Old Git

Found this and thought it might be of interest (apologies to the mods if this is in the wrong section). This blog claims to be sourcing doco's from old Soviet tank archives and translating them to English. Might be worth a look for those of you interested in the Soviets..

http://tankarchives.blogspot.co.uk/2013_04_01_archive.html

Found it in some scans from the manual... 3.71:1 (40mph) on the Type D's and moved to 4.5:1 (32mph) on the Type E and F.

Superb, thanks for those! ....and still a good looking gal!

I have about 20 more I will download of more details, and some video too

Cracking job, can't wait to see them!

Does anyone know what the gear ratio was on the Cromwell? Also, any indication of number of teeth on the gear wheel and the pinion? I think, IIRC, there was about 50 teeth on the gear wheel?

Looking fantastic Kevin

You must taken more pics than this mate? Please post them up, I'm in need of a Cromwell fix mate!

Oh Yes, great set of pictures. Lot of lovely detail and big enough to zoom in on all those little interesting bits! Fantastic, Carlsberg-esque Piccies!!!

although it would be nice to see my cromwell, ian galliers comet, lances charioteer and melvyns centurion all together. the last of the british heavy cruisers

Now that would be a picture worth hanging on the wall!!!

Re the final drive, if the IoW guys have already stripped and rebuilt it I don't see that you'll need to do it again, sigh! There's goes my hope for some 'up-the-skirt' shots!

Looks like we'll have to start calling you Resto-Rick from now on mate! Another cracking resto mate, looking forward to the progress pics!!! Don't forget, if you're dismantling the final drive...nice big, clear pictures!

JC!!!,

good to see you here Geoff, you'll enjoy it here. This is one of my favourite sites on the Internet, I just sit here and soak it all up...but it does make it difficult to resist the urge to rush out and splurge on an Austin Tilly! Lovely, lovely little vehicle that. It breaks my heart every time I watch the Eagle has Landed!

Pete

Well Clive, thanks to your input I managed to track down a full list of those items in the National Archives Yesterday, (WO 279/434, Catalogue of Army Publications, Part 5: Index of Equipment Schedules, 1964). I was almost correct in my assumptions about the WO code's being in a logical order, see below.

I assume that these sets did not receive NATO Stock numbers because by the late 60's they were considered obsolete equipment within the NATO framework, whilst the other items, such as the model set for the Heavy Girder Bridge, kept their WO Code No. of 55011 but change their 1964 Cat. number of EP1494 for a Nato number of NF/6910-99-436-8870 at some later date: and as you say, the 8870 number appears to be totally random.

I now need to track down the CES for each of these sets but if the National Archives has a full complement of CES pamphlet's then I'm damned if I can find them. I've tracked down the 'war diary' for the CES secretariat (some riveting stuff in their, NOT!) and other files covering the setting up of the CES system but nothing that gives an indication of where the original CES data would be located. The inside cover of the Catalogue of Army Publications, Part 5 that I consulted at Kew yesterday, indicated that "C.E.Ss. for R.E. Equipment are held by - 2 ESD and Workshops" but I've been unable to track down records for these chaps either. I presume if the original CES data still exists it is held on microfiche somewhere, but where is something of a mystery. It looks like I'm going to have to break the sacred man-code and ask one of the surly staff at Kew for help!

PS Clive, I did take my camera with me but found that my battery was depleted and the memory stick was full (lots of pics of my son and his mates shooting Nerf guns in the back gardens...the joys of parenthood, nothing is sacred anymore). I'm up there again next week but it is a rather thick book so it may take a few visits before I get it all copied, is there anything in particular you're interested in? The vehicle section seems slim enough to do in a couple of hours.

in the upper right corner it says AFG 8461 (Rev. 75).

Re the relook code I don't think it's a year for rechecking as it's stencilled on the outside of the crate and appears to be part of the description of the content.

I've been trying to search down the relevant RE stores records at Kew but it would appear that the ones I want covering the last years of the war and up to the early 50's are missing, presumed lost!

Hi Clive,

I've just been looking over the crates for some of these sets and have found a code stamped on the outside of two of them and wondered if you knew what it was..

Relook/6895/63

Relook/6843/63

Any idea what these refer to?

Also, on the 'Combined Demand and Voucher for Stores' that I have there is an entry for 'Price per U O A'. I assume that U O A stands for 'unit of allocation' but can you confirm this?

Clive,

you are an absolute star mate and a true gent. I've learned so much from this little exchange and now have a much better idea of what I'm looking for and where to look for it. If I can get a good digital copies of any of these publications at the National Archives I shall happily email a copy to you. Don't envy me too much in the National Archives, if you've ever tried to search through their catalogue you'll know just how unintuitive the whole thing can be...headache inducing is how someone once described it. That said, if you find anything up there you want copying let me know and I'll put my trusty digital Camera to work on your behalf!

Rgds

Pete

Wow Clive, thanks for that mate! As you've no doubt noticed there's a listing on the bottom of that page for a Model Set G (which I didn't even know existed and which implies a set F as well that I now have to track down). As you can see the G set has a CES code No. of 55073 and a NF/Cat no. of EP 1580, but no longer 13 digit NATO code. Very Strange indeed.

This also implies a 55072 CES no. for Set F and is in line with the ones I gave above for sets A - E. Is there another page following this one? I find it odd that under Model Sets it lists the EWBB crib set but none of the other components to the model, or even the basic model set itself. By logic, (there's that word again) if they're listing the crib set there ought to be a listing for the 'Basic Model Set A' and the 'EWBB Conversion E Set' as well. (Now I need to find out what the F set was!)

I'll see if there's anything in this document in the National Archives but I'm not turning up anything in the National Archives on VAOS. I'd really like to see a VAOS, Section N dated for the 1960's as that should still contain the various components to this model and it various add-on sets! I don't suppose you know anyone who might have a mid-60's VAOS that can be consulted? Maybe the RE Museum Library will have one!

Hi Clive,

thanks for the feedback mate, what you've posted has been extremely useful and has given me more info on what to search for. I can see from the National Archives web site that they have a "Catalogue of army publications, part 5: index of equipment schedules" dated 1964. I shall be up at the National Archives on Tuesday so I'll consult, and hopefully photograph, this document and perhaps this will give me more info on the CES for these items. Hopefully! In the meantime I've added, below, a couple of pics I snapped of the CES I have here: first two images are front cover and amendment giving details of name change

This last one is a serial number that appears on the footer of one of the internal pages, not sure if it's a number for the actual CES booklet or something to do with the set itself...it does look typed, as opposed to printed, but I'm not 100% sure it is typed.

Hi Clive,

thanks for the replies mate, sorry it's taken me so long to get back to you but I've been away for the last week and had very patchy Internet access where I was so was unable to check in all week!

I had a feeling that these may not be on the Intranet as they're probably all very early CES which were probably laid down not long after the CES system came into use. I'm pretty sure about the serial's as I have CES 55009 in hand and I have CES deficiency notes giving me the serials for 55005 and 55071. I have used 'logic' to then fill in the gaps which of course may fly in the face of the Army's system but my reasoning for this is that the first five sets of this model were all in existence when the CES system was first introduced in the late 1940' and were most likely all catalogued together, and therefore in series. The final serial of 55071 was a 1954/55 addition to the CES system as this model set covers the EWBB conversion set and was obviously added to the catalogue after EWBB came into operational use in 1953/54.

I know they must have still been in the system in 1980 as I have a 'Combined Demand and Voucher for Stores' dated for November 1980 and this lists the description by its CES number, 55005; it also gives a Nato stock number of NF 1301. Whilst I also know that CES 55009 has a Nato stock number of NF 1451. (Again though, those must be very early Nato numbers as I do know that modern Nato Stock numbers have 13 characters).

Although, I think it was around the early 80's timeframe that the Army started to get rid of these models (I have talked to one ex-sapper who told me he was kicking his heels somewhere waiting to finish out his time when he was given the job of burning a load of these models, and that was sometimes in the 80's) although once again I have CES Deficiency State sheet for one of these model bridges and it is date 22.3.95. Maybe it would be worth going through the 'UK National Codification Bureau' in Glasgow to see if they can provide any meaningful reference to these early serials!

Rgds

Pete

Anyone still got access to the Intranet? I'm looking for a few CES for some fairly old kit, which may or may not, be on the intranet. These are the CES for the old RE model Bailey bridges and their numbers, from what I can ascertain are...

55005

55006

55007

55008

55009

55071

...these should correspond to model Bailey bridge, Sets A, B, C1, C2, D and E. I've actually got 55009 and have CES deficiency notes indicating what A and E are so I've 'filled in the blanks' on B & C. As I say any help at all would be most appreciated.

Thanks in advance lads

I was doing a bit of research at the National Archives on Tuesday and trying like buggery to get through the list I had in a reasonable time so I could get off home before the rush hour and the tube strike! Anyways, last few minutes and I have a quick search for a couple items that I may want to look at next time and I turn up two files with interesting titles. The first one was the dumping of surplus equipment, at the end of WWII, in coal mines, with locations; and the second file was about some gold that was dumped in a canal in Belgium in 1940, presumably when the BEF was making for Dunkirk!

As I say it was dying minutes of the day and I had to get a wriggle on so didn't have time to order them up for a looksee but I've been wondering about them ever since? I'm off skiing tomorrow for a week so it'll be after the 24th before I can get back but I'm gagging to know what's in both of them. Anyone here ever come across them, know if they're worth a butchers?

Pete

I've actually got the first volume but haven't gotten around to reading it just yet. However, here are a couple of reviews of the first volume cribbed from Amazon.co.uk...

Without a doubt the worst book on the North African invasion. Whilst he shows an aptitude for combing 1st person accounts with a steady paced strategic narrative Atkinson is no military historian and his inability to describe engagements in anything other than the immature hyperbole so beloved of the journalist historian is frankly embarrasing.

Under the impression that World War Two starts with the American landings, the author fails to balance his baleful ignorance with anything new leaving a book notable only for the length of the notes and sources (100 pages - wonder how many he actually read)

The only book I have ever thrown away (actually used it to light the BBQ, so it served some purpose)

A wanabe Ambrose who has watched too many 60's war films. Avoid. For those who need an American centric study Meeting the Fox is infinately better which is saying something (btomhutuk on Amazon).

And this one

With its Pulitzer Prize and long list of plaudits `An Army at Dawn' came with a great deal of expectation for this reader riding on it. On occasion I have been left underwhelmed by works carrying the weight of so many 5 star reviews. However in this case the laurels are all well deserved and I would have no hesitation about putting this up there with the very best of histories of the Second World War.

Although sub-titled `The campaign in North Africa 1942-43', Rick Atkinson's focus is here on Operation Touch and the subsequent Tunisian campaign. This means that 8th Army's operations in 1942 (Gazala and El Alamein) get very little mention until Montgomery's forces reach the Tunisian boarder in early 1943. The `Army' of the title is very much the US Army in its first major operation in the European Theatre of Operations, although ironically the action all occurs on the African continent. Whilst the story of this first rather amateurish and somewhat shambolic entry of the US military into WW2 is clearly the primary focus of the book, the author is then able to expand the scope of his work into a thorough account of the Tunisian campaign. Here the action switches between the enthusiastic but naive Americans and the experienced but battle-weary British and with all the controversies and clashes of personalities within the Great Alliance being first played out. These would continue through Sicily, Normandy and beyond the Rhine.

As a British reader it would be easy to become prickled by some of this American author's opinions on British generalship, in particular Generals Montgomery and Anderson. However Atkinson is more than scathing of the US performance where it warrants and in my opinion his analysis and conclusions on the performance of all parties is in the end fair and balanced. The author always displays great empathy and admiration for the courage and sacrifices of all the allies involved.

This book is particularly welcome as the Tunisian campaign is often overlooked by both US and British historians. Rick Atkinson goes a long way to restore it to its important place in the story of the defeat of Hitler and where the US Army was first tempered in battle. One can only be grateful that the fledgling US forces were not flung into a cross channel invasion in 1943 without the benefit of the experience gained in this campaign.

Perhaps an interesting element, which raises the work out of the normal military history crowd, are the accounts of the treatment of the Arab and native populations. Although the Allies are clearly liberators, for the indigenous peoples it is a more ambiguous experience. Not only is there the return of their colonial masters but also the random extrajudicial justice handed out by US and British forces. The author gives a number of examples of what would today be regarded as war crimes committed by the Allied armies against the local inhabitants but which are mostly ignored at the time. Clearly the past is a different country compared with modern heart-and-minds campaigns. It is this aspect which demonstrates that even a war with as clear a moral purpose as the WW2 is in the end drawn in ethical shades of grey.

Overall highly recommended and probably the best account you will find of the Tunisian campaign. I look forward to reading the next two parts of his `Liberation Trilogy' with enormous anticipation (N.Brown on Amazon).

It's a question of how you read that one sentence I guess

Or, the manner in which the sentence is worded! Can we confirm that the reported sentence is verbatim?

Incidentally, this is the third book in Rick Atkinson's trilogy on the American Army in WWII. He won the Pulitzer prize for his first volume, "An Army at Dawn", but that's a wee bit like getting a Purple Heart for being wounded by broken glass whilst sipping beer in an East End pub during the Blitz! :red: :angel:

Harry, I'd love to see a picture of these on the pure white background, like a sheet or a fresh fall of snow. Just to get the colour correction on the computer monitor!

Rgds

Pete

Offer them a ride in the country and a pub lunch, that should do it!

Not very likely, after 20 years together I've just got to walk into the Kitchen and say "hello darling" to hear the oft-repeated response, "if it's got anything to do with tanks or militaria the answer is NO!":blush:

Thanks Adrian for the answers! Re the engine compartment panel, DOH! It's three separate access panels not one big one. Sometimes y'just can't see the wood for the trees!!!! Or in this case the panels for the tin! And of course now that I'm looking at the drawings it all makes sense. I guess the extra markings on the drawings are some form of embossed feature on t5he panel, like stiffener grooves.

Some questions.....!?

LOL, all things being relative mate and given the number of questions that get thrown up when you've only got the drawings to go on, these are only a few!

Rick,

thanks for the offer buddy and I might just take you up on that. Given that I'm on the other side of London, Old Buck is a six hour round trip for me and given that I belong to the wife and kids most weekends I shall have to plan it out! Although Mid-term break is looming so there might be a window of opportunity there!

I'm hoping that some of you knowledgeable chaps might be able to help out here.

1.) Can anyone shed any light/Piccies on the access panels in the Engine compartment bulkhead. The only pictures I've managed to find of this bulkhead (as viewed from the fighting compartment) show a large access hole, with a curved top, leading into the engine compartment. I have a drawing from the tank museum which appears to show a large access panel held in place with wingnut or some sort. However, it also seems to show that this access panel contains three other access panels, immediately behind the bevel gearbox. Are these access panels within a bigger access panel or are they holes? I presume they're access panels or why else would you have a need for 'Air intake control flaps' on either side? Has anyone got any pics of what the complete panel looks like?

2.) Does anyone know if the newer forms of main fuel tap handwheels were more common on the Cromwell IV? The older type, as fixed to the lower right side of the engine bulkhead, resembled the chain drive on a bicycle with a handwheel, bicycle chain and a cog wheel. At some point they replaced this with a pair of vertical spigots. Just wondering if these were part of the FS upgrades or something that was introduced into the manufacturing process so that only later produced Cromwells had them?

3.) Drivers Seat: Can anyone explain (pics would be great) how the drivers seat attached to the floor and if at was hinged at the front to allow it to be tilted forward? I know the back of the seat lifted out to allow quick access to the drivers compartment but I think I've once seen a picture showing the seat tilting forward as though it were hinged at the front were the legs met the floor (can't find that pic though). However, I've also got a, not very clear, drawing that seems to indicate that the seat was on some sort of rails which allowed it to to slide foward/backwards which makes sense if trying to accomodate all leg lengths. Any pics of how the seat was constructed under the 'seat' area would also be great.

4.) Has anyone got any good pictures of various control units in the drivers area, i.e. attachement point for pushrods on/near the accelerator, brake and clutch pedals and generally all the levers and controls along the right-hand side, like mast, especially around the RH steering master cyclinder and the strangler lever.

5.) Can anyone scan a section of the Cromwell IV Handbook / Service Instruction Manual, the section covering the steering brakes and track brakes?

6.) Does anyone have a PDF version of the Cromwell IV Handbook / Service Instruction manual?

7.) Can anyone comment on how the outside armour plates come together, are they lipped with one overlapping the other or do they just but up together. And do you really need to remove the idler, idler axle and the tensioner before you can remove the foremost outsidfe armour plate?

Any help would be most appreciated, thanks in advance.

Pete