draganm
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Posts posted by draganm
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Armstrong-Whitworth torpedo tourer, wow, coolest name EVER ! :laugh:
seems like the place to start would be the surviving Munro's, they probably have pics of the major and the car as well.The owner in 1921 may possibly have had a connection with the Armstrong company or family and by 1925 it belonged to a Major Munro who had been wounded at Loos and Mametz Wood. It passed to his son in 1930 and was dismantled two years later for possible conversion into a pick-up truck. -
I guess it's the same machine, owner is reported to be one Klaus-Dieter F. which appears to be Klaus-Dieter Flick.
Here's a petition asking the prosecutor to return his stuff and fix all the damage they did to the road and his cellar.
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can anyone confirm if the one that's been seized is the so-called "Flick Panther"?
It does not appear to be the same machine to me? No commanders Cupola in this old photo, and the seized one appears to be missing the gun lock
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opening the vehicle collection to the world is one thing, opening up the rest of it including the Hitler-memorabilia is risky. Admitting to not only owning but sleeping in Hitlers bed is asking for the kind of attention a collector like this never wants or needs.
I wish him luck.
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even if they're original (according to his lawyer, the horses are repro's), they were still sold by the GDR before it's collapse, not stolen.and those statues in the garden here looked very much like the ones from the Reichtag.... so the owner might not be without guilt.second, even if the statues are somehow deemed illegal, does that give them the right to randomly size anything else they see of value?
Reminds me of the RICO laws here, if the police stop you while driving, and find a large amount of cash, they can seize your money (basically " arrest" your money), without arresting you or even accusing you of a crime. You then have to go to Court and prove you didn't get the money from selling drugs.
This is opposite of how the law is written, which is that you are innocent until proven guilty. In other words the government has to prove you did something wrong, not your responsibility to prove you did not.
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The exhaust look like reproductions, can anyone confirm? A or G model?
looks like they siezed his flak 88 too ,
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Hard to imagine it's the same machine. There's pics of the Surrey Yard machine in "after the battle magazine". Looks like a wreck.If this is the one from the Surrey scrapyard, then the authorities have been slow to catch on that this owner was in breach of the (German) law.That would conflict with reports of this one being driven around the town in 1978
http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=548534
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Holy Crap, they found a complete PANTHER in some 70 year old guys basement :wow:
I remember the original pre-story to this though, some tax collectors raided an elderly guys apartment and found stolen WW2 art, some looted from museum and people who were sent to Concentration camps. Police wound up seizing the collection. That I can understand to some extent, assuming the premise for the original intrusion into someones private home was legal in the first place. From what I can tell from the Google translation, that raid led to this "discovery" .
This second story though is really screwed up though. This guy has had this vehicle sine the early 70's, and he bought it legally in the UK and imported in the 70's. He claims it's all demilitarized and registered. The mayor of the town said he remembers this guy driving the thing around in a huge blizzard of 1978.
now the dam government sends in the army and seizes his private property?
Wow, that is really ****ed up. Here in the US you still need a legal court order to conduct a raid and size private property, at least for now. As a complete, original, un-restored Panther it's worth millions of $. All the tools and attachments are still on it, it will be interesting to see how much of that gets looted while in the possession of the army in some storage depot.
I hope he gets it back, and sues the government for all the trouble too.
BTW, is this one listed on the Shadock PDF's?
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ahhh, I gotcha, say no more.
Well hopefully that stuff pops up again some day down the road in restored condition.
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so basically, just retracing the route of the NATO invasion force, in reverseDown through Kosovo, through Macedonia and then on to Thessaloniki in N Greece and onto a ship...
and, If I remember correctly, ready to pay a bribe at a moments notice. Carton of good western cigarettes being the starting point.You need a decent shipping agent who knows the way things are done in those parts and patience. Lots and lots and lots of patience.
I think a lot was cut up as part of the Dayton accords, and what's left is typically parked in some museum or army barracks / depot.I didn't see that much in Bosnia but of all the ex Yugo Republics BH are the easiest to deal with.Have you ever had a chance to stop by and see this collection?
http://s106.photobucket.com/user/nammeci/library/Muzej%20Kozara?sort=3&page=1
or this one
http://s106.photobucket.com/user/nammeci/library/Muzej%20Manjaca?sort=3&page=1
Last I heard the stuff from Kozara war memorial museum was allegedly been moved and the only thing at the museum entrance is a Grayhound and piece of artillery. The lady who answers there e-mails was elusive about where the rest went.
Possibly stored at a military barracks.
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right , all one big happy Euro family now, just like Yugoslavia from 1945 to 1991.DON'T MENTION THE WAR
you'll have to recover that one and the cut it up with a torchand a tiger in a german pond ! that should keep me busy until war and peace !rick
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It's hard not to see this as one last parting shot from the German's, ...................... 70 years after the fall of Berlin :laugh:
the good news is that there is still tons of stuff out there, and hopefully in the hands of people who want to make money and not just melt down metal.
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What Republic did you go thru, Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia? Bosnia has a very large cache of Hellcats, Shermans, and even some German stuff.Lots of US "B" vehicles too - I know because I imported a load a while ago (Dodge WC series - and even a Carryall). And of course one of the Sherman recovery vehicles in the REME Museum is ex. JNA.How difficult was it to deal with the government red-tape there? When we left the old Yugoslavia anything to do with government officials involved getting there at the crack of dawn, waiting in a lobby all day, and then getting yelled at around 5PM by a hostile person who was annoyed by your very presence. Of course being a foreigner automatically gave you preferential treatment, at least before the NATO bombing, not sure about now. :undecided:
there's a huge debate about this alleged T55 sale to Pakistan on the Pak defense forum, most are speculating it's destined for the western frontier, Afghan army, and anti-Talib ops. At any rate, if it's true it's a huge plus for both the Serbian armed forces and the country's defense industry.
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It looks more like complete disrespect and lack of consideration for every other person out there trying to preserve history IMO . All it would have taken is a few phone calls on their partRick I am baffled by the museums lack of interest in these British historic artifacts"we don't want em, screw everyone else" :-( ?
hear, hear, that was a great effort.Well done for trying mate ! You are a credit to your hobby :-) -
these appear to have been all sold, headed to Pakistan after being upgraded to this
or this
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I blame hollywood, if you watch all the crap they made it was like everyone just sat around and waited to be liberated by US troops. Saw an article yesterday that something like only 13% of people in Europe knew the Russians even fought in WW2, despite bearing the brunt of the fighting and dying.
On the flip side though, Bristish AFV's being so undervalued just means they're a great investment at this time. Some day anything from WW2 will be worth a lot
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call him now , tell him to contact the yard. It might not be too late, even if one chassis is saved it's better than zero :-(i have learned my lesson and i am going to contact david willey at the tank museum and ask him if in future he gets an offer but doesn't take it up then for him to pass it on to me because you know I won't let them get cut up or at least I will put the word out
yeah that's really warped. On one side, a group of dedicated craftsmen trying to preserve artifacts from the most important Historical even of our time, one that shaped the world we live in.the funny (or not) thing is the tank museum would have benefited greatly as john pearson is restoring their mk7 and I am helping john so all the spares that I would have provided will never materialise now, also the Swedish tank museum got in touch with regard to their mk3 and the Belgians also need spares. so 3 museum churchills that will not get done now. f#@king makes me angry.On the other side, a "Marketing Director" who's probably never picked up a tool in his life , deciding it's too much bother to save that old stuff.
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Is there a museum involved?
That's a good idea though,a good place ot get started. I would call the the Panzer Museum in Munster and ask for their help. Do they even have a Churchill on display? Tell them they need a exhibit showing what their Tigers were shooting at during the war.
the whole deal changed after lunch, they had agreed to let us take parts at 300 euro per ton but I was hoping to save some of the tanks complete. in the morning everything was fine although it was made clear that we couldn't take any of the tanks without them being cut up first which was disappointing but expected. after lunch the sales manager in the main HQ some where else decided it was not worth the effort and put a stop to it which was strange as the yard guys were ok with us taking the spares, it was the upper management that didn't like it. I have been thinking who phoned them?Probably one of the yard guys, just looking out for himself and to not get fired for making deals by going around the yard manager.
Did you try talking directly to the yard manager or just the underlings?
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andy you hit the nail on the head ref the tiger, the thing I was saying is that if it were any other countries tanks they would be worth serious money, why are ours different. pisses me off royaly.
it's British equipment in a German scrap yard, with government regulations involved requiring destruction, and it seems we've all concluded that scrap-yard men all share the same Neanderthal gene pool , as in impossible to reason or bargain with.
It was a good effort on your part but the deck was seriously stacked against you.
post war Conqueror? If so that's a pretty rare piece of kit too, no?[ATTACH=CONFIG]105435[/ATTACH]
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sorry to hear your efforts were for naught.
Does remind me of the wrecking yard dealers I used to deal with when I restored classic cars. A cantankerous, uncooperative, bunch of sour jack-asses who's business model had nothing to do with preservation or making money. They were Kings of their own little ****-pile and they were bent on making sure you knew it too.
Real Shame for the Mk2, WW2 vintage and it still has the Turret too.:embarrassed: They couldn't at least let than one go out of the 5?
A-holes.
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come to think of it I've seen that here was well. There was one auction lot on government liquidation that was for half a million pounds of tank tracks, maybe M60 or Abram's, came with the Stipulation that it had to be cut up and verified. In that case though it was stuff they don't want re-sold to conflict zones that aren't pre-approved by Washington. Weird to see it on antique steel.I think that because it has passed to the scrap dealer he is obligated to cut them up so maybe demil was not his intention more like a contractual thing but anyway I plan on going out on Monday and will see what can be done.
so now it's treasure hunt, SWEETapparently the yard is full of postwar kit as well. I will take pics of everything and put them up.A 12 pack of good Beer might go a long way to lubing the wheels of commerce too
Curious though, how do you guys get an AFV from Germany to UK? Is it just as straight forward as strapping it to a flat-bed rail-car and sending it thru the Chunnel?
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cutting up a 70 year old bridge laying machine for "De-militarization" rules is insane , and isn't the crap dealer being a little unrealistic at £9k each? if you figure 60,000 pounds of steel at scrap value of 3 cents a pound, that's less than 2K
Where does the 9K from from?
Anyway, good luck with the rescue,
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depending on how much hassle you're prepared to deal with, the Serbian ministry of Defense is selling a a huge lot of surplus 1950's era vehicles.
Acting Assistant Minister for Budget and Finances
Radmila Jagodic
tel: +381 11 30 06 093
Do I have a WW1 Armstrong-Whitworth staff car on my hands?
in Pre WW2 vehicles
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I assume a 1-man hood simple means a hood with a hinge?
these cars are pretty amazing to see though, a friend has a 1924 willy's coupe here and it looks like a horse-drawn wagon that someone unhitched the horses from and dropped in a crude 4 cylinder engine. Wooden spoked wheels : )