David B.

I was lucky enough to buy two 1944 Briggs Motor Body made water jerricans yesterday and under the flaking black paint on both of them is very clearly the original brown finish. Coincidentally I have recently borrowed the rather esoteric french-written jerrican book and having studied the (black and white) illustrations in it am of the opinion that the overall wartime finish is in a colour which seems lighter than black.

 

I for one when restoring these cans will be opting for a brown finish.

 

On a similar related note, are we also to believe that the WD stamped petroleum spirit 2 gallon cans should also be finished in brown from new or retrospectively painted by the military ?

 

Another further question is:-

Was there a 2 gallon can manufactured exclusively for water ?

 

I ask this because I have a 2 gallon can that I have just been looking at which differs from most that I have seen in that it has neither any " Petroleum Spirit " markings or WD stamp but is stamped 3-40 underneath. It carries not the usual makers name (Valor) but " FF & S Ltd. There is also an eye on the neck of the can which seems to be for a cap securing chain and the cap is unmarked.

There is very little paint on this can but if I had to guess ,I would say that this can was originally brown but has been overpainted black with a silver top like the silver colour the "flimsies" seem to have been painted.

 

Could this can have been exclusively intended for water ?

I would like to ask this question again as I have as yet not found an answer. Can anyone help please.

The crematorium service,conducted under humanist principles was very well attended and mention was made of Bernard's qualities and various eccentricities also his long and varied MVCG/MVT duties.

There was a large turnout of old friends mainly from the,Berkshire,Oxfordshire and Hampshire areas with others from further afield and a good representation from the MVT comittee.

As we arrived for the reception afterwards Bernard's Humber was prominently parked there to greet us.

We shall miss him but all hope not to lose touch with Marion.

David.

I have just belatedly realised that no one has posted the sad news of the passing of Bernard Venners.

Bernard,who died last week was one of the earliest collectors of MVs and stalwarts of the MVCG/MVT. He held committee positions at national level and was also very active locally.

I first met Bernard around 1970 which predated any of the MV clubs and at the time you could virtually count collectors of MVs on the finger of one hand.

Having a particular interest in British WW2 military vehicles Bernard and his wife Marion owned and rescued a number of vehicles including Austin,Ford,Karrier,Humber,Bedford and Morris-Commercial I think all of which are still in preservation today.

With either Marion or Bernard at the wheel and with Lucy and Henry aboard they went on the early MVCG tours and appeared at all the major early shows such as Thruxton, Blackbushe,Southsea and dozens of local events.

Bernard had been unwell for a while and when I met Marion in Normandy in June he was sadly not up to the trip

I am rushing now to get ready for Bernard's funeral which is at 2.15 today at Thatcham Crematorium. (A4 Bath Rd)

My sincere condolences to Marion Lucy and Henry. Goodbye Bernard and thanks for all the help and "tip offs" over the last 40 odd years.

David Belcher.

 

...........even though I take my own water, my own portaloo & bring it all home again.

Clive I don't think you are the only one. Most of us have have been collecting s h i t for years !

David,

If you mean with Simex, the problem was that they were taken over by Continental Tyres and it could be that they are controlling what is brought in to Europe. I had a set of 5 from their European HQ about 10 years ago and fitted to a MW. Had an order for 25 which was the last time we could get them. There was no guarantee of getting them as they were only arriving in dribs and drabs. Only sizes in their catalogue as I recall was 9.00-16 and 11.00-20

Morning Richard,

Do you have a current point of contact for the owners of the ex-Dunlop Trak Grip moulds.

It wouldn't cost anyone to make an enquiry !

David.

You are referring to our favourite tyre manufacturing company Simex who in theory have or had all the Dunlop tyre moulds including probably 11:20X20.

 

Unfortunately as has been discussed many times before unless there is a millionaire on this forum who is willing fund a large order and pay for all the necessary testing, it will never happen, and in time all our British war-time and post-war vehicles will end up on totally inappropriate tread patterns for the periods they are meant to be portraying.

Has the question actually ever been asked about price and minimum order 9.00 x 16 , 10.50 x16 or any other size for that matter ?

Hi David,

I had Ian call in last week, you must have given him a day off from MT preparations! Will blow the W&P dust of mine this weekend, checked type pressures yesterday, bit of oil and grease and we are good to go.

 

Hope you have a trouble free week with your fleet, we will no doubt catch up somewhere.

 

cheers Richard

Morning Richard,

It really was a well earned day off for Ian,he's worked his socks off. You talk about a "bit" of oil and grease. I reckon that I've spent about three hundred quid on lubricants !

Hope all goes well for you.

all the best.

David.

I suppose that all over the country there is the smell of new paint,record sales of brake fluid,gallons of fresh fuel and additives being put in and the disinterring of NOS parts in the run in to Normandy.

I hope that we are now in the last stages of preparation with our three vehicles,how are the rest of you doing ?

If all goes well we will be leaving North Oxfordshire on Saturday morning the 31st with ten vehicles altogether to be on our campsite at Asnelles by midday on June 1st.

It will be 40 years since I first took the K2 and 30 years since the Dingo went for the first time. It will be my last time I'm sure and I'm hoping to catch up with a lot of old friends over there.

"Bonne route" to all of you who are going.

David.

Thanks Robert - there was bound to be "chapter and verse" somewhere.

No argument on a red disc but still no mention of different colours during the war years.

Virtually all the missing parts have now been located including the vital tow hitch and so work has commenced on the dismantling of the trailer. Its shown in the first picture with the draw bar balanced on the tow hook of its intended towing vehicle.

 

The maker was Orme Evans, a Wolverhampton firm and is a later No 2 model probably 1944/45 from a mixed contract of GS, 4.2" Mortar and Mortar ammunition carrying trailers. This particular one was thought originally to be a 10 cwt GS model due to its having an unfitted interior and a hinged rear tailgate,the Mortar and ammunition carriers have fitted interiors and drop down headboards only.

 

The first stages of examining and probing the woodwork revealed a second layer of planking laid over the original floor and the combined attacks of dry rot and woodworm makes it look likely that all the timber will have to be replaced and that a suitable softwood needs to be sourced. At the moment "Southern Yellow Pine" has been suggested and anyone with experience of rebuilding a wooden body is invited to comment. Its also obvious that a large number of Whitworth coach bolts will be required.

 

Along with the first setback comes the first mystery. From what little documentary and photographic record of these trailers that I have seen the GS version seemed to have a drop down tailboard only,our trailer has both a hinged headboard AND tailboard.

 

The headboard has the reinforced "slides" illustrated in the parts book as being fitted to the mortar ammunition carrier and which I suppose was to protect it and facilitate the unloading of heavy ammunition boxes -it is undoubtedly original.

The tailgate looks to be of the same professional factory construction in the same timber,using the same fittings and contemporary to the rest but with very slightly different hinges to the front panel.

 

The question is, was the GS tailboard arrangement :-

 

a) Original with both moveable head and tail boards.

 

b) Added at the factory,perhaps to a Mortar trailer already under construction ,as a result of a change in WD contract requirements.

 

c) A REME workshop conversion to increase the number of load carrying trailers versus Mortar trailers.

 

The whole body looks original and all built/modified at the same time and I would welcome any comments on or illustrations of these trailers especially in service. Any observations or pictures from owners of these trailers would be equally welcome.

 

Thanks,

David.

 

PS You can see we are lucky enough to have the T plate but all the reflectors are faded badly,does anyone have any experience of replacing them ?

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]55930[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]55931[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]55932[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]55933[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]55934[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]55935[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]55936[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]55937[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]55938[/ATTACH]

Tony/Richard,

The preparation of the Dingo,Jeep and K2 for Normandy next month have prevented anything from being done to our trailer since this post over two years ago. The pictures do show the tail/headboard arrangement and poses several questions which are still unanswered. Hopefully work will restart on the trailer this summer.

Since that post it has become apparent that trailers exist today with a hinged headboard, a hinged tailboard or a combination of both front and rear.

Both Orme Evans and TEC produced 10 cwt Number 2 trailers-Mortar,Mortar Ammunition and GS variants concurrently in the same contracts at their respective factories.that is a matter of contract record. It would seem that Mortar trailers were designed with a hinged headboard only,the GS with a hinged tailboard only.

The mudguard shape is a red herring as all 10 cwt Number 2 trailers by these makers had the rectangular mudguards.

Is it possible that at some stage a number of trailers were retrospectively converted as an improvement or even perhaps to increase the availability of normal load carrying GS trailers in use by providing a rear tailboard or was it possible that all combinations came out of the works during the war ?

Pictures of the trailers deployed behind the gun in an ammunition supply role shows the practicality of the front hinged headboard when the tow ring is placed on the ground and the headboard opened but for normal loading of ammunition or general stores surely a rear opening tailgate is preferable especially when the trailer is attached a towing vehicle. I have a friend who uses his Mortar trailer to collect logs and he curses the front opening headboard as an inconvenience.

So the question remains ?

David.

Or you could have the wheels blasted in Cassington and ask them to clean up and paint after. If they are too dear on the painting ask someone else locally to prime and paint.

David 07860 889524

I would be interested in knowing how you get on. My only experience is in quotes for antique mirror resilvering and those prices can be horrendous.

David.

the W/T l think you will find has nothing to do with either weight width or transport

I was told once by a WW2 veteran that should any soldier either an infantryman or in a non radio equipped vehicle needed to send a radio message they find one easier if the vehicle had WT marked on its exterior.

Interesting to hear that there was a Dingo W/T as some of the plates with WT have it W/T but some don't. It may imply that the tank was a command or communications tank. The only other thought was that it stood for Weight or Width Transport and meant the tank was ready for transportation by rail or transporter.

 

The Cruiser plate was a bring back by a GI from North Africa.

 

Has anybody else come across the WT stamp on any other vehicle plates ?

Not on the plate but stencilled on the outside of the escape door of my Dingo was WT

I too am waiting for what I'm sure will be an excellent magazine. Its years since I contributed a very great deal to the MVT(MVCG), much to my shame.

Over the years the MVT and the service that it provides continues to improve,current editor included.

I personally have had an enormous amount out of the club over the years including the making of friendships of thirty and more years standing.

Its all a very far cry fom the beginnings when you could count virtually on the fingers of, if not one but both hands the people who owned and restored military vehicles.

Not only has the MVT and its stated aims and organisation given a decent image to our hobby but it has put countless like -minded enthusiasts in touch with one another.

Well done to all past and present contributors to the club.

David Belcher.

wont be trying that on my parabike !!

Is it true that the Dutch military hospitals have been inundated by a number of casualties following a period of neglect to the road surfaces in that country,all of them suffering from damage to the upper front teeth ?

The MVT Solent Branch ran the D-Day Show there from 1984 to about 1994. A great venue as there were places to go and eat within a short walk. One of the biggest mv events around at the time and starting point of the 1984, 1989 and 1994 Normandy tours that were run by MVT. A sadly missed show.

Surely there would be far more support this year the weekend before.

The trouble is each one of these b*****s nicks something. Mind you I could see myself floating to the surface with one of those Dunlop 10.50 x 16s from the front axle of the Bedford.

David

 

They look a bit like the storage boxes in the Comet Turret, i'll check tomorrow.

 

cheers

 

 

Jules

Thanks Julian - that would be appreciated.

all the best,

David.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When I got home I received a box of books from my neighbour which had arrived while I was gone. Well that's the reading material for a few weeks taken care of then:

 

Interesting looking book Tim. Must be worth a read through.....

I met the author once,not a bad bloke !!

Hi

Funnily enough they look like the rusted pair minus the hinges etc that i have got.. mine came with my Humber 1 ton gs , they fit under the rear deck behind the back wheels..

 

Fasttrax

Is that what they are for then ? Can anyone confirm please.

Has anyone an idea - Ferret,Saracen,Saladin ? They look like that era to me.

dunno.... but interesting... I guess they are around 10 inches wide?

Ah yes........silly of me.

They are about 10" high x 8"wide x 3 1/4"deep. I'm presuming that the lid catch is on the top.

I'm having a clearout and have found a couple of these boxes which appear unused but shelf soiled. My guess is British postwar but can anyone tell me for certain their application and use please.

Many thanks,

David.

Good morning David and Happy New Year to you,

 

stock answer was 'I might find a use for one day' even if it was like gold dust which was the case when I found a mint condition cab tilt for my Retriever in a pile of canvas at the back of the goods shed and out came the immortal line.

 

Certainly a man of the old school direct and to the point, some found him difficult to deal with and some people he would not do deal with at any price, but I never had a problem. I first met Chris at the age of 16 at one of John Carters Shotersbrook shows Phil Passey introduced us, another of the old school no longer with us along with the likes of Joe Hurst from St Mary Bourne, Joe tried to convince Keith Orpin and I that we should buy a Diamond T ballast tractor on the road for about £500.00 delivered........... those were days.

 

Regards

 

Pete

and happy New Year to you Pete....

I certainly can't match your find for rarity or obscurity but I wonder if anyone else can ?

Over the years I was happy with the "bread and butter" stuff. Butler blackout masks,head and side lights,1924 pattern wing mirrors,Dingo stowage and mechanical parts, BSA M20 tool kit spanners,Bedford OY rad blinds and all those kind of things. I never did need the American items ,Sherman or Stuart parts or even the brand new LVT bilge pumps !

Good old Chris,he made his money supplying foreign governments and then was instrumental in helping an infant hobby grow by offering a spares service which enabled so many projects to become reality.

I found him great company and don't forget also his ( sometimes controversial ) editorship of the MVT Windscreen magazine.

Cheers,

David