R Cubed

Hi all,

 

I am pleased to report that with the invaluable help of Singe and some known good components removed from his own vehicles we have managed to get the Dingo running a lot better. First a good carb was fitted so that we knew that side of things was ok. It still ran badly but maybe a little better. Six new spark plugs were then swapped in and the ignition timing was tweaked and it ran a lot better. We then re-fitted the old carb and it ran worse again. We shimmed the float needle valve out with another washer to further reduce the fuel level in the float chamber and the small seal on top of the emulsion tubes was replaced as it didn't seem to have been done in the rebuild. After that Singe drove it up and down the drive and declared that it wasn't too bad. It seems there is something wrong in the top of the carb but we cannot work out what as there's not a great deal there.

 

We think it would benefit from a replacement carb but they are rare and expensive. My gut feeling is that if it gives any problems in the future we should look at adapting a more modern carb onto it. (of course I'd be fitting a Cummins if I had my way :cool2:).

6BT I hope :nut:

Anyway I have a set of plugs on their way and then hopefully it can be returned to its happy owner.

 

Many thanks to all on here who have given their thoughts, and special thanks to Singe and ChrisG for their loan of parts and their expertise.

 

Cheers - MG

Hi Richard,

 

I fitted one of these engines into a Diamond T Wrecker last year, which so far seems to be a success. I put the original DT gearbox on to it but had to change the clutch housing to the larger SAE 3 fitting which meant finding the larger flywheel, clutch, and starter motor. My question is, having retained the original SAE 2 clutch housing and gearbox, how did you adapt the gear change which I assume was remotely operated?

 

I had hoped to post some pictures of fitting the Cummins in to The DT, but have had problems with my computer and changed from Windows XP which was brilliant, to Windows 8 which to say the least has been a retrograde step and is crap. I have not been able to do half the functions I could do with XP, and posting pictures is one of them.

 

Tony.

Yep you are spot on the Leyland DAF trucks are all COE and so the gear leaver opperation is via a very strange bar assembly to the side opperated leaver on the gearbox, more on this later too you are all jumping the gun here just sit back and be patient all the goury details will come out sooner or later you are all just going to have to wait. :cool2:

Hello R Cubed

 

Was wondering why you did not use the original transmission since your truck has a winch.

The transmission you used, Does it have overdrive ?

The Cummins is longer then the 270 GMC, You must cut through the cowl.

Jeff

Well Jeff, mainly as the cummins came with the zf gearbox I thought it would be the sensible route to take as it is designed for the cummins engine power output and torque also the clutch is designed to work with both, I have heard some shafts and gears in the GMC Clarke gearboxes are prone to failing, I think 3rd gear as it is only a press fir to another gear and also are very hard to get hold of.

The ZF box is a 5 speed box 1st is between 1st and 2nd on the clarke box, 2nd on the ZF is between 2nd and 3rd on the clarke box, and so on untill you get to 4th on the ZF which is 1:1 and then 5th on the ZF is variable depending on the spec of the box but all are very close to 5th on the clarke box something like 0.97:1

The ZF box has standard PTO take off blank plates on both sides of the box and I am yet to fit the winch PTO to it, a still to do job.

The Cummins and the ZF box are much longer so yes I have cut the firewall but will all have to wait for that.

Looks like you have done admirably in that respect!

 

Although I think the extent of the alterations you've had to do is almost tantamount to confirming that it is not possible to put a 6B into a CCKW :D

Ahhh, but I have, and it seems very reliable at the moment, although you would have to be well up on your engineering and fabrication skills, as this beasty has pushed me nearly to the limit, however I do like a challange :wow:

Stay tuned for more instalments, if you are a purist on originality dont look any further as there is some serious cutting action to come, but as I have always maintained I would be able to put it back to original spec and I doubt if you did'nt know what had been done I doubt you would ever know, and I am getting about 16 miles to the gallon.

Ouch....severe pain in the wallet:wow:

That was nothing compared to the air brake fittings ect, but thats for later time.

Might just be a touch of tenneritis Degsy.

Nope not tenneritis more like fiftyitis :blush:

Just wondering if you have taken into consideration the increased torque the driveline will be getting. Tooltallmike has done several conversions on Ward LaFrance's with this engine, however, the driveline is heavier duty than the one on a GMC. I do not know if the transfer case and axles would take it as you are introducing a a couple of hundred more pounds of torque into the equation.

 

Your thoughts?

 

John G

hmmmmm you are probably right about the extra torque it's obviously lots more, the conclusion I came to is to drive it cautiously, however regarding the diff / axles due to there being a low range in the transfer box when this is selected the torque multiplication would be increased many times so conclusion diffs / axles could be ok !! we will have to see.

Transfer box is another thing completely I have a plan for this which involves getting new shafts and gears made to do away with the high / low gear selector which I believe is the only real weak point in the split axle boxes, again time will tell.

John,

 

The engine spec I fit to WLFs are 125+hp more than this one, however there is still considerably more torque than the original truck design allowed for so I suspect it will have to be driven gently. I wonder what the weakest point of a GMC drivetrain? On a WLF it's the Xfer box.

 

Although it's not remotely the approach I would have taken, as an engineering project it's very interesting and I'm looking forward to the next instalment.:drive:.

 

Regards - MG

Mike, regarding the weak points who knows, drive gently yes, there is a definate improvement in acceleration so that in it's self proves there is more torque. There is a guy in the states which runs the bigger 6 pot engine I think 302cu inch which I think produces about 150HP dont know the torque but he also tows lots as well. Going by the rest of the truck all the drive train could be well over engineered and may be fine, we will see.

As an engineering project yes I can safely say it has pushed my thought processes to the limit, engineering wise I knew once I started exactly what I wanted to achieve but having never undertaken such a large engine conversion before, the first thing was when you are starting with bare chassis rails everything is variable and where ever you put someting it will affect something else which you have not fitted or some items which have to go back in one place only.

.

Would I do it again....... yes.

Knowing now what I do and where parts go it would be a much easier task to make a start. The worst thing I had problems with was trying my very best to make it as respectable as possible first time while not trying to make it someting it's not. Just to look right and not just thrown in and bodged together.

Nope, sorry to say due to the engine and the gearbox being longer and keeping room between the front of engine and rad for a fan, I had to move the transfer box backwards down the chassis about a foot so the front prop is longer and the rear two props out from the transfer box are shorter the only original prop is between the pilow block and rear rear axle, there is also a custom prop between the ZF gear box and the transfer box too as the yoke on the ZF box is the next size uj up from the GMC ones and it is a custom length to match the gap.

mmmmm nice shiny new props new uj's and ballanced too, what luxury

Did you manage to keep the props at their original length?

Just for NOS, here you go how about this, it's a bit of a better side view showing the short g box to t fer box prop, below and in the fore ground is the front prop.

Have you mounted the transfer box at the same angle as the gearbox?

The transfer box has to be mounted square to the chassis rails as that is the way the cross member is fitted, the main gearbox in the pics is not at the correct angle as at this point I had not finished designing and fitting the front engine mount, I think there is a slight angle difference on the uj at the main gearbox end but if I can remember its only about 5deg not ideal but it was the best I could get due to all maner of other things.

I was going to comment on the extreme angle of the inter-box prop and then realised I was trying to mate up the gearbox to the output flange for the front axle prop :wow: :rotfl::n00b:

Ahhh, after I posted the pics and then looked back at them I did think someone might get the wrong end of the stick but I have to admit the pics are at a bad angle but there you go, and you did twig in the end, or was I doing it to keep you lot on your toes :angel:

Well having got the new super dooper new bent bits of steel for mounting the transfer box I needed to mark out all the holes slots ect then test fit to make sure it all goes where it should. So here you can see the new one fitted just behind the old one.

Just offering up the transfer box to see how it fits, in the first pic you can see the rear of the new gearbox in the background. In the next couple of pics you can see the transfer box temp mounted and the gap between the new gearbox yoke and the transfer box uj flange. Just right for a nice new prop.

Here you are looking forward from just in front of the first rear axle, just see they both look just right hmmmm.

Who did you use for metal fabrication/bending?

Just a small private engineering company down here on the south coast.

Hi all back again for another installment. In the last pics above you can see the output yoke of the new gearbox is touching the input flange of the transfer box, very bad as there should be a propshaft in there, hmmmm what now, so at this point the engine and gearbox are roughly in the correct place for front to back positioning.

Right so the transfer box has to come out for the time being.

Below you can see transfer box is about to be removed and lowered down the long piece of timber just above the jack head is bolted to the jack.

Here it is out and on the floor, for your information the split axle transfer boxes are heavy roughly about 100Kg's

Here is what is left just a very substancial bracket !

So what to do.... I decided the transfer box had to go backwards down the chassis to give me enough room to get a propin there, so the next step was to decide how to do that. 1- could cut out the original transfer box crossmember and move it backwards, bad idea as it is such a large item and also hot riveted in many places I thought it might prove an issue as it does provide a bracing effect to the two chassis rails.

Option 2- make an identical new crossmember and asociated brackets to fit in behind the original one, good idea.

So below you can see the new identical copy of the original one, the second picture shows the top hat profile of the main crossmember I did consider bending this in my teeth as I have done with other brackets ect, but as this is 6mm thick and a tad over 600mm long I got an engineering company to do it, as it turned out the press brake they had was rated at 65 tons and when I went to collect it they said there was not much left in it so quite a job, but it turned out absolutly perfect not a single twist or warp in it, i was well chuffed.

Hi Richard, at what point did you bury your head in your hands and think 'what have I started on here?'

Hmmmm, well it's like this. I do like a challenge, But.

Once you have taken the rad and suround off, the cab off, the old engine and gearbox out, transfer box out and other leavers, brackets and thingies ect you are left with a large space from the front of the front crossmember all the way back to the fuel tank, dont forget its a 352 !

So when you put something in this space, you then realise with a startling fact that there is no starting point, anything you fit anywhere WILL have an effect on someting else you have NOT fitted yet so where do you start...

Go in and think about it for several weeks, well nearly.

Hi what are you doing with the OLD engine?,

I contemplated putting a 4 pot MAN engine in mine,

fits just right

All old bits are to be held on to as if I was ever to return it to a GMC engine I would have all the parts to fit right back on it.

I did consider a 4BT but they sound a bit van like and thought the 6BT would sound more truck like which it does, very nice.

Once the cab and old engine and box are out you are left with all the bits and bobs which are attached to the chassis rails under the cab such as the Hydrovac and brackets, brake master cylinder and bracket, high, low / front axle leavers and bracket, gearbox mounts very quickly it dawned that this is a much longer engine and box than what had just come out !

So all above items had to come off, some of these do not just unbolt they are hot riveted so what I did with these items so as to be reversable all I did was to drill out the rivets.

The other stroke of luck came by the way of the starter motor being on the same side a the GMC engine this meant that is was out of the way of the steering box a major bonus, phew.

As you can see the high low bracket was well in the way, just infront of these leavers would be the gearbox mounts which would be hot riveted to the chassis these have already been drilled out and removed as the bellhousing is also much bigger.

Also when you test fit something you realise what other things are in the way..... like say the transfer box, doh.

So what now hmmmm well the transfer box has to go, at least that gives me a clear space, more on the transfer box later.

Hi all well here we go, some of you might have heard about this when it was over in france last year. Well if not here we go.

This thread will detail how I have fitted a Cummins 6BT and ZF s5-42 gearbox out of a Leyland DAF 10ton tipper into my GMC 352, having had the truck for many years I have got fed up with the fuel costs, so when this engine and box came up for sale I thought it would be an ideal engine swap !!! Some said it could not be done, but I have done it and also covered roughly 700 miles fuel consumption is well under half of what I was doing..

First step remove cab and old engine and gearbox to get to chassis rails and see what I have to play with.

here we have removed the cab complete which is heavy as some of you will know.

This is what we used for cab and engine moving high enough to get the pieces over the front of the rear body.

Now time to get the old engine and box out we did the same thing as the lifting frame is stationary we had to move the truck about.

Would be nice to see some pics of what parts you have used. Glad to hear you have got to the bottom of it.

Cheers guys,

 

Do any of you know the dimensions of the open cab with all the canvas removed. I'd like to know it'd fit inside the workshop for future reference, as indoor storage is always far better.

 

 

Merry Xmas

 

Paul

If you take the rear canvas and bows off, leave the seat slats in place and take the cab canvas and cab steel hoop off and fold the windscreen down it will only need just over 7 feet of height to go in and they are all 7 foot 6 inches to the sides of the rear bed in width.

Lengths vary 353 is longer than a 352 but then you get the options of with winch or no winch.

Dont forget the type of timber to use :shocked:

Would solve the halftrack track problem :cool2:

Could do it with an air portable without any mods to the GMC

Have seen the JCB GT years ago at a truck show.... not really a JCB loads and loads of it all fibreglass and all very different to a proper JCB

Not what I would want for Christmas :cool2:

how did it stall, usually the cummins are quite pokie when idling ! was it as you let the clutch up if so are you sure you have not left it in gear. Can you turn the engine physically?

My DAF has been standing for a while and I went to start it the other day,

 

It started first time as usual all sounding quite normal.

 

It ran as usual while the brakes built up air but It stalled when I attempted to move it.

 

It wont turn over at all the solenoid just clicks,

 

the batteries were new last year and have 28v

 

any body any idea what to do next bearing in mind the lorry is parked close to a wall and the brakes are on lifting the cab is not an option

 

I thought of attaching a jump lead direct to the starter motor will that do any harm?

 

David

Yep you are right second series tandem piston type, rex should have the kits.

Yup start with the fluid level in the master cylinder under the cab floor, if low then check all brake lines and joints all along the chassis rails and flexie hoses to drums and then the drums themselves if you can see no leaks there is only one other possibility the fluid is leaking into the hydrovac, depending on the type rex might have a kit and he might even do it for you :cool2:

Here try this

5-7mpg sounds rather low to me, running empty I would expect to get 8-10 mpg.

Ahhhh but 16 MPG sound better !!!!! :cool2:

They are great trucks to own, had my 352 for getting on for 18 years now and would never get rid of it, its now part of the family.

Probably the biggest problems with them are as Degsy says are tyres, they will perrish and crack before you wear them out which is a pain but most other parts on them are just like a big series land rover.

One other thing which has just poped into my mind is the two types of cab, open and closed, the open ones are about a foot wider so can nearly get 3 people in it and much cooler to drive the closed cabs are hot as far as I have been told, my 352 is an open one and would have no issues driving it in any kind of weather obviously the rain does get in with an open cab but its not as bad as you would think.

Good luck you will enjoy one if you are a bit mechanicaly minded.