Enfield1940

Hi,

I’ve just acquired an example of what it described on Karkeeweb as the ‘Stores Ref. CN / X / 11871 LPG 4338 POUCH, MAGAZINES, SLR (Local Pattern)’:

http://www.karkeeweb.com/patterns/1958/components/component_np_local.html

I’ve been trying to find out a bit more about them and came across the following interesting comment on an airsoft forum:

“seen pictures of guys with them in a couple of old school SAS books by Tony Geraghty. Its a local/field made SLR/M16 mag pouch used in Aden & Oman by the SAS (& probably others too)”.

http://z15.invisionfree.com/smallwarsairsoft/index.php?showtopic=62&view=getnewpost

Whilst inconclusive, I also came across the following picture of Lt Col John Woodhouse. He appears to be wearing a similar looking pouch on his left hip:

http://www.warfaremagazine.co.uk/articles/With-the-East-Surreys-in-Tunisia-Sicily-and-Italy-1942-45/50

So does anyone have any further information on the who, why, when and where of these pouches? I assume the Tony Geraghty books are ‘This is the SAS: A Pictorial History of the Special Air Service Regiment’ and ‘Who Dares Wins: The Special Air Service 1950 to the Falklands’. If anyone reading owns a copy of these, could they possibly have a flick through and see if there are pictures that show these pouches?

Thanks,

Mark

I picked up a mint MTP CS95 windproof smock last year when it appeared on eBay with a reasonavle BIN. It had a strong eau de stores packet, so I'm fairly certain it had been issued but never used. There's an obvious analogy with DPM P60, so it may prove a good investment.

*sigh*

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/290985102031?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Unfortunately I didn't save the details, but there was a 'fashion' combat jacket on eBay earlier this year that had obviously been fairly closely copied from a '60 Patt smock. If it had been in a bigger size, I might well have bought it. The listing mentioned a brand name, but nothing turned up when I googled it.

If someone wants to make a bomb, they should sell copies of the OG windproof Cadet smocks in 21st century adult friendly sizes.

£250 for a first issue DPM Para Smock:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-1970s-Smock-Parachutists-DPM-Para-insignia-Brigadier-/321192511892?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AVRI&nma=true&si=YDFsSO8myAQZtxBNh9ix0TmMXA4%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

A quick public vote of thanks to Steve for the replacement zip for my friend's size 6 P60 smock. He got someone to replace the old zip and as you can see, it's now a very nice and very wearable example.

Cheers,

Mark

Now taken.

I have a used olive green 1978 dated MkIII NBC smock and trousers that are surplus to requirements. Size medium. They have some exterior marks, but are otherwise quite tidy.

They can either be collected from me at Military Odyssey on Saturday 24th August or from my home in Bishops Stortford (near Stansted Airport) at a weekend or evening or from the West End of London during the week.

PM me to arrange if seriously interested.

I'm surprised that no-one has yet mentioned the VCR Act. Surely that's one of the main drivers behind the increase in the price of de-acts?

That may be a contributing factor, although I'd have thought replicas would have been more interest to reenactors than collectors and the former can still buy replicas?

I still think it's a matter of supply and demand: The modern deact market has been going since 1988 and most of the 'low hanging fruit' of potential supplies is probably now long gone.

It would be very interesting to hear what someone at Ryton / D&B / WWA / etc. has to say about the practicalities and costs of sourcing their stock.

You could just ring the Birmingham Proof House and ask if they'll issue a deact certificate for a fired LAW or whether they require further work?

http://www.gunproof.com/

They're a private company, not a law enforcement body so it's not their job to catch people out.

Any chance of some photos of the Mk5 STEN? Last one I saw from the same dealer was a real piece of work, it didn't have the back end of the bolt fitted, it just had the cocking handle crudely welded in place.

 

What Webley parts do you need?

I don't have any pics I'm afraid. I don't recall exactly how the cocking handle was attached although I know it wouldn't move. Interestingly the barrel nut wasn't welded on (unlike the rest in the pile) although it didn't seem to unscrew, just move slightly.

I'm after the following Webley MkIV bits:

Cam lever fixing screw

Cylinder stop axis pin

Cylinder stop

Cylinder stop spring

Plunger

Plunger pin

Plunger spring

Or to summarise, I need a cam lever fixing screw plus a complete cylinder stop assembly plus the pin that holds it in the frame. I'm also after a pair of grips: I've ordered some from Target Arms, but the proprietor seems to have gone on his hols or something as this was nearly 2 weeks ago and the order is still just 'pending'

WWA were quite obliging and allowed me to take a trigger guard screw off another MkIV they had in their restoration project box.

I'm looking for a Sterling now to complete my kit!

D&B had a pallet of deactivated Sterlings for £395 each at War & Peace.

A friend of mine bought one of the D&B MkV Stens for £495. Sadly I don't have that kind of budget these days, so I settled for an incomplete / restoration project WWII Webley MkIV from World Wide Arms for £100. (All leads for Webley MkIV parts gratefully received)

I take a 'the only objective measure of whether a deact is overpriced is whether or not it sells' approach to these things. No doubt some dealers price things optimistically, but ultimately it comes down to supply and demand.

An initial thought... I doubt the SMG pouches would have been issued in pairs like that. If you were heading out to battle armed with an SMG, you'd put the magazines in standard '58 Patt ammunition pouches. The SMG pouches were intended for people like RMP who were armed with an SMG, but didn't need to carry a lot of ammunition for it.

Hi,

I'm planning to replace some missing para wings on a recently acquired 1977 type Para Smock. I've bought a couple of potential badges and I attach a pic. The lower one is allegedly Falklands era, whereas I don't know how old the upper more faded one is. As you can see the lower one has had the edge trimmed and this has also been done on the wings on another 1977 type Para Smock I have.

So... was it normal practice to trim the edges of para wings to be stitched to Para Smocks circa the early 1980's? I think the more faded one would look better on the smock, but would it be more authentic to trim it smaller first?

Thanks,

Mark

They also made new ones:

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2013/01/1978L4Wallet_zps79b84157-1.jpg

I picked one up at Stoneleigh this year.

Here you go:

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2013/01/1978L4HoldallAsPerText_zpsab1f1ac7-1.jpg

I have examples of their repro leather 1939 Pattern braces and brace attachments. Very nice quality.

An interesting piece. Wild guess: does the 'CS06' mean 'Clothing System 2006'?

Great minds think alike.

It does seem a little 'untypical' of markings on British military clothing. Any former members of the Bedfordshire Army Cadet Force out there..?

A DPM windproof cadet smock picked up today. This is kind of an eBay gamble that didn't pay off as I was hoping it would be bigger and in better condition so it'll probably get re-sold in the not too distant future. It's been slashed and re-sewn down the back, the label is missing and the corner of one of the pockets has been repaired with a different piece of DPM fabric.

I note that it has been marked 'BEDS ACF' on the left breast by stencilling it on in yellow paint. Was this normal for ACF smocks? Also, is there a way of approximately dating it?

Cheers,

Mark

Update: I took the plunge and bought an allegedly Falklands era pair of parachute qualification wings via eBay. I attach some comparison pics with the wings with on my pre-metric labelled 1977 Type Para Smock on the right which I think are contemporary to the smock.

I haven't attached the new wings yet, I've just posed them over the glue marks.

Cheers,

Mark

Nice. A very 'minty' smock... I really like the colour variations of 1970's DPM.

Thanks for the comments. I forgot to ask: is gluing badges on common / normal? I've turned it inside out and it looks like the tips of the now missing parachute qualification wings had a stitch through them to hold in place, but the wings weren't stitched on 'properly' around the edge.

Also; I'm mulling over replacing the missing wings - do later 1970's / early 1980's wings have any distinguishing features?

Thanks,

Mark

Denisons are expensive enough as they are!

Not unlike a lot of WWII German stuff their value seems to be governed more by their desirability than their rarity. I'd like a Denison for my collection, but the 'going rate' has gone rather above my level of desire. Hopefully I'll bump into a bargain one day, but if not I can live without.

Anyway; I have a pre-metric labelled DPM Para Smock and they're much rarer.