andy brown

9 minutes ago, ruxy said:

Does your son by any chance cast Churchill tank brass plates  ?  possibly with a stash of miscast  LoL

 

Hi ruxy 

Hi can cast almost anything In brass,iron,Ali ,stainless,bronze , if you can supply a pattern , if the order warrants the cost or, the initial cost is for one as would be for ten due to set up time and calcs for  wastage ie slag loss and spurges , also does machining  polishing ,chroming , engraving....etc.albiet he is based in solo city java Indonesia , not to say it isn't cost effective..although shipping is currently a bug bear until biden sorts his mess out.....

7 minutes ago, radiomike7 said:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundowner_(yacht)

Apparently went to Dunkirk but was denied a second trip as it was too slow.

Engine no ..65218 

37 minutes ago, radiomike7 said:

It is most likely an 8.4l 6LW with 2 rocker covers or an 18l 6L3B with 6 individual rocker covers.

Is it still at Dennet's Shipbuilding? 

Yep still there and will be for the next few years ,as I said not much to see just the hull which is for the greater part complete...

1 hour ago, john1950 said:

If you have an engine number, Gardner Engine forum on facebook will give you chapter and verse on the engine.

Hi John..thanks for the reply, yes I had checked the. engine no; and deduced that it was 45 ish but no more than that , as most of my info gets ripped to pieces I thought I best to put a pic on of the number so that those that wish can check it out rather than take my word for it ...thanks anyway .  

As there seems to be a little disparity between what constitutes Naval and military I thought I better ask permission to speak or write ,don't want to get my writs slapped again..

Seeing reference to the little ships might start me off on another marathon as this is something I have been involved with for more than a few years ,

For the greater part my son and I have repaired remade rejuvenated the fixtures and fittings on more small boats in the last sixteen year than one can wave a burnt sick at and we are still doing it ,my son even casts the association brass plates as would be under licence.. strictly metal fitting remade to match the original when ever one can establish original as many of these boats had led a very checkered life long before ww2  and had under gone many adaptations during that time plus a few bullet holes .

Back to lightoller the most senior officer to escape the Titanic alive it was he that at the point of his gun that the male passengers and crew should give way to women and children before clambering into the life boats, his life is well documented on line along with his boat the Sundowner so I will leave that to you apart from saying he was one of those irrepressible soldiers of fortune that the Victorians had a knack of turning out just to punctuate Britishness  incase some hadn't got the message...

The Sundowner is in a yard completely gutted and I mean compleat just the keel and hull but still in one piece. , However I do have at my disposal the engine and gearbox a monolith of engineering a Gardner six cyl complete with gearbox marine version ,runner ,,  !! Well it pushed this boat some fifty miles up the thames not long before covid ,it's not the ww2 engine I believe it's just post war ,will post some pics if there is any interest.......

On 2/19/2023 at 6:03 PM, andy brown said:

On 2/19/2023 at 4:38 PM, paul connor said:

Andy, you quite literally got all the information you asked for. I made some calls and confirmed that Oxford Archaeology surveyed the area and there are no buried tanks under any part of the site. 

So you got exactly what you asked for, 100% scientific confirmation that there is zero possibility of buried vehicles. 

I'm sorry that's not to your liking, but any other answer would be simply untrue. The only thing you're not trying is to actually listen to what I keep telling you.

Mystery solved. Case closed. No tanks buried on that site.

That's the same line Hammond gave me ten years ago .the day he first visited the site ..Fallon wouldn't follow suite without Hammond counter signing the letter where Fallon re iterated Hammond's words even though he was in the driving seat .

It would appear that I have touched a nerve here ,thing is whose nerve is it ,? Just to clarify a couple of points ,one the Canadian Churchill's I through in earlier if you read

it through you would have seen that I did so just to prove that it didn't matter what I said it would be pounced on like a bone to a hungry pack of dogs , my thinking in doing so was that it would demonstrate a certain level of intelligence in not grabbing the bone , but no grab they did which goes to prove to how much thought goes into it before they pounce ....

Citing 300 + tanks as some one has as being a stretch of imagination of a child ,well what do they know as I've mentioned many times before I came looking to find answers and there are none hereabouts maybe your all to young to have first hand experience of how things actually worked back in the day , here you have linikear .speaking his mind back in the day he would have got five years , not so long back you had Simon Dee who was never heard of again , no you cannot possibly compare the last twenty years to what came before ,Ruth Ellis, my point is that you have never had it so good when it comes to information so much so that when you venture outside the box that they give you to answer yes or no in you've moved into dangerous territory as I found with the national archives , it is for the greater part designed as fodder for the many, so don't be surprised if I don't swallow what comes at me from those who were not there ,,just ask your self as I did when I came across the 1400 / 1500 chiselled of brass tank plates back in 98  Why When Who....?

1 hour ago, paul connor said:

Andy, you quite literally got all the information you asked for. I made some calls and confirmed that Oxford Archaeology surveyed the area and there are no buried tanks under any part of the site. 

So you got exactly what you asked for, 100% scientific confirmation that there is zero possibility of buried vehicles. 

I'm sorry that's not to your liking, but any other answer would be simply untrue. The only thing you're not trying is to actually listen to what I keep telling you.

Mystery solved. Case closed. No tanks buried on that site.

That's the same line Hammond gave me ten years ago .the day he first visited the site ..Fallon wouldn't follow suite without Hammond counter signing the letter where Fallon re iterated Hammond's words even though he was in the driving seat .

5 hours ago, 11th Armoured said:

Right from the very start, this whole tale seemed to me to be the result of a kid with an over-active imagination who REALLY loved (& still misses...) his dad, but unfortunately either mis-remembered the details of the stories he'd been told, or didn't have the capacity at a young age to determine whether his old man was spinning a yarn or not.

Sadly, as the kid grew up, it became an obsession & no amount of facts, logic or common sense will now change a belief that has been held, literally, for a lifetime.

Like I said I came here to gleen information but it would appear that there's nobody at home ,can't say I didn't try ,........

4 minutes ago, paul connor said:

Wow, that's some extensive research right there. An aerial photograph with no contextual source, and a graph from 'miketodd.net' suggesting historical exchange rates; with no sources and completely subjectively bias text.

Please Andy, learn to understand bias and agenda. Your subjective views are not quantifiable, websites are also not valid as references within any academic or amateur research.

You're using dubious sources to arrange a very inconsistent and unconvincing argument to project your own personal narrative and agenda within this thread.

It's probably best this thread is locked.

 

 

Re Canadian Churchill's ......it really didn't matter what I fielded did it ..the response was to be the same ,so I added a little market research ,see how many responded to this ...I personally wouldn't have bothered to respond ,when I saw that there was a response I realized after all my years (what an uphill battle the apostles must have faced for the New testament to be compiled .......no never happened ,nail em on upside down ,so I could see how "life of Brian " came to be....    I never professed to be an academic. Nor I suspect did many of the reader ship but they do have enough wit to make up there own minds based on there own experience without being told otherwise..........

Ok answer needed ..where about on the hull of a Churchill is the model and chassis no; brass plate ,is it bolted through with nuts on reverse side or drilled and tapped to take a bolt ,

Did all.marks of Churchill's have the plates in the same place and how hard were they to get to..

Another pic of tanks at the none existent Milton Cambs not good I agree but a couple of frames on from the last pic I posted waterbeach is situated two miles distant in this pic and to the right..

Just in case what I had previously mentioned regarding the strangle hold the U.S had post war on the UK's financial situation the above shows the result ,not that the UK paid back the lend lease money immediately as the US relented at the time so long as they could pick from universities and research establishment in the UK anything that they thought they should have , the lease money was made in yearly amounts the last paid by ed balls in or around the year 2000.

On 2/14/2023 at 1:56 PM, simon king said:

This book makes for interesting reading in the context of this thread

3 hours ago, mtskull said:

Whilst I understand how the US government might insist that equipment supplied under lend-lease should be either returned, paid for or destroyed when no longer required, how could this explain the (highly secret) burial of hundreds of Churchill tanks, which were not supplied by the US but were entirely manufactured in the UK?

Why go to the trouble of chiselling off all of the data plates just to send them to a scrap yard anyway?
Is there any evidence to connect the data plates found in the scrapyard with the allegedly buried tanks?

Hi , you have asked the questions that I took with me to the national archives  some twelve years ago , I must have touched a nerve because they withdrew the records I had ask for and became insistant that two files listed did not exist ,in their words ( these can only be red under ministerial supervision ) my reply ( I will go for that then ,)  (that request would take at least two years to go through the appropriate channels and even then you could be refused access ) came their reply ..just to put the nail in the coffin three months latter on a nother visit they called me to the reception desk and said I could read said files ....went to third floor and was given a folder with the ident ,on it only to find it was empty.......what was it someone didn't want me to know ?

Ps not all Churchill's were manufactured in the UK.and I found they at the time Canada was rather laid back re pay back times on l.l but ifound that the US started to put the squeeze on Canadian gov; to push UK to pay for what they owed ,this late forty seven  ..one thing to bear in mind the US saw the labour gov; as a bunch of commis with there national health scheme and trade union council ,US had waited years for the opportunity to nail the UK to the floor and here it was on a plate......

To be continued......

59 minutes ago, andy brown said:

Hi  thanks for the input ,,it was never my intention to give away the whole story.as I new or suspected that there might be some one who held or knew of some thing regards waterbeach tanks ,,yes I was looking for info , my father was on reserve when war broke out and had twenty one days to go before release but they refused to let him go in 1946 he was on reserve again until 1954 between 46 and 54 he worked as a civilian in the 10command reme wks Mill Hill nw7. ..in forty eight he became vehicle inspector traveling round London inspecting vehicles static and road Tests at barracks ,reme wks, vehicle stockpiles ,docks, and ministry vehicles , as he said he was neither on the radar or off the radar ,having had what he saw as a raw deal ten years before he used his time and expertise to level the score ,taking on a wide range of mod or ministry cover ups so long as there was an inducement to do so .. hence the meetings at our house at the time and eventually waterbeach and  brigadier Slim.

He was bilited.in Milton along with the rest of the team along with Five amourers .the donkey work was carried out by what he referred to as pioneer corp but they were not from the UK ....,as for churchilIs i don't recall saying they were all Churchill's his words were the majority.are.....as for why bury them , it appears from dowith lend lease repayments that were agreed to with the us who later renaded on theagreeement due in part that the government here couldn't agree to devalue the pound down to a level the us demanded so they demanded that we pay up on the debt now or we would have to stop scrapping ,selling or using anything we owed against the debt ,to pay would break the country the only thing they left untouched was shipping that had been on lend lease  ,scrapping was out of the question as this was income ,income that the U.S wanted ,so the UK found out the party was over we could no longer trade with the world Australia New Zealand ,south Africa , Canada had a new outlet the top dogs were the US we were left importing beef from Argentina and whale meet from Norway and chile.and rationing just ground on ...

21 hours ago, 10FM68 said:

Andy,

There were no howls of derision about the photo.  No one disputes that the photo is of Milton, that it was probably taken just after the war, that there are tanks in the storage area and that the main road then went through the village itself.  I am sure tanks did use the road - they used most roads in the country in those days so don't be silly - these are not the things we are derisive about. 

We aren't daft either.  We accept evidence, we accept logic and we accept reasoned argument.  Your case offers none of this.  You never answer a direct question directly, you present no evidence of anything remotely relating to your story - the presence of a storage depot at Milton is proof of nothing other than the existence of a storage depot in Milton which no one disputes.  Whether your father was billeted there I have no idea but, seeing as he was supposed to have retired from the army when all this happened, I have no idea why he should have been.  And we accept logic.  There is no logic whatsoever to your story. 

Why would anyone wish to bury large quantities of tanks under a working airfield when they had a scrap value and the Ministry of Supply had plenty of easier places to bury them had they wanted to do so?  Why remove the data plates from vehicles which were being buried and which were not subject to lend-lease or anything else - you said they were British-built Churchills?  Why do it in secret?  Why get a civilian ex-NCO to do it when the Army was full of people with little to do and disposal of wartime munitions was part and parcel of Service life at the time?  There is no sense in any of it - it is pure, unadulterated rubbish.  You have some sort of bee in your bonnet about Lord Hammond and another about establishment conspiracies.  Furthermore, you have consistently been rude to us.  You have told us to 'be patient' while you released information slowly, bit by bit.  You took ages before you told us it was Waterbeach - why?  Why could you not have been frank with us from the beginning?  You made offensive remarks about how we valued sprocket bolts when you knew where hundreds of intact tanks were.  And so it goes on.  Andy, if you have some real evidence, can offer a logical story or reasoned argument, can stop being patronising and can manage to answer direct questions then you might, just might, salvage something from this.  If not - forget it.  For my part, I'm going back into purdah - I have nothing more to add to this thread.

Hi  thanks for the input ,,it was never my intention to give away the whole story.as I new or suspected that there might be some one who held or knew of some thing regards waterbeach tanks ,,yes I was looking for info , my father was on reserve when war broke out and had twenty one days to go before release but they refused to let him go in 1946 he was on reserve again until 1954 between 46 and 54 he worked as a civilian in the 10command reme wks Mill Hill nw7. ..in forty eight he became vehicle inspector traveling round London inspecting vehicles static and road Tests at barracks ,reme wks, vehicle stockpiles ,docks, and ministry vehicles , as he said he was neither on the radar or off the radar ,having had what he saw as a raw deal ten years before he used his time and expertise to level the score ,taking on a wide range of mod or ministry cover ups so long as there was an inducement to do so .. hence the meetings at our house at the time and eventually waterbeach and  brigadier Slim.

On 2/10/2023 at 7:50 AM, ferretfixer said:

The Item in the photo is a fake! Everyone knows a 'Digger'. Is an Australian Serviceman!..........😁

Not that I have had enough time to read through the last batch of replies and remarks in depth but it would appear that the  gist suggests some are a little upset or could it be suffering from a touch of sour grapes, not that it surprises me ,however the level of a few of the remarks suggest the vendor thinks we all dress in sack cloth , one remark ( don't annoy your MP )  well who is my MP ?  What's more a MP is elected to represent the interest and well being of their constituents and answerable to those they represent this is the twenty first century not the seventeenth ..as a point of interest  Milton high Street was at the time the A10 ,the A10 as it is now goes through the area of the pic of the prison of war and tank park and runs parallel with Milton high Street so. In the day everything on the A10 went through Milton village including tanks . Yes I expected to get slagged of  for as it was put lack of evidence but even when I field an original mod picture of the subject matter "howls of derision " .

36 minutes ago, Great War truck said:

Just out of curiosity and because this topic needs some excitement to get it really going. 1962 RAF Farnborough, during the Cuban missile crisis. A Fordson major breaks down while cutting the grass and they call out an external agricultural engineer. Surely, the site is so big they would have their own RAF maintenance personnel who would be well aware of the repair and maintenance requirements for their own equipment and would not call in a company of agricultural engineers to fix it. I expect that there is a logical explanation for this though. Anybody?  

Hi didn't think to mention it ,tractor belonged to Ground work who were based at stanwell middlesex just off the end of the runway at Heathrow they had a number of tractors plus gang mowers with the contract to cut the acres of grass at Heathrow also had a large cuttings drying plant at the time 

1 hour ago, 10FM68 said:

No apple cart upset!  You just have to look through Andy's story to see that it makes no logical sense.  A Vulcan, being handled wildly with an apparent issue with its payload which then is unloaded in a casual manner by an incompetent crew (can't even fit a screen up properly).  We aren't told whether this was the Vulcan's home base, but, if it was, then the procedure would have been conducted, probably inside a hangar, at least in front of one, by a dedicated, extremely careful and precise crew.  If elsewhere, then why?  But, even then the procedure smacks of incompetence.  No, not credible even though nuclear weapons may well have spherical objects inside them - where had the casing gone and how and why...  Pure unadulterated codswallop - perhaps Andy was sharing a flagon of cider with the jolly reapers!

Hi I'm inclined to agree with all you have said with a couple of exeptions ,,this was the height of the Cuban crisis not that anyone here took much notice as there was a continuous diet at that time of atomic or hydrogen bombs as they put it tested  by almost anyone who could afford To do it.what set the ball rolling really was the arrival of the RAF military policeman bouncing across the airfield in his well worn mk 1 long wheel base land rover , almost bursting at the seams he kept out shouted we are expecting to go tored alert at any moment case this place is bound to be on there list of targets ,lept back in his machine and bounced back.recalltelling him I better eat my cheese and beetroot sandwiches then case there isn't a lot you can say when faced with oblivion,I'm at the tree line south west corner of the airfield furthest point from main gate from that poin lookin east the houses rise up a hill over which a vulcan appears ,from my standpoint it looked as though it was skidding across the very roof tops and was shifting no sedate approach belting out black smoke with what I assumed were air brake flaps down if he had been any closer to the main gate he would have been in the Farnborough road got to end of runway spun  left onto taxiway stil with bags of throttle blew two olboys and their fire slithering into the done another left cross the runway towards the back of national gas turbine centre ,this aircraft looked as the cars do on the east African rally ,,,five six minutes bomb bay doors open and as I am quarter of a mile away couldn't count how many men in white overalls were ther may be ten or twelve ,best described as a cradle on wheels positioned underneath while others either hooked or strapped a white canvas screen around the cradle and suspended fro m I think the bomb bay door s slowly was lowered what looked at that distance spherical although that said I am looking from ehind and could not see it side view but had the impression that it had some length as I could see figures. Ataching cables or pipes whilst standing on the front of the cradle,still others were having trouble closing the end of the canvas facing my direction  seemed to short to go round ..finished fitting pump coupling on tractor and left .....

5 minutes ago, 10FM68 said:

None of this supports your theory that the tanks were buried.  Why remove data plates and bury tanks when the government is concerned about a Soviet invasion?  And, again, insults - who are the G&T Oxford brigade?  How about explaining how you went from 326 tanks to 1400?  Where's the picture of you and a digger on this thread?  Where is the second pit?  What is your explanation for choosing a live air station for secret burial when there were masses of empty government-owned bits of land all over the place?  Why the inconsistencies regarding the tanks: some German ones apparently in your early post, some Bren carriers and Oxfords, loads of spares, some rubbish about lend-lease or having to pay the Canadians.  Offer us some answers to those questions.  But, I'm afraid, Paul Connor has hit the nail on the head: he's given scientific proof that there are no tanks buried at Waterbeach - proof, not opinion, assumption or speculation which is all you have been able to counter with.  We aren't ganging up on you, we aren't secretly working to undermine you on behalf of Lord Hammond, it is just that we think you have deliberately toyed with us which, as I have told you before, I find rude and insulting and nothing you have said makes any coherent sense - on any level: the tanks aren't there and you could come up with no reason why they should be.  Sadly, I think your dad was pulling your leg!

Hi re pic of digger  the thread was split  you'll have to scroll Back on the main listing as I had split the thread in two.from the out set I came to gather information not to impart it in the hope that someone would be able to through some light on the subject ,this through no fault of my own due in part people asked question as you might expect and I answered them to the best of my ability not that I was determined to bludgeon those who inquired into accepting my answers it was just common decency to reply ,wether or not they took it on board was niether here or  there...1400 well you have like everybody else wouldn't want to here the rest of the details .it's up to the individual to decide what to make of it .

11 minutes ago, andy brown said:

It would appear that I am not flavour of the month in some people's eyes but as yet there hasn't been much other than assumptions and a will to do a demolition on me. a concerted effort one my say , not that I expected to get a smooth passage with the ever present shadow of Hammond hovering in the background .not that anything that has come out of this that's to my detrement just a few showing their frustration , an example of this came by way of the rebuff against my mention of the buffalo and what it represented ie ,russian invasion ,that set them off ,something else of my fantasy world ,

A few excerpts from..

August 1948 cabinet preparations for defence

Memorandum by the prime minister

The defence of the United kingdom

Defence of essential communications

Defence of middle east

Bases for u.s strategic air force in UK and middle east stocking of Airfields in EAST ANGLIA 

Should war break out ,or its threat become imminent at any time in the next six to nine months ,fairly extensive plans have already been prepared ,and are being perfected every week - for a crash mobilisation..

Specific attention to the recall of war time A/A crews where ever possible 

Actions in response to the meetings of foreign ministers in Moscow promote the need to safeguard what we have and under take to supply what will be needed

Anti aircraft ammunition 

The rate of production should be built up to the following level

5.25he.       10.000 per month

3.7mark 1v he 5000per month

3.7mark111 he. 30,000 per month 

Small arms ammunition should be raised from 200 million rounds to 400 million

Bomber airfields ....

Four additional airfields should be prepared in the UK for the use of U/S heavy bombers 

Fighter aircraft 

Additional orders placed for jet fighters venoms and or meteors ,..piston engine fighters held in sock to be bought to a state of readyness and supply's of spares will be required for same...

The lists go on covering everything from steel production shipping refurs ,radar up grades , labour distribution ,.construction materials ,production of respirators ,vehicle produçtion , etc,ect 

So this was pie in the sky ....according to the g and t Oxford brigade ....

1 hour ago, ruxy said:

So  -  05/02/2023 after 6+ years , the Andy Brown story of hundreds of burried tanks is deemed  - codswollop , the work of a creative mind.  Then it is suggested that one looks at AB's other post as originator :-

History repeating itself.a waste of 60 years  (posted 15/82022).

AB  - gets the last word and gets no bite in response , it's a case of down but not out on the case of the black ball.

Andys - last typing ,   I was unaware that they produced a missile in the shape of a sphere.

---------

So - the day Andy was a tractor mechanic (civvy) on a RAF field, like most technicals - he would be nosey & store in memory  ?      If the story is not contrived - then w.t.f.  did Andy observe  ?

Could it have been the "Radioactive Bomb"  ?  Probably the greatest secret of WW2 on  ?   Not the two route to a nuclear explosion. 

At close down of Tube Alloys and hand over £$ free to the USA , the greatest secret was the Cyclotron.  There was the idea of an Americal scientist (as if a British scientist had not considered,  as if Blunt & team had not passed it on to Russia (until Op. Barbarossa Russia shared all secrets with Germany).   Both Chadwick and Oliphant were ordered to keep their mouths shut.   The idea was a dirty bomb,  to use the radioactivety of the cyclotron - the nuclear accelerator for producing a stream of electrically charged atoms or nuclei travelling at a very high speed - in a bomb.  This could destroy the human population of a large city.  Apparently Sir Mark Oliphant  - made no mention until January 1994, posibly by then he had lost a few marbles ?  Oliphant merely said  - that the radioactive bomb was a contentious issue in the immediate post-war years  !

It would appear that I am not flavour of the month in some people's eyes but as yet there hasn't been much other than assumptions and a will to do a demolition on me. a concerted effort one my say , not that I expected to get a smooth passage with the ever present shadow of Hammond hovering in the background .not that anything that has come out of this that's to my detrement just a few showing their frustration , an example of this came by way of the rebuff against my mention of the buffalo and what it represented ie ,russian invasion ,that set them off ,something else of my fantasy world ,

Correction I did not know about tanks and burials when I was nine I just recall the word water beach as I stirred the ashes ,not until some ten years later did he draw the map and explain what was there,

14 minutes ago, Richard Farrant said:

I have gone back to the beginning of this story and basically it is a 9 year old boy, whose father is having a 'secret' meeting with important people from the government, War Department or whatever, and he was asked to bring out a dustbin to destroy paperwork .........yet he was told they were going to bury 100's of tanks ........ strikes me he was told a story to fob him off what was really being discussed.  If it was so secret, why would you tell a child????

There is no proof of these plates in a scrapyard being connected with this story.

It would  seem gentlemen that if there is a wrong or right to this it will only be revealed when the aprons are lifted so you will have be content with the fact that until that happens  am right...

33 minutes ago, paul connor said:

Yes, that shows some plates were sold, that you were likely the seller. That is where this exciting new piece of evidence ends I am afraid. 

Don't be afraid it's alway interesting to see what's on people's minds , the shame is most is of no consequence .

11 minutes ago, paul connor said:

Having also driven many tracked AFVs I would not have the courage to hard tiller at 30mph! Maybe this was an early "Drift Churchill"?