Old Bill

Thanks, I shall look forward to seeing the notes.

In my youth, I used to act as engine or boiler room hand (greaser or stoker to you nautical types!) on the Royal Naval Museum's steam picket boat 198 which had a very similar engine by Mumford. The main difference was that it had a wet sump and the mechanism was closed in which helped things along greatly. In typical steam boat fashion, it had a huge low-speed propellor. If I remember correctly, it was 2' 9" diameter but at 13 knots, it was doing only 120rpm. At that speed, the out-of-balance forces were so much that the bottom of the boat used to bounce and you could feel the deck plates moving up and down. If on the engine, I would throttle back a bit until it stopped as I really didn't want the engine falling through into the 'oggin with me after it! Oh, happy days.

198 can be seen in the mast pond on the rhs as you go through Unicorn gate into Portsmouth Dockyard.

Steve

Back to the photo, where is that engine? It looks like it is plumbed in to run so must be a museum somewhere. Is it a picket boat engine as it looks like the right size?

Steve

Yes, we could do that too although I would be a bit concerned that it might move once the sleeve began to heat up during braking which is a problem they had on the railways, I understand.

Steve

Thanks for the suggestion. We did have metal spraying up our sleeves as a final solution but thought that a simple skim would sort it out well enough. I have only seen the photographs above but I think that although it appears a bit poxy there is enough shiny metal there to avoid any serious damage to the linings. After all, the normal service brake is the hand brake and the pedal operated transmission brake is always described as the 'emergency brake' in the manual, so it shouldn't get much use.

Incidentally, does anyone know when the foot brake became the service brake and what instituted the change?

Steve

The Sentinel Standard Waggon has plain bronze bearings with grease lubrication. It is also quite a heavy machine compared with a petrol wagon (the main downside of steamers) so I don't expect that the vibration of a donkey engine would cause it much trouble.

Steve

Bringing this topic vaguely back in the military direction, my science master in the late 1970s used to line up various implements on the front desk at the beginning of the lesson with the threat he would break one by the end. There would be a plimsole, a ruler and a paddle with handle. Funny thing is, it was always treated as a joke and we all had the greatest respect for the guy. This went up when we found out that he had been a POW in the Second War. I found out that he had been a Wellington bomber pilot so I asked what he thought of them.

'Didn't fly high enough or fast enough' was the short answer!

From another source, I picked up that he had escaped from camp and stolen a motor cycle only to be recaptured on the Swiss border. From such stuff are heroes made.

Steve

The fire pump engine had a complete clutch of a later type than the lorry so whilst some bits are common, some are not. We have some of the correct bits and could, probably, lash up something that will work. However, as we will have to make quite a few bits, we might as well make them to be correct for the vehicle and so that is the plan. The main clutch cone is in super condition and won't even need re-lining. Father has already made a new clutch release shaft and I have completed the clutch brake shoes and part of the release linkage. However, I am still not quite sure what we actually have so the next job for me will be to lay it all out on the ground and assess the job. We are fortunate that we have an original assembly drawing so I can draw up the bits from that and we can make them up between us. All good fun.

Steve

Interesting assembly. I assume there are further planet gears inside the crown wheel to give differential action.

Looks almost like a modern limited slip unit with the workings sealed.

Hi Norman.

Yes, the gears are inside. It is a spur gear diff rather than the more common bevel type so there are quite a few more gears inside. However, as they are straight cut, they are much easier to make. It will be interesting to see how much wear they have suffered. That will have to wait until the brake drum and shoes are sorted, however. One thing at a time!

Steve

Both Father and I have one of these. They are very good value for a home modellers machine at under £500 but I would love a Bridgeport. That won't happen but we can do nearly everything we could want with this one so I am content.

Steve

Thank you for that. The lack of standards at the time obviously made the specification of oils by the various manufacturers quite difficult. Another manual I have says to use 'a good quality gear oil' whatever that is. I wonder how the Military coped?

A similar problem arose in the second war with unrelated steel standards from various manufacturers causing the introduction of EN grades (Emergency Number) by the Government in 1943. These have proven very useful because even though they have been obsolete for 30 years plus, we still talk about EN1a, EN8 and EN24T at work today and know exactly what we all mean by them. Another bit of useless information for you.

Cheers!

Steve

 

Talking about the possibility of oil leaks, would I be right in saying the gear oil would be thicker than SAE140, possibly 240 or thereabouts.

 

I probably could answer this question myself as I have a manual for a very early Dennis somewhere :confused:, but would be interested to hear what you use in your WW1 lorries.

Hi Richard.

In the gearbox, we will be putting a 460 grade compounded steam cylinder oil which is pretty thick. I rang Morris's oils when we did the FWD and the chap there said 'just let me have a look in the book' whereupon he found it listed! The steam oil is the nearest to what his book said. At the same time, he recommended a 680 grade for the back axle but that lorry has a bevel drive whereas the Dennis has a worm so I will give them a ring again before we fill that. I can thoroughly recommend Morris Oils for their helpfulness and service and their pricing was pretty fair too. This is good news as there are twelve gallons of oil to be poured into the Dennis!

I should be interested to hear what your manual recommends. Ours says only ' a good quality gear oil' for the box and axle and 'Vacuum A' for the engine.

Steve

Hi Norman.

Our general aim is to produce a vehicle which looks as if it has been maintained using only factory components although it doesn't matter if it looks a bit 'used'. To that end, we will seal it up using the same method as designed and live with the leaks. If it doesn't drip, it isn't a proper old lorry! Mind you, now that you metion it, I am not quite sure how the change rods are supposed to seal. I need to look at the bits again but living 200 miles from one's project can make it a bit hard and we don't seem to have a clear photograph of them in spite of taking over 2000 so far!

Christmas project is to put it all back together and hang it in the chassis. More pictures to follow soon!

Steve

What a wonderful vehicle! Eminently do-able. If only life were longer!

Steve

With my particular interest in the Great War, I wanted something really well known but also laughable. ('Subsidy' or 'Solid Tyres' just didn't have the right ring). Unfortunately, it took me six months to realise that to most people, 'Old Bill' is the Police force! Clear concience I guess.....

Steve

This is not one of my crushers so I can't offer definitive comments. However in general use, it is normal to put the magnet on the discharge side to remove rebar and such like once the concrete has been crushed off of it. Whilst jaw crushers don't like steel, their closed side setting is often of the order of 100mm so bigger bits can get through and they are reasonably tolerant of the sort of steel they might be fed. Hopefully, anything bigger will be spotted by the excavator driver. Well, most of the time.

The marine aggregate people often dredge up munitions so theirs is a special case and they would put magnets before the crusher to pull things out. Of course, their feedstock is usually small stuff anyway so there shouldn't be anything big enough to trap the steel. I have heard of crushers being used to remove anti-personnel mines by feeding the topsoil through them thus detonating the mines but I have no idea how effective that was. Sounds pretty frightening to me. One of my colleagues went out to see a machine in the quarry and found that it had a bent jaw. Apparently, this had been caused by part of the quarry blast not detonating until it reached the crusher!

This crusher was working in France on a WW1 battlefield and, as crushers are pretty robust by their general nature, I would guess that it must have been subjected to a pretty big bang and the excavator driver given quite a fright!

A Traffic in action!

Steve

I have been in contact with Mike who owns the Kemna in the pictures above and he doesn't think it is a Kemna!

He believes it's a MAN, produced in Germany between 1919 and 1921 of which a handful were exported to North Africa. The cylinder block shape suggests it's an MAN. What is unclear is what the odd arrangement of levers are for around where the crankshaft and con rod should be. Presumably these are something to do with the tackle.

So there you have it.

Cheers!

Steve

Actually, it wasn't that bad. Whilst the BBCs organisation was a bit disappointing, we weren't really doing it for them but because it was rememberance weekend. We didn't get very wet, had some nice conversations and it was very relaxing. I also got to drive around in Exeter which is great fun. It was a bit of a non-event but we had a nice day and an excuse to take the lorry out. All in all, I think we were up on the deal. Anyway, we only play with old lorries for the fun of it!

Steve

Super pictures. Thanks Rick. The very few and lightweight spokes in the front wheels are quite distinctive

I had the great good fortune to have an outing on Mike Retmans Kemna and I have this pic. Unfortunately, as I was steering, I was too busy concentrating on what I was doing to take a decent pic! This is me anyway.

Cheers!

Steve

Hi Kuno.

Sorry for the delay. My knowledgeable steam friends are of the opinion that this engine is a 'Kemna' which is German. Unfortunately, I know little of the company but a 1917 Kemna haulage engine, built for the German Army, exists in the UK. I will try and find a picture.

Cheers!

Steve

Likewise. It's great to see all the detail pics and all the individual jobs which have to be done. A lot of people just don't realise what goes into a restoration job. I'm getting an education in diesels too!

Keep up the good work!

Steve

Watching an expert spinning is quite fascinating and there are a good couple of clips on Youtube. My efforts have produced satisfactory results but I am by no means fast at it. The whole process is a bit hard on the lathe too, as it puts fairly severe side loads on the bearings and, as you can see, I only have a modest Myford Super 7.

The pics were taken through my workshop window at about 5pm. Good for pictures but actually quite blinding at times. Normally I run on three strip lights placed on each wall and an anglepoise on the bench

I am always amazed to find that some of you chaps carry out restorations without a lathe. Goodness knows how you do it as I would be completely lost without mine!

Steve

Thanks Tim. Must learn how to post pics!

Just thought you might be interested to see some metal spinning. This process is not common in the home workshop but I read about it and thought it worth a try. Now I can do it, it has proved its worth on many occasions.

The first pic shows the wooden block or 'chuck' as it is known over which I am about to push that disc of brass. The brass has been lubricated with soap as grease tends to fly off at speed which, in this case, was about 1400rpm. The second and third pics show me pushing it over using a piece of polished and hardened silver steel set into an ash handle about the size of a baseball bat. The great length of handle is required to generate the large forces needed for the process although in this instance the job is quite small. The brass work-hardens during the process so it is annealed again by heating to red heat and quenching, just the same as with copper. After about four annealings, the brass has been pushed down hard on the chuck and can be trimmed and polished up with emery. The final job was to rivet it onto the casting.

One more job done on the road to completion!

Steve

What an interesting picture! Do you have any more?

This engine certainly has a British look about it but I don't think it is a Fowler. The cylinder block is unusual in that it appears to have piston valves rather than slide. Also, the front wheels appear very spindly with far too few spokes. I would expect that to be a weakness in a machine which is subjected to heavy side loading whilst working.

I think that it is more likely to be of German manufacture or, in view of the colonial history of Libya, Italian. I know that Ansaldo built steam rollers under licence from Garratts of Leiston so I wonder whether perhaps they also built ploughing engines?

I am going as crew on a steam waggon to a show this weekend. I shall show your picture to some steam real experts and see what they think. I may have better information next week!

Steve

Yes, it certainly got its fair share of hours. Those were the days when I lived with parents and didn't have to do my own cooking and laundry!

Autocar were emphatic about the necessity of regular lubrication and lay down a full programme in the manual. A certain amount of daily attention is required including filling the top-up tank (6 pints) and oiling the spring shackles as well as all linkages and the valve stems. They are lubricated with kerosene. I'm afraid that I don't follow the programme as the lorry gets so little use. Generally, it gets a complete oiling round every time it is due to go out. This is a wonderful lorry but its one real weakness is an inability to keep the oil in the engine whilst running. As it is a twin with both pistons going up and down together, the volume change in the crankcase with every revolution is enormous. The effect of this is that there is an oil mist continually blown out of the breather and the lorry uses one pint of oil every sixteen miles. I thought there was something seriously wrong with it until I read that on the 1914 1000 mile reliability trial, they only achieved 14 miles per pint. On the plus side, the underside is unlikely ever to rust!

It is a wonderful machine to drive and we love it dearly. It has a three-speed box with progressive change ( the gear lever keeps going forward and has no gate) and is tremendously fast. Father clocked me at 26mph on one occasion. At that sort of speed, one learns to smile with ones mouth shut!

Steve