David B.

I need some new inner tubes to fit to the tyres and wheels as above.

Firstly - does anyone know where I can get any unused tubes to specifically fit the 10.50 x 16 tyres and wheels please ?

Secondly - I have been told by a stockist of ex WD tyres that the 9.00 x 16 tube is fine to use with a 10.50 tyre. Is this in fact the case or should I really be looking to fit a 10.50/11.00 x 16 tube ?

Any leads on the whereabouts of a set of tubes or advice on the suitability of the 9.00 tube ,which should be available ,will be gratefully received.

David Belcher.

 

I have 2 of these '4.2" Mortar Trailers'. One is immaculately restored and the other I am starting to restore. My unrestored trailer is timbered in Elm and I have been told by my late Father-in-law, who spent most of his in the Timber Industry, that Ash would be a good substitute.

 

I call these Mortar Trailers as the GS type has rounded wheel arches and a shorter body sitting back on the chassis. I have many photos of them being used as GS trailers during the end of WW2 and postwar. I believe that they may have been favoured to the GS Trailer due to a slightly larger load area and without the top slats the load may be slightly better protected.

 

Regards,

 

Les.

Hello Les,

I'm really surprised in the use of Elm in your trailer as Elm has always traditionally been used where a very wide plank is required - chair seats,coffins and floorboards etc. It does perhaps point to the use of what was available to small manufacturers locally with no particular type of timber specified in their supply contract.

We are about to resume work on our trailer and are now leaning towards Ash for the body replacement.

The 10cwt trailers that you mention with the body as you describe,rounded arches and body slats were in fact the earlier No 1 pattern and were made in both GS type and also fitted out for 4.2" Mortar carriage. The later No.2 pattern with fully planked body,squared off mudguards and a different hitch were made as GS models ,mortar ammunition carriers and also for the carriage of the mortar itself,the differences being in the body fittings.

I started to compile some information on the different makers and detail differences and would like to see any pictures of these trailers (including your own) that you may have. Any information from the chassis plate would also be welcome.

Cheers,

David.

Hello Nigel,

Looks like a No 1 GS built probably by W.J. Reynolds or possibly SS (later Jaguar).

You seem to have the right, earlier type tow hitch which has been moved from the top of the drawbar to the underneath to allow it to be towed by a vehicle with a hook lower than a Jeep or an early 15cwt with pin and pintle. Unfortunately you are missing the tailgate which could be made.

You will need the support legs and a few other bits and pieces.

Do have a look at the thread which John C. suggests as there will be some useful info there.

If you care to PM me I may be able to help with some of the bits and a parts book.

Regards,

David.

1) Nigel........Any thoughts please ?

2) Richard,

I checked after your comment on the timber importation question. It would appear that timber imports to this country in 1943 for example were down 90% on pre war levels. It came from North America principally and was softwood. Swedish imports had stopped.

In the UK there was a policy to substitute softwood by native hardwoods.

David.

Hello David,

 

Ash was always the traditional timber to use for cab and body framework on vehicles, not sure about planking but it would have been what was avaialble at the time, no imported timber then.

Not quite true Richard,

You are quite right about the properties of Ash but I think we were still importing timber from Canada and possibly neutral Sweden.

I'm sure I have seen pictures of the survivors of U-boat attacks swimming among their timber deck cargo.

Cheers,

David.

I'm beginning to think that the type of wood may varied from maker to maker.Most of the trailer manufacturers were small concerns with no previous body building history and might well simply use what was available,the contracts may not have specified the type of timber to be used.

Our old original timbers do look like Pine and when we cut them up I think we will know definitely.

What about wooden truck bodies ? Does anyone know for example what wood Bedford ,Morris,Austin or their subcontractors used ?

David,

 

I don't know about GS trailers...but the Lightweight Electrical Repair trailer has pine boards. Top surfaces reasonably well finished , but the undersides are surprisingly roughly sawn; that is, considering how much time and effort had been spent on building the rest of the trailer.

 

Like you I was surprised at ash.

The ideal wood for wide boards was Elm (wasn't hat always the favoured timber for coffins?).....but much more common in 1943 then now.

 

John

Our wood does look like Pine and it would be my choice unless convinced otherwise,if I can find a good (joinery) quality. At the moment "Southern Yellow Pine " is being suggested. Elm as you quite rightly say was for chair seats,stair boards and coffins ,chosen for the width of the boards.

Saw some elm the other day with a nasty attack of death watch beetle. Six or seven live beetles and a dozen live grubs in two square feet. Thats why there's not much useable left about.

Has anyone else experience or ideas of timbers used please.

Thanks Arjan - look forward to hearing from you.

Going back to the question of timber. Can anyone else confirm the use of Ash being used in truck/trailer bodywork ?

Hi David

 

Many thanks for the offer I'm short of a few parts. Shackle pins. Mine had obviously never seen grease and have just worn away. Towing arrangement for the front. The cast handles for the front and rear drop leg and anything else that might be of interest.

I'm in no rush. I have a house to gut renovate before I can start the trailer!

 

I think the parts list needs to be on my shopping list.

I think we might be able to help with the pinch brackets and handles for the drop legs, we should have all the parts sorted out next week. If you care to drop me a PM, I should know soon. I've also got someone who does copies of the Parts Lists which I believe is the only publication relating to these trailers.

David.

Hi David One of my mates has restored a 10cwt trailer from the chassis up, we found that the T & G planks and timbers where all Ash hardwood even in wartime.

Although Ash is expensive it wouln't warp or shrink if it's well seasoned. Good timber merchants should be able to source Ash, we have several in Surrey and one specialest bespoke kitchen maker who will cut & plane timber to size.

If there is someone like that in your area it might be worth haveing a word!!

Regards

Robin

Robin,

I'm really surprised to hear that Ash comes into the equation as it is a wood best suited to bending and shaping- I think of Ash as hoop bows, 1920/30s car body frames, and the rounded backs of Windsor chairs. I am also surprised to think of Ash planking as wide as the boards on a truck/trailer body.

On our body its very difficult to pick out enough graining to identify the wood easily but I will bow to someones superior knowledge of timber when I take a lump of it into our local specialist.

Has anyone else any experience of identifying the timber used in 1930/1940s truck bodies ?

David.

Hi David,

 

An interesting and unusual spec for a 10cwt GS, I think your suggestion of a REME Workshop conversion may well be correct.

 

Re T-plates: I have restored a couple of these and in both cases found that thoroughly cleaning/polishing the front and back of each reflector, combined with repainting the plate, made it reasonably presentable. The one is this photo didn't look very different to yours when I started:

 

 

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]55939[/ATTACH]

 

There are several different versions of these T-plates and there seems to be two mains types of reflector:

one looks like a red "Rowntree's Fruit Gums" and has a very knobbly outer surface, the other type has a smooth outer face and the rear is faceted to catch/reflect the light.

In your photo itt looks like you have a full set of the latter type which are easier to polish up.

 

 

Cheers,

john

Thanks for the encouragement John.

I'm still hoping that someone can come up with some wartime pictures of these trailers in use. I would also like to hear from anyone else who has a GS or Mortar Trailer with any more information or photos that they can add.

David.

Virtually all the missing parts have now been located including the vital tow hitch and so work has commenced on the dismantling of the trailer. Its shown in the first picture with the draw bar balanced on the tow hook of its intended towing vehicle.

The maker was Orme Evans, a Wolverhampton firm and is a later No 2 model probably 1944/45 from a mixed contract of GS, 4.2" Mortar and Mortar ammunition carrying trailers. This particular one was thought originally to be a 10 cwt GS model due to its having an unfitted interior and a hinged rear tailgate,the Mortar and ammunition carriers have fitted interiors and drop down headboards only.

The first stages of examining and probing the woodwork revealed a second layer of planking laid over the original floor and the combined attacks of dry rot and woodworm makes it look likely that all the timber will have to be replaced and that a suitable softwood needs to be sourced. At the moment "Southern Yellow Pine" has been suggested and anyone with experience of rebuilding a wooden body is invited to comment. Its also obvious that a large number of Whitworth coach bolts will be required.

Along with the first setback comes the first mystery. From what little documentary and photographic record of these trailers that I have seen the GS version seemed to have a drop down tailboard only,our trailer has both a hinged headboard AND tailboard.

The headboard has the reinforced "slides" illustrated in the parts book as being fitted to the mortar ammunition carrier and which I suppose was to protect it and facilitate the unloading of heavy ammunition boxes -it is undoubtedly original.

The tailgate looks to be of the same professional factory construction in the same timber,using the same fittings and contemporary to the rest but with very slightly different hinges to the front panel.

The question is, was the GS tailboard arrangement :-

a) Original with both moveable head and tail boards.

b) Added at the factory,perhaps to a Mortar trailer already under construction ,as a result of a change in WD contract requirements.

c) A REME workshop conversion to increase the number of load carrying trailers versus Mortar trailers.

The whole body looks original and all built/modified at the same time and I would welcome any comments on or illustrations of these trailers especially in service. Any observations or pictures from owners of these trailers would be equally welcome.

Thanks,

David.

PS You can see we are lucky enough to have the T plate but all the reflectors are faded badly,does anyone have any experience of replacing them ?

We just couldn't keep away from the trailer :-)

 

The tailgate is removed and also the frontwheel is replaced by a new support leg.

 

Question that came to mind, is if these reflection triangle are original. The round reflector-parts look very simular to those of the T-sign.

 

Hello Arjan,

I'm sure you have seen this trailer belonging to one of your countrymen,it shows the T plate. There is also a picture of the T plate itself (courtesy of Clive Elliott),which is correct for the trailer.

As far as I'm aware the triangular reflectors appeared in the 1950's. I have seen a period advert showing them,they would be steel I suppose.

I have a T plate that is missing the red reflectors,I will be looking for these and must measure their exact size. Has anyone any experience of replacing these ? Alternatively I would be interested in a complete T plate if there is one available.

What other parts are you looking for ? We are starting work now on our trailer and may have some duplicates available soon especially chassis parts, some of which are common to the Lightweight "airborne" trailers.

David.

Hi all

 

Can anyone help with parts on the light weight water bowser? have the remains of one and need any parts, drawings, Pictures I can get to help with the restoration.

 

Many thanks

 

Richard

We have been accumulating a few parts prior to starting the work on a 10 GS trailer and will know very soon what parts will be duplicated.

Some of these parts are common to the lightweight family of trailers and if you let me know what chassis parts you need I may be able to help - nothing I'm afraid relevant to the water side of things though.

Have you got a copy of the parts list ?

David.

Thank you chaps - will explore both options on Monday. Mathews want £20 to do each one.David.

A quick search came up with this firm: H. Matthews Mirrors

Address: 726 Heywood Old Road, Heywood, Lancashire. OL10 2QQ

Thanks - I'll give them a try.

It only seems like yesterday but some time ago ago I carefully saved some British WD convex wing mirrors with the idea of having them resilvered. Thirty years on, having discovered them again,I find that most of the small specialist industries have disappeared,the Black Country has changed colour and most of the old 19th century mills,factories and workshops are converted into flats.

Has anyone any experience of having had small resilvering jobs done ? I'm trying around the antiques trade without success yet but can anyone suggest a firm who might be able to do this at a realistic price please ?

For my own use - should anyone who has any good glasses for these mirrors please PM me but I would like to find a specialist resilverer as I'm sure it would be a useful service for many people perhaps even on an exchange basis.

Alternatively - do any alchemists among you have any ideas on home silvering of small glass items ?

So what did you say Tim....

Hi David,

 

What a wonderful lady, no doubt it brought back a few memories for here, and her sister and a few stories I would imagine. I suspect a very satisfying day for you.

 

regards, Richard

Absolutely dead right Richard - a very rewarding and worthwhile day out and lots of memories revived for the ladies.

regards,

David.

Everything went well on the day. Ably supported by three British marked jeeps,Bedford MW,Austin K5 and BSA M20 the cake was duly delivered to mark the occasion of the lady's 100th birthday.

Also present (in red)was the lady's 97 year old sister who also drove a K2 in the same Red Cross/St John's unit at the same time in 1944/45 engaged in ferrying casualties back to the channel ports from Belgium and Holland.

Many thanks to my fellow members of the MVT North Oxon and Cotswolds Branch for their help in making the occasion memorable to these two fine people.

A fuller report has been submitted to Windscreen.

David Belcher.

Just fired the K2 up as we are delivering the 100th birthday cake later today to a lady ambulance driver who went through to Belgium and Holland in 1944 behind the wheel of an Austin.

Looking forward to her reminiscences.

All the NOS 4J junction boxes are gone now but I still have NOS 2J junction boxes and some very good used 4J junction boxes. There are still some two way switches left as well ,NOS.

I came across a few of these recently when getting parts together for a trailer restoration and some spares are available.

I've got a few of the Lucas two way switches - LU 31001 - NOS and also the 4J Lucas junction boxes LU 770069 both NOS and good clean used ones.

Ring me on 07860 889524 or PM for details.

David.

Well done John - I admire your attention to detail and skill in searching and finding successfully.

I'm still looking for a 11/16 x 13/16 Whitworth WD marked spanner ( wartime dated would be a bonus)

David.

Isn't the makers code in there as well eg- MB = Metal Box Co. ?