cosrec

Note shows engines in frame

For the same reason the engines are frequently removed during recovery operations- simply to make things easier. As it is, the engines put a lot of weight to one side of the load, which can cause the load to twist and potentially damage it. This is the same regardless of whether the aircraft crashed 70 years ago or yesterday.

 

Also I'm not sure what sources the article you quoted used, my mention that the aircraft would come up in two pieces was through a conversation with a member of the RAF Museum staff involved in the operation. However this was some months ago so the recovery team may have decided otherwise but I doubt it.

The recovery methodology includes a bespoke lifting frame which will be employed to retrieve the Dornier from the seabed. Of modular construction the frame will be assembled around the aircraft, the lower sections being inserted beneath the wings and rear fuselage before attachment to the upper lifting portion (once on the surface this structure will also be employed as a transport cradle).

Lifting Frame Design

raf museums web site there is a drawing on but it hasnot pasted in

www.rafmuseum.org.uk

How about jacking up one wheel to check what is happening with diff and diff lock? (quick way :-D)

Yep thats another way

Some people just like to criticise....... I wonder what they themselves have achieved?

May not be rich but seen life upset a few plonkers on the way and enjoyed every momment of it will put a full CV on if it helps

That is really helpful, thanks. Does engaging the diff lock pressurize the airpot or release pressure from it?? Are the airpots prone to seize up inside or is it the external linkages that seized? A suppose a good spray of wd40 will help? Rgds, Dan

PS I went to Llandudno at w/e where I got a big snatch block which I believe is for this truck. It looks sound.

The snatch block is worth its wieght in gold if you ever had to use it in anger. Is it a Fellows or Ansell if so you would be suprised what dealers/ operators will pay for them. Wether you use it or not keep it well greased and spinning it wont lose money

The air pot relies on pressure to engage the difflock. The air pot cant sieze as such it only has a rubber diaphram in it . On mine the clevis pin through the yolk had siezed. But the shaft through the axle could possibly sieze also.

If after using mine with diff locks all round i still find the front one still sticks in some times despite knowing every thing is free ( my wiring to warning light is still shot) Symptom the Steering fights back when pulling ot of field in lock on to hard road. Only cure i have found is get vehicle running straight eg wheels straight ahead stop reverse then start again

Is there a some way to tell, visually, if diff locks are locked (stuck) in the engaged position? Rgds, Dan

Start with the front axle looking at the airpot that engages it. Make sure the arm it presses is as far to the left as it will go and has slack on the clevis eg got movement on it. My one had not the clevis was siezed and took a heft smack with hammer to retract the air pot fully . after you have done this on the front axle you will sus what i mean and then check the other three each rear axle and inter axle lock. Will put some pics on if it helps. once this is sorted the warning lights on the dash should tell if they are engaged or not (tongue in cheek cos the wiring to all mine was shot)

Hi Steve,I had to replace the short shaft on the offside front it is a major strip out to get the shaft out.so I like yourself have become fanatical about keeping them well greased,I don't quite know how they sheared the shaft in two must have had the axle locked and crossed on the road.i will post some pics of the strip out.

Regards,

Andy butler

cheers would appreciate that although hope i dont have to do it regards Steve

Do you criticise the likes of Amac for his efforts in restoring a Loyd Carrier, arguably from a far worse state than this Dornier?

No far from it his carrier is salvagable to the piont it will propabley be driving about that pile of ferric/aluminum oxide what ever condition it comes to the surface in will never represent the machine that went down.

Actually, last I heard it was coming up in two main pieces- the fuselage, with tail will come up as one piece, and the wings will come up as a second. The Dornier 17 (among a large number of planes) was designed to manufactured in that way- the fuselage would be made as a single piece and then the wing centre section would be inserted into the gap on top. The plan as i heard it would be to attempted to remove the rivets holding the wing centre section on. I believe they may be bringing the engines up seperately.

Why are the engines coming up seperatly is it because the they were ripped off or because they have rotted off to the point where they will fall off anyway

Wrong i am all for the restoration of old vehicles but i am also of a mind that sometimes common sense says enough is enough. This is when the item retrieved bears no resambalnce to the item its supposed to be. To me common sensense says a multi metal structure will not have faired well after 70years submergance in sea water and galvanic reaction. I hope for the museums sake i am wrong but despite quotes of it being in good condition i think it will be worse than most peoples percieved idea of good.

Below an extract from an an article on this topic.

Underwater footage of the wreck shows it largely intact. Some parts are missing - the bomb bay doors, the cockpit glazing, the undercarriage doors. Probably these were torn off during the forced landing. But the fuselage, the wings, the engines and propellers are still there. And so is the landing gear, complete with fully inflated tyres.

But Bob Peacock, the local diver and marine archaeologist who first found the wreck and shot the footage, says it's in a delicate condition. Lifting and conserving it won't be easy.

At the German Technical Museum in Berlin, they have considerable experience of raising WWII planes from water. The museum's Prof Holger Steinle showed me the aluminium tail section of a Focke Wulf Condor. It was unrecognisable, badly eaten away, and held together largely by the limpets and barnacles attached to it.

Dorniers too, he says, were made of aluminium, which corrodes badly in sea water. He warns his colleagues in Britain not to expect too much. "In 20, 30 years you will find nothing from that Dornier. So try it. But you should not be highly optimistic. Do it, but don't start dreaming too early."

Also the article states a frame is being constructed to lift the plane in one go i guessed this included engines so have they ripped of on impact or rotted off with time. So Is it a fairly well preserved £325.000 + final bill craft or a split teabag ?? we should know soon

Quite right it is not up to me to object but i am allowed an opinion.

being a one off dont make something priceless

the item that comes off the seabed wont bear any resembalance to the object that flew 70 years ago unless more vast amounts of money are spent stopping it turning to a pile of aluminium and ferric oxide. even then joe public wont recognise it for what it is.

I dont believe the operation will bring to light any scientific discoveries in the design of the craft or how to preserve it.

No i see no other reason for it to be salvaged other than its there and doable at a price.

One other thing its being recovered in one piece who will get the job of chopping it up to transport it to Hendon.

Although i had a chunter about a 1:1 scale model of a tank on here i think if the museum wants an example of Dornier it would have been better of with a model at a fraction of the cost

For give me for being ignorant on this subject but why is £350,000 being spent on raising a plane thats proable only claim to fame is it bombed a chip shop. Why not let enthusiasts in Germany sort it out if its of such great importance

Once its up and out of the water it will cost an arm and leg to preserve it then what it has no relavance to the Uk

The only thing this operation will do is kudos to the the people carring out this recovery not preserving the memory of the the people who lost their lifes purely showing that it can be done to me now its grave robbing

while i was greasing truck i had back legs down and i put a hefty blob of grease under the springs and on top of the axle casings. been for a run today and the banging under axle wind up has gone may not be the approved way but its quitened it down.

Air cleaner was in a proper state although to be fair its the first time i have looked since getting truck and when the vehicle was first delivered covered in the finest sand /dust i have ever seen. All oilevels were checked and no signs of any bad leaks. While i was underneath i removed the tranfer box oil pump and stripped it examining for wear. Thankfully it seemed perfect. I am paranoid about this pump as i had one cock up on a gun tractor that i ran and it cost me a lot of money to rebuild the transfer box. I think it well worth a hours labour for peace of mind. Tomorrow its its change engine oil filters steam off and if time may give it a quick flash over with the spray gun where its looking a bit rough. Nothing fancy though as it will be going into firms colours when we can get our spray man motivatete.

Been fairly busy with foden of late alas only got a few pictures of jobs. Anyway today its first proper suspend tow on a Renault premium artic that had flipped completely upside down. Quite impressed how it handled it so much so i thought it earned a service. First of greased it all up every grease nipple except for front spring hanger pins went first time and soon had fresh grease pumping out (used 8 catridges). Piont to note for other owners front cross jionts had rust and water coming out so will keep an eye on these as they look expensive and bad to change. While greasing found various loose brackets and air leaks all were dead simple jobs and soon fixed

If you look at the picture closely, I believe the larger diameter drum does not have more capacity than the "standard " drum, however, the larger drum would change the "gearing ratio" and it would spool up faster.

 

John G

Hi sorry so long replying have only just go broadband back on. Re holmes wreckers on 969 I am 99 % sure that all the 969 Ts left the Chattanoga factory fitted with the w45 crane fitted except a very few early ones that had W35 cranes. The w35 is a very similar to the w45 except it was never fitted with the side legs and i believe never left the US mainland.

Now the one in you picture is a very curious beast. From what i can see the crane has been modified a great deal and is definitly not as it left the factory. To me it looks like it was reworked not prior to the mid 50s. Why do i guess this the drum is the standard Holmes 750 fabricated steel drum prior to this the 750 had a cast iron drum. But that is not all the uprights the drum is mounted is also off the Holmes 750. If you look the original was a tubular frame. The actual booms were always available in two lengths but only the shorter were supplied in the war time contracts to mod.

To me it seems that the modifications were done imediately prior to the Swiss aquiring them and with the approval of the Holmes corparation or after aquiring but again with cooparation from the Holmes factory. Will look into it a bit more

take it one step at a time but i think your front diff lock may be stuck in as well read my post from way back.

also if you watch vidieo you will hear bangs about three more times just as truck disappears from sight each time as it changes direction. When you are sat in truck in it can sound like a pile drive driver and make you jump

Welcome to the world of Foden. Right now i feel you must be really worried about the state of the transmission on your new truck and see ££££ disappearing from your bank account. Sounds like a pile driver when you wind the axles up on a tight corner worse if you have any diff locks in.

Relax as far as i am aware they all do it. If you look at ends of rear springs they are located on top of axles in castings with a fair amount of sideways play the clunks bangs are simply when the tyres wind up lets go and the springs bang in to the side of the casting. Put a vidieo on of one of our old foden civillian wrecker doing same thing had quite a few different make trucks do it.

Note to moderators i have desparatly tried to find link to insert this but is not available on my menu so accept my apologies for forth coming bollocking

note to Marmite i have recent pictures from attempt to post on recovery theme and your advise i also remember from a long time back how to display you tube link but i am not getting these options where am i going wrong

yes is possible to start and run with cab up use standard hydraulic oil no need to bleed just turn from lock to lock then centralise then check again

I like going out to the green fleet stuff great when you go to a Wolf or Daf and you say I've got one of these

i dont go out to them that oftence now but have been amazed over the years reasons why vehicles cant be driven. I picked one up from a police station in Hull in the middle of the night driven by two MPs who had just picked up a very sorry looking squadie and they refused to drive the landrover back up North as it had a headlight out on main beam

Thanks that would be great , I did notice the kick down switch ( I'm guessing?) was adjusted up too much ( new cab) so much that the throttle pedal operated it at only half throttle when I'm thinking the kick down should work at nearly full throttle , also there is some sort of throttle position sensor on fuel pump linkage with a low and high mark which corresponds to pedal position . At idle the marker was inline with the low but no where near the high mark when operated to touch kick switch so I have adjusted kick down switch to what I think ? And now with a slight adjustment to sensor arm the the marker now is inline with high line and kick down only works at nearly full throttle . Not sure if this is near correct or will make any odds but looks more sense but can always move back if ness . ? Do you know what that throttle angle sensor does please .

Not driven yet as sump leak and split front engine mounts to do first

thanks martin

Dont know for sure but i think you have adjust speed limiter although it wont have altered its maximum set speed. Havnt got the drops anymore so cant check. to put your mind at rest the Drops i had did the same as yours when i first got it i filled with oil and it was erratic on gearchange but it was at the time a couple years ago when temp was droping to -12 -16 as tempretures came back up or it did longer runs it worked perfect. It could seem harsh on changes if you floored it all the time but if you didnt go to harsh it was very smooth. Also had problem with it not always getting full air pressure on i think no 3 tank. This used to cause it to slam down a gear if you were on trailing throttle and then tried to accelerate.Also make sure retarder button has not stuck on

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Front winch, Hot tip when winching under load and you stop, you need to winch out before winching in as the action of the spirod braking gears can cause the rope to snap.

john

Bit more info please i have three of these winches how does it over load rope

Hi There `i served 22 yrs as recy mech and used and Instructed on the Foden Eka,

I see youve extended the boom, the Axles fitted are GKN rated at 10t each whats your max lift going to be and how will you get around overloading the axles, as we were always told that we were overloading them as soon as we put Bogie blocking in and when we had a land rover on support never mind bigger stuff, althought there were never any cases of the military being prosecuted even when Crown Exemption was removed many moons ago

John

When Crown Exemption was removed many moons ago is that when the army started using the AA to arrange on road recoveries for them