

Hi guys.

Does anyone KNOW what fluid goes into the Fug OT65 brake system?

Is it hydraulic or brake fluid.

The only reference I can find online is for a Russian BRDM 2 system that states the brake fluid as ATM-10

It also states there is no foreign substitute for this type of fluid!

The Fug OT65 is pretty much a BRDM vehicle except for the engine so it's the nearest comparison I can find.

Any ideas chaps.

Thanks

Markheliops

Hi Markheliops,

 

It did at one time have power assisted steering, but has been converted to standard.

We have found a leak between the reservoir and the tillers; it looks like when the engine pack was once changed they damaged the line underneath the fan. Either that or the line has been rubbing on the fan housing and finally given up.

 

I'm not too sure whether that is the only problem though, think at least one of the calipers are leaking, and the master cylinders are pretty worn.

 

Watch this space.....

Praise The Lord - someone else knows about the assisted steering system.

Someone tried to tell me a was talking tosh once in regard to the assisted steering.

It's quite easy to wallop the brake pipes when you lift either the T-piece or the pack.

Start with the issues you can see first as the steering system isn't too bad on the Chiefy compared to the wiring! Lol

I do have some calipers but see what you need first

Markheliops

We are definitely using the right oil type, can't be a 100% sure of the name, but something like OM15?

Hi there.

The leak won't be coming from the tiller master cylinders or the fluid would be all over the drivers compartment floor.

The pipe work is pretty simple in the hull but you may need to lift the box to investigate.

I lost my steering in Shrek and the problem was with a leaking brake calliper.

Now this may seem at odd with a lot of Chieftain boffins but:

Check to see if you have power assisted steering on your ARRV!

This is a system that not many Chieftains ever had fitted and the majority of Chieftain crewmen and REME chaps have never heard off.

Check to see how many pipes you have coming from a single brake calliper.

If there are two pipes, check to see if the extra pipe is connected to the gearbox and if it is, you have assisted steering.

I have this system fitted to my spare gearbox.

I'm in Australia at the mo but I'll be back next week and shall give you more info on the assisted steering issue.

Markheliops

Hi Special types vehicles used privately not for hire or reward are the same as HGVs used privately are taxed private Hgv £165 a year just registered one two weeks ago for private use .

Mark -

I'm interested in this as when I taxed the Scammell to allow me to transport the tank - I had to pay £1400 road tax for 6 months.

This is because a specific condition of being taxed / licensed under Special Types General Order (STGO Regs) is that the vehicle must be taxed appropriately.

I was informed by VOSA that moving the tank for my own use had no effect on the road tax amount I paid as if my vehicle was to be classed as "Special Types" I could only claim exemption from C&U Regs if the vehicle is taxed as STGO!

What did you tax as Private HGV and where did you find the info on taxing a Special Type Vehicle as a Private HGV.

It would really help me to find out as I don't like having to pay nearly £3000 a year to move my tank twice a year.

Ta

Mark

I'm still confused about this:

Neil - These are the exemptions allowed as per form V112G - MOT exemptions for HGV.

It is an offence under Section 53(2) of the Road Traffic Act 1988 under the Goods

Vehicle (Plating and Testing) Regulations 1988 or article 65 of the Road Traffic

(Northern Ireland) Order 1995 to use a vehicle without a test certificate on a public

road unless the vehicle is exempt from testing.

1. Dual purpose vehicles not constructed or adapted to form part of

an articulated vehicle.

2. Mobile cranes.

3. Breakdown vehicles.

4. Engineering plant and plant not being engineering plant, which is

movable plant or equipment being a motor vehicle or trailer (not

constructed primarily to carry a load) especially designed and

constructed for the special purposes of engineering operations.

5. Trailers being drying or mixing plant designed for the production

of asphalt or of bituminous or tar macadam.

6. Tower wagons.

7. Road construction vehicles and road rollers.

8. Vehicles designed and used solely for fire fighting or fire salvage

purposes.

9. Works trucks, straddle carriers used solely as works trucks, and

works trailers.

10. Electrically-propelled motor vehicles – As defined in 62(1A) of

VERA.

11. Vehicles used solely for one or both of the following purposes:

a. Clearing frost, ice or snow from roads by means of a snow

plough or smaller contrivance, whether forming part of the

vehicle or not, and

b. Spreading material on roads to deal with frost, ice or snow.

12. Lifeboat haulage.

13. Vehicles constructed or adapted for, and used primarily for the

purpose of carrying equipment permanently fixed to the vehicle

which equipment is used for medical, dental, veterinary, health,

educational, display, clerical or experimental laboratory purposes,

such use:

a. Not directly involving the sale, hire or loan of goods from the

vehicle, and

b. Not directly or indirectly involving drain cleaning or sewerage

or refuse collection.

14. Trailers which have no other brakes than a parking brake and

brakes which automatically come into operation on the over-run

of the trailer.

15. A motor vehicle at a time when it is being used on a public road

during any calendar week if:

a. It is being used only in passing from land in the occupation

of the person, keeping the vehicle to other land in his

occupation, and

b. It has not been used on public roads for distances exceeding

an aggregate of six miles in that calendar week and to a trailer

drawn by a motor vehicle that is being used on a public road

in such circumstances.

For the purposes of this paragraph ‘public road’ means a road

which is repairable at the public expense.

16. Agricultural motor vehicles and agricultural trailed appliances.

17. Agricultural trailers and agricultural trailed appliance conveyors

drawn on roads only by an agricultural motor vehicle.

18. Converter dollies used solely for the purposes of agriculture,

horticulture and forestry, or for any one or two of these purposes.

19. Public service vehicles.

20. Licensed taxis.

21. Vehicles used solely for the purpose of funerals.

22. Goods vehicles to which any of the prescribed construction

and use requirements do not apply by virtue of either GB or NI

Construction and Use Regulations namely:

a. Item 1 (which relates to vehicles proceeding to a port for

export).

b. item 4 (which relates to vehicles in the service of a visiting

force or of a headquarters).

23. Vehicles equipped with a new or improved equipment or types

of equipment used, solely by a manufacturer of vehicles or their

equipment or by an importer of vehicles, for or in connection with

the test or trial of any such equipment.

24. Motor vehicles brought into United Kingdom and displaying a

registration mark mentioned in the Motor Vehicles (International

Circulation) Regulations, a period of 12 months not having

elapsed since the vehicle in question was last brought into the

United Kingdom.

25. Motor vehicles in respect of which a test certificate issued in

accordance with Article 34 of the Road Traffic (Northern Ireland)

Order 1981 (a) is in force or which are for the time being licensed

under the Vehicles (Excise) Act (Northern Ireland) 1972 (b).

26. Vehicles having a base or centre in any of the following islands,

namely Arran, Bute, Great Cumbrae, Islay, Mull, Tiree or North

Uist from which the use of the vehicle on a journey is normally

commenced.

27. Motor vehicles in respect of which a goods vehicle test certificate

under section 49 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 is in force.

28. Goods vehicles not exceeding 3,500 kilograms in respect of

which a vehicle test certificate, under section 45 of the Road

Traffic Act 1988, is in force.

29. Trailers brought into the United Kingdom and having a base or

centre in a country outside the United Kindom from which the use

of the vehicle on a journey is normally commenced, a period of 12

months not having elapsed since the vehicle in question was last

brought into the United Kingdom.

30. Track-laying vehicles.

31. Industrial tractors (NI).

32. Steam propelled vehicles.

33. Motor vehicles first used before 1 January 1960, used unladen

and not drawing a laden trailer, and trailers manufactured before 1

January 1960 and used unladen.

For the purposes of this paragraph any determination as to when

a motor vehicle is first used shall be made as provided in GB and

NI Construction and Use Regulations.

34. Motor vehicles constructed, and not merely adapted, for the purpose

of street cleansing, or the collection or disposal of refuse or the

collection or disposal of the contents of gullies and which are either:

a. Three wheeled vehicles, or

b. Vehicles which:

(i) are incapable by reason of their construction of exceeding

a speed of 20 miles per hour on the level under their own

power, or

(ii) have an inside track width of not more than 1100 millimetres.

35. Vehicles designed and used for the purposes of servicing or

controlling or loading or unloading aircraft while so used

a. On an aerodrome as defined in the Civil Aviation Act for GB

and defined in the Airports (Northern Ireland) Order.

b. On roads outside such an aerodrome/airport if, except when

proceeding directly from one part of such aerodrome/airport

to another part thereof the vehicles are unladen and are not

drawing a laden trailer.

36. Vehicles designed for use, and used on an aerodrome/airport

mentioned in paragraph 35, solely for the purpose of road

cleansing, the collection or disposal of refuse or the collection or

disposal of the contents of gullies and cesspools.

37. Vehicles provided for police purposes.

38. Heavy motor cars or cars constructed or adapted for the purpose

of forming part of an articulated vehicle and which are used for

drawing only a trailer falling within a class of vehicle specified in

paragraph 13, 14 or 15 of this schedule or a trailer being used

for or in connection with any purpose for which it is authorised

to be used on roads by an order under Section 44(1) of the 1988

Act for GB and Article 60(1) of the 1995 Order for NI, being an

order authorising that trailer or any class or description of trailers

comprising that trailer to be used on roads.

39. Play buses.

40. Trailers, not being converter dollies or semi-trailers, the unladen

weight of which does not exceed 1,020 kilograms (NI only).

41 Living vans the design gross weight of which does not exceed 3500kg.

When you completed your V112G - what number did you use when filling out the form?

Markheliops

If your testing station is like the Purfleet one - you will be turned away and told to fill in the exemption form as (I was told when I tried it) VOSA Health and Safety doesn't let their inspectors climb more than X amount from the floor. The roof hatches on a Stolly are somewhat above this level. They were prepared to use the Tapley meter to test braking so no problem with the permanent 6x6. If you have seat belts fitted they need to work - and not just for the obvious reasons. Stamp hard on a Stollys brakes and you can get the front of the hull almost parallel to the ground so anything not secured in the cab goes forwards. Fast..

Neil -

I'd be very interested to see exactly what exemption VOSA would expect you to use in regard to the vehicle access point being too high! There is an exemption list set in stone and nowhere does it allow for an exemption where the testers refuse to test the vehicle.

Interesting point about the vehicle being over-width though.

Stalwarts cannot be classed as a Special Types vehicle by their design. If they were, then you would be paying nearly £3000 a year road tax. I think you meant Special Class Mark but if you look at the Special Class vehicle list it is quite specific to exactly what vehicles fit into the Special Class type and from my reading, a Stalwart does not fit into that category.

It does pose the question as to how Stalwart owners are getting away with using their vehicles on the road!

I'm all ears so perhaps Stolly owners can advise me on this issue as I'd like to put the Stolly on the road but it would appear this is a licencing nightmare!

Markheliops

Mark, don't bugger the transmission on the brake rollers ! I will be interested how they apply the 75% tare weight! with a bit of luck you will be waved through that bit if confusion reigns.

As I understand from VOSA John - they will use similar to one of those portable meters, if they bother at all.

Okay guys and gals

I've been on to VOSA and can now confirm the 1963 Stalwart DOES need an MOT / Plate cert.

This should be an interesting saga and I will inform you of the results when the Stolly visits the MOT station.

Markheliops

Hi all.

Not wanting to open a can of worms again BUT:

We have a 1962 Stalwart in the collection and from my reading of the LGV MOT exemptions paper, I have come to the conclusion the Stalwart is NOT MOT exempt due to its weight and age being post 1960.

Am I correct in my interpretation of the regulations as it would seem many Stalwart owners and alike are claiming MOT exemption.

Pre-1960 vehicles I can understand but am I missing some obscure regulations as to why the Stolly shouldn't be subject to an MOT?

Many thanks

Markheliops