Chieftainmk4

The Model has now been sold thanks to all who have viewed this topic.

Adding a couple more pictures to show the the hand built quality of this model and the hours that must have been invested while building this one of a kind.

This is an all alloy metal model, approx 1:5 scale weighing around 200kg was built during the early 70's to develope the Mk3/Mk5 Chieftain at Chertsey (MVEE) MOD. A custom built one off, accurate model 148cm length x 69cm x width 62cm . Length with gun foward approx 210cm, Nut and bolt (imperial BA) construction, using unique castings, working Horstmann suspension units, stainless steel sprockets and alloy tracks. This was a quality professional build. (not an apprentice model) It is believed it was used for some investigation trials, but I think was squirreled away when it's gear box failed. After which it was pushed around in a steel frame, stored and forgotten . It has since been restored, uprated to 2.4g radio control using Q4D's speed controllers, twin high torque wheel chair motor/gearboxes gives excellent performance, includes turret transverse and a quality benidini sound system. Brought out of storage a couple of weeks ago fitted with new radio control and two new 12 volt 22 amp batteries. Comes with 24 volt charger making the model ready to run and charge. Weighing in at around 200kg she can be carried round in a small van or estate car This is probably one of the biggest radio controlled all metal model tanks in the world and comes with MOD heritage. £5000.00 For more pictures and details PM or Email john.rclarke60@gmail.com

The Enigma concluded. From the man who wrote about the Chertsey military proving ground, The Tank Factory ISBN 978-0-7509-6122-6. The model was a radar signature model one of a kind. The book was very informative capturing life and times of British military proving ground. Sadly now gone making way for a motion picture studio. From his own description. I believe it was built for developing radar systems. There is a one to one relationship between the model size and the radar frequency and so you could test a 1/5 scale model with a radar 5x the frequency and get equivalent results. There used to be an in-door radar range at a place called Hutton Moor near to Bristol where testing was done and being in doors with a scale model it was easier to control what was going on. This model is unusual because as far as I know it was the only model of its type that was motorised in order to look at the Doppler radar signature of a moving vehicle.

Hi I have managed to chat with William Suttie author of The Tank Factory, He describes the model as highly detailed Radar Signature model used to develop Dopple radar signatures. I can endorse the book as very good read, obviously a lot of work and invention is still secret stuff but the book itself covers and outlines events in British tank early development to the last days at Chertsey from the "man on the grounds" point of view. Some of the development area's not widely know, although the site is closed to military development this book is a lasting description of the kind of things our military engineers had to invent to try to keep our military personnel safe so that they can secure our future. Included in the read are obscure vehicles such as Contentious which in my opinion could today become an airborne drown tank for all those couch battlefield gaming.net fans and not the Kamikaze swarm tank of the 1950's. Thanks to all for the interest

Well that was a scary conversation, I suppose we've seen the golden age of Tank building in this country. I guess a similar dialog was run during the 1920's with Vickers (private contractor) and some back yard inventers developing our only other armoured equipment. Government's now and then praying they won't need to buy and keep them, lets hope there are no more despots waiting for their chance to catch us out again. Still, we l have the Nukes unless some fanciful nincompoop decides we don't need those anymore too. These days self proclaimed important people get paid a lot of money for responsibility yet none will accept responsibility when mistakes are made. lets all hope their prayers are answered.

Hi Nick One wonders where the next home grown MTB is going to come from when all the expertise, building and testing facilities have gone?

Hi I've just finished reading The Tank factory by William Suttie, it describes the Chertsey reserch centre over 30 years before its closure. I found the book very good and was reminded of my past as an appentice during the 70's with the CEGB. The dry humour brought a smile as he describes History, development, departmental interconnection and the giving of trophies to those who thought they'd covered up their cockups at the end of the year at the Christmas do. I have been trying to find out about a model Chieftain tank (1/5 scale) that was possibly built there, to try and find out what it's purpose was. There is a picture of a T94 model in the book (not sure of the scale) used for scale radar measurements, it looks similar to the Chieftain build and was wondering if the Chieftain model was built for the same reason. If someone knows William or one of his colleges then maybe they could drop me a line and I could finally put this enigma to bed. Thanks

Hi All The kind gentleman Brucie, forwarded me this picture of the model dated from the late 1970's which mensioned earlier. On the back it is stamped British Aero Dynamics Industies based in Bristol. Why the model is in the middle of a field and what the model is being used for is still a mystery. The connection with the Aero industry might shed light on the quality of the build of the and a possible connection to MVEE. If Antar could get back to me with details of the show at Heywood, I'd love to attend on the Sunday and maybe take another picture with it's bigger brother. John

Hi Robin I did my best not to change too much of the model when motorising the Chieftain. There is some fine detail in places but in other areas it is quite crude. Outwardly I want to keep it original. I'd like to find some pictures of the model when she was used for what she was built for, what ever that was. My lnterest in tanks begins with memory's from great war films, the beginning of Kelly's Hero's, a Tiger in the rain for me is unsurpassed. One of the strongest memory's is the bunker scene from The battle of the bulge. The big metal coloured tank model is impressive. So the Cheiftain will stay as she is while I have her and like she has been for forty odd years. Sorry, I cannot put a value on the Chieftain. I haven't got any footage of her moving around yet, I also have to work out how to upload stuff too.

Hi to all Firstly thank you for the invite to Haywood Manchester, I have to work that weekend, but will try for a shift swop. I'd love to get a close up with the real deal. The Chieftain is fully mobile, converting it with the biggest wheel chair motors I could find and fit, The beauty of which if there is any motive failure you can always take the motors out of gear and push it. I think you may be right Brucie, I've just seen your Avitar, fantastic. Have you got a larger picture I could see, where did it come from and when? The original picture in picture from the start of the thread. shows what I believe to be an apprentice model from an edition of the Yorkshire Evening Post about 1967, it's a small picture because the cost of an enlargement was about 20 pounds. Since it is a 1/10 scale or there abouts and painted it is not my model, so I didn't really want it. I believe the Chieftain to be a MK3s onwards because she has the modified engine deck for the uprated L60 7A motor but continues to carry the Mk1 NBC pack. The commanders stowage box would be correct. Other fittings such as the gun crutch, lights and splashboard were common upgrades around the late sixties early seventies. I know it's not a MK4 because the suspension is the older Horsman type as apposed to the Hydrogas fitted to the MK4 That Challenger model is really very nice and may cast some light on what may have been in the Chieftain, although I think it may have chain or belt from the single motor to the gearbox. The turret rotates via another large motor gearbox but I have not treated the gun elevation to radio control. Two reasons, First tank models tend to have gun bounce at they travel which looks a little naff some times and second, the picture below shows the inside of the turret and the locking device to position the gun, which is original. Having carved the model up enough to get her to run I thought I'd leave that bit original. I could do it, but to have the five foot long turret/gun rotate is enough beside its alot less wiring to get screwed up. A Benidini sound module completes the model. Still hoping to find out the reason she was built. John Clarke

Hi to all Thankyou all for your time and input, I think that the model Chieftain being around for almost 45 years, may have played many parts in her time, in short durations. Anyone of the one of the ideas described could be true, before being tucked away when a new project came along. The apprentice idea really sounds good, but I would have thought for a model of this size, would have had more detailed work done to her other than the odd areas, cupola, louver vents and gun crutch. I have seen some of their models and they do go to town on them with high levels of detail. There was even a gold challenger 1/10 scale sitting Vickers reception at one time. (wonder who's got that now?) I know Chertsey is a bit of an area 51 for the MoD, so the radar/paint stuff is plausible, but its the gold bits that throw me. The gun crutch, painted gold, fully working with a working spring loaded clamp to hold in place, all accurate detail. I suppose I can only conclude that over enthusiastic project manager wanted his baby to look as good as it could during testing demonstrations. Unless someone knows better? Who ever built her, did a fine job. Like a lot of tank enthusiast’s, I was brought up on images of German tanks. The Britsh did'nt always build the best tanks, but when we got our act together towards the end of WW2, we designed world class AFV's and have done since. I cannot own a real tank, could'nt afford to run one and the niegbours would upset when I parked it up. if I was honest I just enjoy watching them put though their paces. The Chieftain was probably the best design/looking tank ever built, had it not been for that poor L60 (german junkers design) motor forced on the designers, it could have been an all time great.

Hi I don't know about the blue goose but that is certainly is a fine looking car, even has the fashionable flat coloured paint. Sounds like the 540k was the team favourite. (my own favourite was the G5 but a bit of a pig to drive I have read) I have a 1/5 scale model 540K in black which is remarkably good even though it is built from cheap plastics and has some questionable electronics in it. My Grandad (MP corporal) with a MP sergent commandeered a staff car from leading politican in Germany (Hamberg) just after the war, the sergent went on to keep the car for a while, my grandad had the politians walking stick, I still have it. It's full of old worm holes though being left in a damp garage. Wish my grandad had been the sergent. Could have been millionares The reason for replying to the thread is that a certain leader of a national socialist group had red 540K I believe. Here he is driving down a freshly slave built autoban. Would you let this man lead you into war? "Look mam no hands" John

Hi I really love this forum, for once I can put decent sized pictures on without problems a rising due to size and format. Love the ideas coming in radar recognition, paint test piece, apprentice piece, but surely the cost of her must have been an arm and leg. In todays money I guess she would cost over £15k to put together. One off castings costs a small fortune to make, some of her is as much as an inch thick cast alloy. Track, tensioners, suspension units, road wheels, armour, gearbox and motor mount, all cast. As for an apprentice model, there's too much casting, a hell of a lot of machining when CNC was thing of the future. The turret ring is single casting and the turret itself has been made from three pieces of 1/8 aluminum hammered to shape, rivited together, then polished. Even the track pins are detailed like the original. My own romantic idea is that she was a presentation piece that went horrbly wrong. The gearbox designed for her although gone, would have been complex, She was steerable because she has two final drive shafts, a single motor very large, driving though clutches? No battery space, so it was wire remote. (Miniturised R/C was'nt common for this type of model at the end of the 60's) A large sale to Iran was due around this time and a shiney large model with gold trim might have made a good presentation piece. But the drive system like the original, may have given the model builders problems. The picture shows the only remaining gear when I got her. It's way too small for the final drive as any gearbox guy would know. I think she was worked on and then discarded when the sale fell though, hidden away till the clear out came along. Ending up on evilbay as these things sometimes do. At least she was saved, and will carry on long after I've gone. We are all just custodians in the long run. Keep the ideas coming, what were the ropes for? All that detail on the cupola but no commamder sight? why is the no gunner or loaders sight? I hope someone must have seen her before she was deemed scrap at the depo. Thanks to all readers for taking the time. John

Hi Could not help seeing your thread on a large scale Centurion. Armortek did build a 1/6 scale model two years ago which was very nice. The tank kits are usually produced in batches depending on a calculated demand. ie 101x King Tiger's on the first batch, 50x Comet's on their first batch, repeated batches depend on worldwide demand. If you can afford one, I can only say they are beautiful models. Not sure how many Centurions were built by Armortek, guess 50, but here's one that was put up for sale recently. One was converted to working a bridge layer, looked and worked excellent, though I prefer the gun tank. The 1/24 scale Centuions by various makers can be converted to R/C, some have metal tracks and motor gearboxes, beware some are static only. If your interested in british tanks, Heng Long are supposed to be coming out with a 1/16 Challenger2 soon, like the Leopard2 already on sale. It's on my wish list. John