79x100

I quite agree, Ron, it looks as if there may have been something but few WD bikes are seriously faked. If it was a pre-war Norton Inter or a Tiger 'undred, then I might expect some careful removal.

In the UK, I know someone who would probably be able to give it a serious forensic examination and bring any numbers up but I have no idea if that could be carried out in The Netherlands.

My experience with Nortons suggests that after 1940 or so, new spare-part frames and engines were supplied un-stamped. It's not inconceivable that a bike was put together from spare parts.

Personally, with the current moves towards defining 'Historic Vehicles' in Europe, I wouldn't even consider a purchase without first having good high resolution photos of all numbers looked at by someone who knows the make and model.

There are some real re-stamped nasties out there.

The motorcycle is a Norton 16H. Quite an early one as it has the centrally mounted speedo and even has a rubber on the gearchange, so probably pre-war.

The lamp reflector has rotated a lot as the blacked-out half is now vertical but bearing in mind that the small pilot bulb opening should be below the main aperture, it had clearly already turned a bit before they painted the blackout !

The Norton factory assembly books refer to WD wheels being painted after assembly so you're achieving the correct effect, Ron. I did the same with my Norton wheels to no ill effect. A sound wheel is just that, regardless of age. I was able to clean and re-use the bearings too.

Some of these 'BEF-Abandoned' bikes spent a long time hidden away and saw little further use (none in my case as it was damaged).

A brass magdyno identification plate ?

Norton (and prior to that Sturmey-Archer) gearboxes has blacked fittings long before wartime economy. I suspect that it was a realistic alternative to nickel and they simply didn't update when chrome was introduced. It has the advantage of not flaking. There is never much danger of a Norton box not having a protective oil film !

I wouldn't replate those dull chrome top levers. they're pristine.

As so often with this sort of research, the art is in knowing which questions to ask. Finding the answer is a lot easier then !

I don't know Enfields specifically but this sort of improvement wouldn't have been held back to wait for a contract change...and on Nortons at least, the printers reference dates on spare parts listings usually pre-date commencement of delivery - they were at the least typeset before production began.

According to Jan's lists, C8136 production ran from 5/6/1941 to 21/10/1941 and C8732 commenced at 27/10/41. It would be a surprise if the later stands had not been fitted to some or even all of C8136 for which the parts book would have gone to the printers in early 1941. It would certainly be wrong on a BEF bike though !

When will it be ready for me to have a ride on it, Ron ? :-)

No leaves on the trees and a high Germanic roof line. Operation 'Varsity' - Rhine Crossing ?

Are they still in a row as per the photo ? Is it dry land now ?

Is this it ?

http://www.militarymodelling.com/forums/postings.asp?th=105638

Loads on this thread including East Coast floods :- http://www.armorama.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=233381&page=1

It looks to be in really good nick, Ron. The only other early 'C' frame that I've looked at closely was Jan's and that wasn't in nearly such good condition.

Indeed, 'Linoleum' was linseed oil based (those of us old enough to remember making lino-cut prints at school will recall the smell !) - 'Rexine' must have had something similar - a canvas backing instead of jute and a component to keep it flexible (although eighty years seems to be pushing it)

Jan,  'M.A.P.' was Ministry of Aircraft Production.  They presumably had a 'pool' of motorcycles for messenger use.

I'm with you on that, Steve - but I'm quite glad that most people seem happy with vinyl - the same goes for cloth-covered control cables  :-)

Most of the recent NOS that I've seen seem to have been made by Brookes. They lack a rear stitched panel that was a feature of Terry and Lycett covers - but no-ones ever noticed on my 16H .

As far as I'm aware, the black sprung saddles on British motorcycles which first appeared during the late 1920s were never leather-covered, unlike the brown leather pan saddles fitted to many true vintage motorcycles.

They were covered with a leathercloth, in most cases the 'Rexine' which Steve refers to. This was a linseed-based covering over a canvas backing. It was relatively 'hard' to the touch. Not soft and 'warm' like modern vinyls. Unfortunately, ICI appear to have stopped producing the upholstery grades during the 1960s, although specialist bookbinders have access to some very thin examples.

The non-availability of 'Rexine' is one of the greatest barriers to authenticity in the restoration of a 'post-vintage' motorcycle. New Old Stock WD covers (from the 1950s) do appear from time to time but they're not common and any original saddles are likely to be worn and fragile.

There are some harder grades of vinyl as used by car upholsterers with a more correct look than the mass-produced covers. Additionally, I've never seen an original example with that 90° corner to the back edge - although common on replicas, they always look wrong.

I don't believe that there has ever been documented evidence of the supply of canvas seat covers for motorcycles. The general view is that they were fitted as gunner's seats in some self-propelled guns.

Ron, I doubt if it's actually a Suzuki piston.  If it was from a 2-stroke it would have pegged rings. Probably just an old proprietary French make - Probably a down-market version of 'Omega' pistons :-)

I think you're right to replace the whole thing.  Too many unknowns to use in a high-revving comp bike like the Model C !

The 1940 French contract bikes were fitted with the pointed foot.

On the Norton WD16H, there is only one, on the front brake cam spindle. The civilian models didn't have it and it is listed in the factory records as  a WD 'Flip-Flap Oiler'. In view of the Mansell family Abingdon / Shelley Norton connection it is inevitable that they used an Abingdon oiler too.

We said that it was a good one, Ron ! Two flip-flap oilers though, I'm quite envious of that.

Baz, if you've ever shared it or posted it on line, it could be your one. I can't find out the original source. That's why I was reluctant to post it on the forum.

I've seen WD late 1930s cans in gloss bronze green and 1939 are usually Khaki Green so it seems likely that they would have been painted in the current vehicle colour.

"Buggers Up" Is that a technical term used in the electroplating trade or simply a leisure activity amongst old vehicle enthusiasts in Poole ?