Tugger

A second GPMG mount... thanks DLR for 'making' me spend my beer tokens

We had this very conversation in the group I was with during the week, I love W&P and WPR, for me it's a combination of the hobby I love and catching up with some really great friends once a year, there are probably many in the same situation and for that reason there will no doubt always be a 'hardcore' base that will attend pretty much no matter what... I certainly lump myself in with that.

That aside, I do feel there is a certain lack of atmosphere at Folkestone that Beltring had, the site's shape (the loop so to speak) means that day visitors have to embark on a considerable trek to work the site with little or no option other than to continue round the whole race course, whereas at Beltring the paths and layout were such that one could dip in and out of the various fields making the walk as long or short as required (great for tired children believe me!). Then of course at Beltring there was the unsurpassable viewing hill for the arena... what better spot to enjoy a cold drink, rest your feet or have a spot of lunch whilst being thoroughly entertained by the various goings-on.

From there, the living history was contained in an area but before Witham's had their way by taking over one end, it was a large area but concentrated the LH encampments. I feel this enhanced the experience, they do seem comparatively diluted and spread out at Folkestone.

Again from the arena at Beltring it was only a few yards to the trade stalls. All this meant that anything could be accessed easily without too much slogging cross country, Folkestone seems so much more spread out, a visit to Kitchener's field didn't even feature on my week.

It also seemed there was a noticeable lack of heavy armour this year, we came to the conclusion that if the arena isn't that exciting to drive with space to get up speed and undulations and bomb-holes to tackle and 'show off', there is little else to tempt their owners to the show, thinking of what must be massive running costs for these beasts, without this encouragement they're not going to return. They have an undisputable draw to the public and without them the interest will wane.

There are plenty of completely justified comments on the vastly improved showers and toilet facilities at Folkestone, and I agree fully with them, but since these are mobile facilities I cannot understand why on earth these could not have been implemented sooner at Beltring after the years of complaints.

Whatever the various pros and cons though, For me it's not the site that will drive me away, It's the good company that keeps me there... no matter where, but if they stop going and do more local shows so shall I.

I can't see everyone being as tolerant though.

Admittedly it was last week, but on our family trip over to Wales on Sun 13th April we saw 3 Challenger IIs on 3 Osh Kosh transporters on the M4 near Cardiff, I was more exited than my son of 7! A friend on Facebook saw the same independently to me and said there were more.

I had heard the MC story from the family. He was made a 2nd Lieutenant in 1915 so he might have just scraped in

(look for Robert (Withers Jacomb*) Gibbon) bottom left hand column

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/29396/supplements/12296/page.pdf

Bob, I'm just gald the pics are proving interesting. I'm in it for the info, anything extra is a boon to be honest.

* Oh my lucky brother

Could the photo with the word that looks like Cheer be "Le Gheer" near to Ploegsteert in Belgium ?

Regards

Gary

Indeed, Thanks for the clues there. I don't think it would be unreasonable to assume that the photographed building would have been somewhere along here judging by the mansard roof line and brick work. It would also make sense that he was in the Ploegsteert area.

As I say, we had a bit of info, but no idea of location and this surely near enough pin-points it.

I have since found out from some online sites that he was in the Royal Field Artillery (then to become the Royal Horse Artillery) operating in the Ploegsteert wood

We Knew he had been awarded the Military Cross at some point, but it looks like that was in 1916 (when he was 19). although I'm not sure entirely how to decipher the medal card attached :undecided:

Tony, thanks, will look into the cavalry school.

The church is Ploegsteert Church, see link for photos from the IWM, there's probably a good chance that some of the other photos might check out with the IWM pictures shown on this link.

 

http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/search?query=Ploegsteert&submit=&items_per_page=10

 

Regards

Gary

Thanks also Gary,some great info to follow up. A great way to spend a quiet Sunday at work.

It's amazing that both of you recognise these things. It's been said before by others but just to reiterate... This site and it's frequenters never ceases to impress!

...And the last four, thanks again and I'm glad they're gaining so much interest. It seemed pretty apt to post them as this is the centenary year and that we only re-discovered them last month. It makes so much sence to share them before they get stored away again.

The rest of the pics as promised in the OP edit

'Dead Hun'This was the only picture with anything written on the back

Thank you for sharing those.

 

They look much more real than the images we are used to seeing with the newsprint type image in War Illustrated etc.

 

That prickly truncheon looks quite sobering.

It does indeed, There are a few 'less pleasant' ones in the last batch but felt needed to be included but really interesting is the explosion over 3 frames... not sure how this was done or if they indeed were different bomb blasts.

Just thought I'd put some of these here.

Recently my Uncle uneartherd some photos taken by and of my Grandfather when he was serving in France between 1914 and 1918.

Now unfortunately he died around 1953 and there are no definitive photos of him as my Grandmother disposed of anything relating to him after his death (possibly partly as a result of his alcoholism in later life) and as such neither my Father or Uncle can be sure which of the pics are of him (although we think one of the gentlemen on a horse might be him).

Neither can we be sure when or where these were taken, we do know that he was a spotter for a period and think that the pictures of the barrage baloon are of the type that he would have been in as it was sent skyward so they could keep tabs on enemy positions. Also of interest are the pics of the 'fake tree trunk' hide out constructed to allow spotters to have an elevated view with some sort of camouflage.

There are 164 pictures all told

EDIT: Following on from a couple of comments regarding copyright I have adjusted the pictures as such, however should anyone want to reproduce them for non financial gain, on the understandingpicture credit is acknowledged I would be more than happy for the originals to be used. Also due to interest I have added the rest of the pictures at the end of the thread as it is at the moment (page 3)

Many thanks for your interest

:wow: Just wow!

I popped along yesterday with a friend and my kids. Fantastic weather and a great show. Great sized arena, plenty of room on site to grow year on year. Lets hope it gets the support it deserves.

You would not get away with mounting them on the nearside ( that is a recent thing that was previously illegal, probably EC regulation ) or putting them on a vehicle that was more recent.

I only mention out of curiosity as my plates are mounted off centre, infact on the offside end of the bumper and only off side by chance as I didn't know this, however I notice that most modern Alfa's have offset plates and they're all on the nearside:undecided:

If anyone there could pop along to the Shackleton cockpit section down from Coventry and say "Tugger says hello" to my friend Mark, He'd appreciate the support. He's a big fella, little hair and a top chap.

Cheers:D

B****R, I forgot about this one, Right on my doorstep too and I was at a loose end! Would have happily taken the Landy along.

Hope it went well, would love to see more local stuff and I feel guilty I didn't support it:blush:

wow ex usaf opel estate and ex usaf ldv van worth the war and p entry price alone to see those two beauties !

Aaargghh! This is exactly the point!

It doesn't matter whether they're your cup of tea or not, the fact is they're genuine MV's, I could say OooooOOoooh another Jeep, they're hardly rocking horse poo.

I agree that civvie vehicles should be tightned up on but it's not as simple as a blanket ban, for example the VW bus of previous years with the Rolling Thunder display is obviously civvie, but worked brilliantly with the display. I agree with Lee about the ownership of a vehicle doesn't dispensate someone bringing anything into the 'Green Zone'. that's surely exactly what the support area is for.

Would look better on a Reo Tony, that term wasn't used during WW2.

And since 'Deuce' is a 'two of' card, it doesn't really work either;)

Quite cunningly...and I'm sure it wasn't by accident, you might have found that most of the major/larger stalls were laid out similarly to where you would have normally found them. Good planning there I thought.

I hope no one minds me starting a thread for this, but I think it is worthy of a seperate thread to the 'Reporting Live' one. (Perhaps a freindly Mod could pull out the posts from that one that might be better suited here.)

I just got back from a fantastic few days of great company and El Alamein weather conditions.

I will happily admit I liked Beltring's layout, it was cosy, we knew where things were, but there is no doubt there was room for improvement with regard the facilities.

As mentioned elsewhere we do invariably 'fear change' and over time become accustomed to what we're used to and whether we have issues with the old or not, will allways try to find fault in what it's replacement is. With this in mind I think it's worth while listing the good points and those that could do with a bit of attention (in a constructive way please otherwise it just becomes a bitch-fest)

• Loved the size of living history and the fact you could look over the area from a higher vantage point.
  
• Although the oneway system worked I must agree that taking the vehicles through the arena will need looking at in the future, also it was noted that on one of the evening drive-outs all the vehicles led by a marshall went the wrong way causing confusion with oncoming traffic obeying the one way system.
  
• The Showers and loos; It was lovely to have an increase in the numbers available and there is nothing that can be done about the amounts of dust traipsed in and becoming muddy. It was impressive that there were very noble ladies stationed at the shower blocks during the day and they did their best battling the conditions I note though that other than a bit of 'spattering' and that resulting from flushing issues, there is no excuse for the filth generated in the loos. My 3 year old has batter toilet etiqute (for want of a better phrase) and to think we're supposed to be dealing with adults:undecided:. There were issues regarding water pressure which resulted backing up loos, (really not pleasant) and cold dribbly showers (inconvenient at best...soapy and unrinsed at worst)
  
• The Arena; Sadly I didn't get to see too much of this however I did think that compared to Beltring, the lack of a bank was evident and sadly missed. The bank provided a perfect place to watch the arena goings-on whilst having a rest from the stalls or wandering around the vehicles. As it is now means there will be fewer spectators able to see and indeed willing to do so if they've got to stand or peer through 3 or 4 people in front. The grandstands are unfortunately too far away to be of much use in this respect.
  
• Kitchener's field really needs some surface work before it can be used to camp on. The stubble /weeds were pretty prevelant throughout and aren't an ideal campsite.
  
• Food; the same old burger vans were pretty poor value but hey ho all the more reason to either supply your own or support the fantastic local facilities and to this end I cannot praise the Airport Cafe highly enough. The Naafi Shop was handy but crikey the prices were pretty extravagant, and clearly marked up hugely from the local Tesco. The excuse that they had to pay for their site and overheads doesn't wash as surely this is a facility put on by the W&P organisers rather than a 3rd party and as such needn't pay the organisers for the pitch
  

All in all I thought it was a good show and a great turnout, I think on the whole people will forgive the majority of the issues as obviously being a first year at a new site there are going to be teething problems and areas that can be addressed, but I think if they are not acted upon people will very quickly get fed up again.

I'm not griping, I loved being there and will certainly come back but will I bring my own food?...Well yes I always do, own shower?...probably. Hire a loo?...as a group probably but huge thanks to all involved in putting it on.