Old Git
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Posts posted by Old Git
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Hi Adrian,
thanks for the feedback, we've got the RA insignia on the Passenger side but Packhow and I of differing opinions on the Divisional markings on the Drivers side. It's an oblique angle so difficult to see, Packhow thinks in 43rd Wessex but I'm more inclined to think Canadian 4th Armoured Division. Care to Hazard a guess?
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The more I look at this the more convinced I am that this is 4th Canadian Armoured Division mate.\ it might be worth checking in Canadian archives to see if they have a doc on Cannuck mods to the WSC.
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Thanks again Adrian, that's brilliant info, nice to know that it comes with the later versions of the M5A1 as well. Just need to find some drawings for it now.
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Thanks for that Adrian, it's beginning to make more sense now. At first I thought it was built over the drivers hatch as an Armoured hood but I see it's just a screen in front. Found a bit of footage of 6th Guards Armoured Brigade in the bocage, with a couple of Stuart VI.
http://www.iwm.org.uk/embed/?id=1060019767
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So, as far as I know only the Guards Armoured Division fielded the Stuart VI in NWE? Would every Stuart VI have had this feature, or only some of them?
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Thanks for the reply Adrian, can always rely on you mate. As it happens I was just looking at some footage of the Berlin parade at the end of the war and spotted another.
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Just stumbled on this on the IWM and was trying to ascertain what type of Stuart it is. Now I'm no expert but it looks to me to be an M5A1, raised deck at the back, the Armoured thingy on the side of the Turret for the .30 Cal. etc. Can anyone confirm that it is an M5A1 and also if it was usual to have an armoured Glass visor on the M5A1? I don't think I've seen this combination before, but as I say I'm no expert.
Direct link if you want to zoom the photo is here: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205203359
© IWM (BU 5302) A Stuart tank of the Royal Scots Greys, 4th Armoured Brigade in Wismar, 4 May 1945
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Just about everything was used in NI, from SLR's to Armalites and right up to the 50 Cal, and that's just the Army. RUC had their own kit, S&W and Rugers and the players, well they had a lot of strange kit too!
It all depends on time frame!
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Hi Tim,
I've got what I need re the Battery boxes just want to see the actual cells that went inside the boxes. Are you aware of any web sites that show these?
Pete
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Hi Spencer54, thanks for those images and the info, I had seen these configurations before and I think I have a copy of War Illustrated from 1944/45 that has an article a two page, centre spread, drawing of a White in this configuration. I am fast coming to the conclusion that removal of the Roller was commonplace on British configurations whilst still being retained in some roles, quite what they were is still a mystery though!
Tim,
thanks for the answers mate. I've got a good understanding of the Battery box but would love to see a couple photos of an original battery. Do you have any, or can you link me to one on the net...I've been searching but haven't yet turned up a good photo of a battery...although admittedly I'm not 100% certain of what I'm looking for so I may already have seen it 😉
Pete
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Found the dims for the WS 19 wooden battery box over on the WS 19 web site. But would like to know, Tim, what you think about removal of forward stowage locker and replacement with the No.18 Battery mount?
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Tim,
Did you ever track down the dims for the Battery Carrier. Secy Port No. 18 for the WSC? Or better pics/drawings of it? I presume that they removed the entire stowage locker, between driver and passenger seat, and replaced it with this carrier, or did the carrier fit inside the stowage box?
Can you provide dims for the two wooden battey boxes that were used, these were the 6v x 170 Ah, right?
Also, do you have any dims for Mounting Brackets No.2 and No. 3 for the Aerial Bases?
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Re Pip Roberts' WSC, there's a nice bit of film of him in his WSC on the IWM website. It shows enough of the WSC to see that it seems to sport the standard British mods as shown in the photos above. Waiting to hear back from the Library at Bovington to see if they have any info on his WSC, or WSC's in general. That said, on Facebook I've found a PDF copy of an article by David Fletcher, which appeared in the MVPA publication, 'Supply Line', dated November 2014. Article is mostly concerned with the WSC in British use and, surprisingly, it doesn't contain the photos posted earlier in this thread which seem to show the standard British layout; and Fletcher himself seems a bit vague on what constitute the standard British layout which probably means he was unsure because none of this info is held at Bovi Library. C'est le vie!
Pip Roberts video at IWM is below, I taken a few stills from this. and they've proved useful
https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/1060019769
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Tim,
thanks for those photos mate, absolutely cracking and have a answered a few questions about these Combat rims!
I've been searching on IWM on search strings "White" AND "Scout Car" and have been specifically targeting the film/video clips they have on line. It's amazing what is coming up in these old clips and nearly all the Whites I'm seeing, in NW Europe, 44-45, have the same mods as Z 4955336 above! I'm pretty happy that I've tracked down the mods for the WSC in NW Europe and I think I've found the full census number for Pip Roberts WSC as well (which, if anyone is curious, may well be Z 4955321).
I'd love to know what his wireless setup was and if it was the same as the one of the standard WS 19 ones as listed in that pamphlet shown above. Incidentally, Rob Van Meel does a reprint of that pamphlet.
Pete
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Hi Tim,
could you post a pic of your spare wheel, front and rear of hub area?
Pete
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Tim,
it looks to me like this is just a couple of pieces of angle-iron, held together with cross members and bolted to the back of the WSC. The two upper cross members are obviously designed so as to not foul access to the two rows of footman loops on the back end. Those appear to be two wooden blocks, bolted to the bottom angle iron, to act as wheel rests. It doesn't look like a very complicated thing to make and anyone with welding gear could knock this up just by eyeballing it from these photos.
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OK, so after a abit of hunting around I have turned up the following images which seem to show the standard British conversions for the White Scout Car. From what I can see in the two photos below...
1.) removal of passenger side headlight and fitting of standard British side light. On Driver's side replacement of US headlight for Hooded British light and British side light.
2.) Removal of unditching Roller
3.) Fitting of Wing Mirrors; and something else I can't quite make out, on the passenger side, just in front of the Wing mirror.
4.) Also top of the cage, protecting head lights, cut away.
5.) This WSC has retained the Skate rail although we do know that it was removed in some others, notably Pip Robert's WSC which we started this thread with. Mods so far seem to accord wit configuration of Robert's WSC.
6.) There does not appear to be any US tools fitted so wonder if indeed they did come with the tools, or if it was intended to replace them with Standard GS Tools?
7.) Bridge Classification plate fitted to passenger side bumperette
8.) The WSC appears to be painted SCC 2 Brown, with a camo pattern overpaint SCC 14 Blue/Black Disruptive
9.) The tilt also looks as though it's been re-painted / re-coloured.
10.) On the rear of the WSC the Bumper has been removed
11.) Rear lights re-configured. Drivers side moved all the way to bottom of plate but Passengers side possibly left in situ or side moved up above where Bumper would have been. Differnt style of mountings for both lights
12.) On drivers rear side there is padlocked cage for mounting what appears to be 3 x Flimseys and I think this was later modified to take Jerrycans.
13.) On the passengers side a mounting, made from basic angle iron, for a spare wheel.
The Third photo show a WSC of the Czech Brigade entering Prague on May 5th, 1945. I believe these chaps may have been equipped by the British for, at the very least, the mods to their WSC's are very similar.
Fourth photo is a zoom in on the spare wheel rack on photo 3.
Would like to know what folks think?
Pete
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Packhow75, would you be interested in this...
https://www.portrayalpress.com/product-p/bsd-m3a1sc.htm
or this one...
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Have also just turned-up this drawing, not sure where it came from though. (have just discovered where this drawing is from and new image added below).
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Thanks for those pics, some of them I've seen already but a few I have not, so all very useful. Thanks for taking the time to post them. I've found some images of an Airborne Configuration for the WSC which I shall attach here, as a means of keeping all this info together for others, alongside another photo of a British WSC in Normandy...
I think my next port of call will be Bovington to see what info they have on Pip Roberts WSC.
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According to the link provided by Matchfuzee this isn't a type a of Zimmerit paste on these Cromwells but 'Rubber Strips', I'd like to know the provenance of that assertion because those stills would seem to indicate a paste rather than 'rubber strips', although I concede I may be seeing what I want to see.
When I first saw this footage I wondered if this Recce unit had over-run a German Maintenance unit and grabbed whatever stores of Zimmerit paste that were laying to hand. I think I'd like to see the war diaries for 2nd Northants to see if there's any reference to this.
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First Still, not sure which Cromwell but from 2 trp
Second Still shows Achilles
Third Still Shows Agamemnon
Last two stills show Galahad
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Found a wee bit of footage on IWM which shows several Cromwells from, what I believe to be, C Sqn, 2nd Northants Yeomanry, Troops 1 and 2. All of them are sporting some form of Zimmerit on the Turret.
There are at least three indentifiable Cromwells; Achilles T187676 and Agamemnon T187714 (from 1 Trp) and Galahad from 2 Trp (no Census #). Seems as though naming their tanks after ancient warriors was a thing for C Sqn and 1 Troop appears to be all names beginning with A so we can probably assume 2 Trp had a Cromwell named Gwain.
Link below...Have grabbed some stills from this and will try to upload them to the post. Lookout for the ant-magnetic wainscotting in the last couple of frames, 😉
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Hi All,
looking for pointers on whatever mods\configs were made to the WSC when in British use, especially for NW Europe in 1944. Have had a look around the forum and can't find anything definitive? Ideally, if anyone's got a pointer to a book, or file at the National Archives etc. which covers this topic I'd be most interested to hear of it.
I can see from period pics that in some instances the skate rail was removed completely, Pip Roberts Command version of the WSC being a good example. Incidentally does anyone know the full Census number for Roberts WSC, from the famous pic it looks to be Z 495533? Anyone confirm or deny?
Also, what radios other than the WS 19 would Roberts have had in the back of his WSC. The following bit of film shows several attennae...and a spare wheel on the back. Any ideas?
Also, any info on the WSC in RE use? I think they also used them in the Recce / Radio role and I have a note from the RE office who scouted the Bailey bridge build for Putanges in 1944. His diary notes that he took two WSC's with him and left one on the hill outside of town as his rear radio link. Anyone aware of anything specific about RE configurations of the WSC?
White Scout Car in British use, NWE 1944
in MV Chatter
Posted
Superb looking WSC, I especially like the Aerial mount brackets!