Old Bill

Thank you everyone for all of your thoughts. I am certain that none of them were steel faced and also that the most common arrangement was the three very wide boards. I still can't see how they were put together though, as there is no evidence of any backing boards to lap the joints. If they just T&G and then glued them, how stable would they be? I can see the boards warping all over the place in time. The whole panel is 4' square and only 3/4" thick so it could be a real problem. Plywood would make the job so simple! I am still in two minds.

Steve   🙂

Yes, we are very pleased with them. I will have to look at the brackets shortly but in the mean time, we have been playing with the seat box. We did a trial assembly.

And then dropped the fuel tank into place. This was surprisingly awkward to do by hand but the chain block made life easy.

The hold-down straps were checked for length and the ends riveted on.

And the tank successfully secured.

Then we set the length for the fuel tap rod which I have since made up.

And a trial fit on the chassis.

On either side are foot-boards which slope up to the bulkhead board. We have one salvageable original which Dad has cleaned up and painted.

Dad has had a replacement for the other side cut and folded and this is in the paint shop as well.

We had no bulkhead brackets so Dad had these made up at the same time.

So now we get to the bulkhead and this is where I would value your assistance please. This is what we received with the first batch of bits. It is made of tongue-and-grooved boards with a vertical doubler on the front face to hold it together. The bottom two boards have been on the lorry for some time in the past but the top ones are recent replacements.

The horizontal boards are a puzzle to me as I have found no photos with them oviously showing, except this one. This is a still from a Hitchcock movie called 'The Skin Game'. Note that there are no vertical boards on the front face so how are they held together?

Britich military lorries more commonly show this arrangement with what apears to be a 12" board vertically on each side with another across the top. How are these held together?

But then you get the American lorries which have no visible joints at all.

This one is new from 'The Brill Mfg Co'

Could they have a steel panel on the front? This photo suggests not as the bolts are clearly coach bolts, sinking slightly into the surface.

Just for a bit of variety, this WD charabanc appears to have vertical boards.

Finally, this WD charabanc looks like it has a bulkhead of slightly de-laminating plywood!

The question really is how did they put these bulkheads together and how should I do it? Getting super-wide boards in a stable material these days is going to be very expensive if it is at all possible. I have seen no evidence of boards on the back at 90° tying narrow planks together. Do you think it would be acceptable for me to use a good-quality plywood sheet? There is a metal edge moulding bent around the periphery so you would never see the laminations. We also have precedence in that the Autocar had a plywood board on the inside of the front panel so it was in use then.

At the moment, I can't decide how to do it but I can say that they weren't done only one way. Unfortunately, there isn't a known original to copy.

I should value your opinions!

Steve   🙂

With the lorry making good progress, we have turned our thoughts to the wings. We are fortunate to have two although they have seen better days.

Interestingly, they are both left hand with differing styles of bracket. There must be a story there!

I took the best one and bolted it up to a dummy side member. I then clamped it to the bench for a good measure so that I could draw it.

This was taken from the top of a step ladder so that I could get a square-on pic.

We took personal recommendation for someone to make them up for us and this is the result. He was as good as his word and delivery was under three weeks.

We had to have a trial fit!

Dad has been cleaning them up and has given them a coat of primer to stop the rust getting in.

Now I must resurrect the brackets!

Steve   🙂

Well, Tim has done it again and found yet another gas generator!

I must let him tell the story.

In the mean time, I have pulled it down and given it a bit of a clean up.

Genuine WD!

The bottom was bowed so I think it must have been frosted at some time.

One of the wing nuts was missing.

A rummage in the stores and I had one in stock. What good fortune!

Now to lift the guts out. They look a bit poorly.

I had to get the wing nuts hot to get them to free off.

The carbide basket has had it. However, we don't plan to use the generator so we have just cleaned it up and reassembled it as a project for another day.

It took some wire brushing to get the calcium oxide out.

One of the wing nuts just would not let go. I was afraid of breaking the casting so I cut the rivet off so that I could hold it in the vice and get it really hot.

Success and a new rivet.

Once I had freed everything and given the bits their first clean Tim took the lot away for finish painting.

Another piece ready to fit!

Steve  🙂

The rest of us would like to hear the story, Chris! Is this where you come up with an original picture of it in service?

I have seen some pictures of it out on the road and I must say that it looks super. I am certainly looking forward to seeing it at a show.

Nice job Toby!

Steve   🙂

This shows the exhaust arrangement a bit better:

You learn something new every day, which is what this website is all about.

Thank you chaps!

Steve  🙂

There was another reason for going through the 'stores'. The story goes like this:

Tim has wired the screws holding the half-shafts in.

The next job was to fit the transmission brake drums to the half shafts. Dad had sorted these long ago.

Awkward things to fit but they went on OK.

Dad had sorted the brake bands as reported some time ago and these had to be wangled in.

All went well although there was some damage to paint work. In the left of this shot, you can see the support bracket with its fancy blue spring.

We then got on with the other side but found that the support bracket was too short and wouldn't fit.

Easy. Go and get a spare one from stores. We had a hunt around but could not find one. Tim went through the photos and came up with this one of a chassis we scrapped in 2004. As you can see, there was one there then!

We have been through everywhere but no luck. That was the prompt which made us turn out the caravan! Anyway, the short one would have to do and I have made up a packer for it. On closer inspection, it can be seen that the bracket has been broken off and welded but lost half an inch of length in the process.

We have a solution but it is severely irksome to know that you have something somewhere and not be able to find it!

Steve    🙂

Back to the selectors.

The bronze case has this notch. I eventually worked out that it was to trap a thin cover which had completely rusted away.

I cut one out from a piece of doorskin for a 1911 Daimler car that I happened to have under the bench. The car itself has a new door!

As you have seen before, the selectors are pretty corroded.

After a de-rusting exercise, I felt that the sides could fight again but the running faces needed attention and the detents would need re-cutting. First job was to fill a corrosion hole with weld.

Then I took a closer look at the detents so that I could record what they should be. If you look in the gate, you can see that each gear selection has a different stroke. This could have caught me out!

I machined the top and bottom back until I had got under the rust.

I then attached a piece of plate to the underside and machined it back to make up the lost thickness.

This all looked very promising.

Set the vice over at 30° and re-cut the detents. All quite straightforward.

Now, back to the puzzle of how the tubes were connected to the selectors. I cut the end off flush with the bottom of the hole. You can see what appears to be slg at the bottom of the hole. This was hard and could have been weld metal.

Behind thismaterial, it was filled with lead or tin. Something very soft anyway as I could push my screwdriver into it.

All three were the same. I melted the lead out of the centre one.

I am still none the wiser as to how the joint was made. However, I have to attach new tubes/rods to the selectors so I started by drilling out the lead and facing the end. This was an original drilled hole that I was just cleaning out.

Then I made some plugs which I could push firmly into the tube. I couldn't make them too tight for fear of bursting the corroded tube.

Once driven in, I reamed them for taper pins to secure them.

I plan for the rods to have tapped ends and be screwed on to the plugs but that will be a fitting exercise, the next time I go down to Devon.

Some progress, if a little slow!

Steve    🙂

It was only a guess on my part. I should be very interested to get some suggestions!

Back to the gearshift:

The base casting was rusty but otherwise OK.

A wire brushing soon sorted it.

Similarly for the selector quadrant although this is showing signs of wear but not enough to require any remedial action.

Dad got his paint brush out!

Then a trial fit.

It all went together quite nicely.

You can see here how the interlock mechanism works.

All OK so it can be dismantled for painting.

Right, now the gear lever. The lever and the drop arm are connected by a tube. I suspect they are welded but there is no obvious evidence of how it was done.

The drop-arm was very corroded and worn so a pal built it up with weld for me.

A few minutes with a file soon sorted it.

Interestingly, it has this forge mark. It looks to me like the mark of W&G du Cros but did they make forgings? I should be pleased to hear any suggestions of who it might be.

Lots of corrosion but still enough metal to function if it hadn't been seized.

Drilling out the rivet.

I managed to get it out without touching the sides.

This is the reverse gear pawl, unfortunately corroded enough to prevent it from functioning.

A block silver soldered on the end and some treatment from a file soon remedied it.

Now, getting the knob unstuck was a challenge. I heated it and tapped it gently for some time until it just began to move. I tried rotating it with a pair of pliers and eventually, it began to move more and more. At that point I realised that it was screwed onto the end of the rod and kept turning until it came off. Gentle persistence again!

The rod shows a remarkable level of corrosion. It was 7/32 diameter but the exposed length had reduced to a quite uniform diameter of 1/16" without going through.

The clevis needed replacing so this was carved out of a lump of steel

Reassembly!

New pins for the bottom.

Ready for a trial fit.

Steve   🙂

You are very kind Barry but you haven't pointed out that mine has only twelve teeth whereas the original has thirteen. This was me being lazy as twelve teeth gave me 3° increments which was much easier to mark out!

Steve  🙂

Yes. It does seem an awful lot of effort though!

I am pressing on with the controls. We have two hand brake levers , both of which were bent so they spent some time in the press.

I then chose the best and started pulling it apart.

One pivot pin had been replaced with a bent nail and the other is showing signs of wear.

Proper wear!

Replacements were a nice turning job. 1/4" UNS and 10-32 NC just for a bit of variety.

The pawl is of an interesting arrangement.

The tooth which engages in the quadrant had worn away completely but, as I didn't want to make a whole one from scratch, I repaired it by silver soldering a block back in and then dressing it off.

Of course, I can't harden it now but I don't expect to wear it out. If I do, then I will have to make a new one.

It came out OK anyway.

I gave the toggle a polish as it had suffered by being sand blasted. It came up OK so I fitted the new pivot pins and a new spring and we are ready to go.

The quadrant had seen better days too so I filed out a new one. It would probably be sensible to case harden it.

Gear lever next.

Steve    🙂

I know the feeling, Cel. It is really hard being grown up and sensible!

Steve    😁

Hi Chaps. Sorry for the interlude. This earning a living is rather getting in the way again! Anyway, here are a few more bits and pieces we have been getting up to.

First part of the repair job was to make up a new handbrake shaft to replace the one I had cut. Dad turned it to length on the big lathe and then I put the flats on the end to locate the brake lever.

Add keyway and cross-hole.

Ream out for taper pin

One piece ticked off.

The shift mechanism has detents to keep the selected gear in place and also an interlock mechanism to prevent multiple selections. These are the pins which locate in the detents, a bit the worse for wear.

A wire brushing makes things a bit clearer.

The locking mechanism.

I took the nut off with a cold chisel and now you can see how it works.

The three detent pins are sprung loaded downwards but prevented from falling through by a 16SWG plate which has, unfortunately, seen better days.

One of the pins came out easily, one was difficult and the final one was hell.

I made a press tool by inserting a piece of hardened silver steel into a bit of mild steel bar.

I then pressed it through.

Unfortunately, the bushing moved.

I pressed the bush back but two of the pins were destroyed, which was a nuisance.

A wire brushing of the casting help to show what I had.

Two spoiled pins.

Turn up some new ones! Silver steel this time so I could harden the ends.

The locking plate was a simple filing job.

The interlock lever had corroded badly over the pins so a pal built it up with weld which I dressed back.

The pivot pin had also had it so I made a new one of those too.

You can see how it works now. As the gear lever is pushed across, the interlock plate swivels and uncovers the top of only one pin at a time thus locking the other two into neutral.

A trip to Dad's paint shop and ready for a trial fit!

Steve 🙂

Great to see it and see you back. Looking forward to further progress reports!

Steve  🙂

Thanks Andy. He is a braver man than I! Bearing in mind my inability to see when using the arc, I wouldn't have been able to do it. It is wonderful to see a really skilled man doing things though. My hat is off to him!

Steve   🙂

With the gearbox in, we have been looking at the controls. A rummage through the pile pulled out a totally seized but generally complete change and brake mechanism.

These had been rescued from a chassis at a museum in Ramsey. They were a bit shocked when the first thing I did after purchasing the remains was to cut them up! We had to get them away quickly and cut through the easiest parts to repair.

Selectors with the brake arm nearest to the camera.

The selectors run inside this bronze cover.

Usual process of heat and brutality.

The quadrant had seen better days. Interestingly, it had been fitted back to front with the teeth facing the wrong way!

There should be a thin steel cover over the box but it had totally gone.

The bottom of the handbrake lever is located against two flats rather than a key. Cutting the hole in the handle would have been an interesting exercise.

The corrosion in the brake shaft is quite remarkable.

I couldn't get the gear lever to let go of the centre shaft so, bearing in mind the amount of corrosion, I cut it so that I could fit the bits in to the press.

The press soon made short work of it without damaging anything. It is so nice to have the right tools for the job.

Similarly for getting the shaft out of the change tube.

Time to start repairing bits!

Steve  🙂

7 hours ago, jpsmit said:

I enjoy this thread so much and the fact that you gets things wrong and show the steps is so reassuring to people like me who always seem to need to do everything two and three times. Thanks.

Believe me, I don't show all of them!

I hold the view that anyone can do this if they want to do it enough. Often it is getting enough confidence to make a start and not being afraid to mess it up. If you don't hurt yourself and the part is repairable then that is good enough!

My most memorable mistake was when I specified the wrong chassis frame for a new batch of buses. The salesman asked me what I had specified and I told him. I then asked him how many were there and how far had they got through production. The answer was fifteen and they were all built and lined up along the fence opposite my window. That one took a bit of fast talking!

Steve  🙂

In the mean time and whilst thinking about this one, I have been having a go at the fan. Dad picked the casting for the lower mount up from the foundry.

He set to and machined it.

However, when he put it into position, there was a definite alignment problem. I obviously got my sums wrong somewhere!

As I have tapered the pattern, I felt that I could probably get away with adjusting the casting so that it leaned backwards a bit.

Once I had squared off the top, you would hardly notice, fortunately.

So then it was time to assemble the fan and bearings.

I had measured something else wrongly as well as the thread dind't reach through the nut. Very irksome. I blame it happening because the part I copied was metric and I lost 10mm....

Anyway, I had to skim it and braze an extension into place.

The heat messed up the paint of course!

It worked better after all that. I do wonder how I get these things wrong as I always think that I am being so careful. Oh well.

The fan is screwed into the pulley on a left hand thread. This was a bit stiff so I wrapped a bit of rope around it and used it as a capstan to get a grip of it.

It had to be screwed on until the spring clip holes lined up and I could fit it back into place.

It fits!

Next job is to make the drive pulley which will look like this:

More pattern making!

Steve   🙂

Yes, the corrosion doesn't help. I will fix them by drilling a hole in the end and then brazing a spigot, turned on the end of the rod, into it. I have a fix but I still don't understand how it was done originally.

What you can see in both the top and bottom examples is a loose slug of lead about 1/4" long and the bore of the tube. There is no sign of a soldered joint. It really is a puzzle!

Steve

Ah, the joys of rusted bolts! This one will just clamp the spring into its seat and will stop on the top of the spring without going through. Heat is the key here. Get the casting just glowing red and keep it that way for a while. Put the spanner on the bolt, having released the lock nut first, and try to unscrew it slightly. The joint should crack. Don't try to keep unscrewing but work it back and forth a bit at a time. You will see the rust begin to drop out as a black powder. As you work it, it will move a little bit further each time until it really begins to move. Persistence is the watchword here. Don't forget that the spanner will very quickly become too hot to touch as well!

Good luck!

Steve

PS. Suggest that you get the axle resting on a big block of timber or axle stands so that you don't knock it off the jack!

On 5/29/2023 at 9:39 PM, Gordon_M said:

A simpler answer may be that the holes were to hook in spring ends, to keep the rods in tension and avoid rattle, or something along those lines.

That's a thought. I suspect that the plungers, sprung-loaded into the detents, should hold the selectors firmly enough but it is one to keep in mind.

Steve

On 5/29/2023 at 9:17 PM, Doc said:

I wonder if they were orbitally welded, with the small hole being drilled to relieve pressure.

By "eye of faith" there is a ring discernable on all three parts in the 2nd photograph; this may indicate the position of the weld, or the heat affected zone. Expect corrosion rate to be different to that of the bulk material.

Large drilling might be to match the wall thickness of the selector end to that of the tube.

Your thoughts are matching mine although I am not sure what you mean by 'orbitally welded'. The drilled hole would match the wall thicknesses nicely but there is something down the hole in line with the joint so my screwdriver isn't reaching the bottom. And why a lead plug? I can believe that the holes are pressure releasing but what was the process used that needed them?

It is a most interesting puzzle!

Steve  🤔

On 5/27/2023 at 9:11 PM, radiomike7 said:

Is it part of a device that prevents you moving two selectors at the same time?

There is a mechanism which locks the unused selectors by preventing the pawl from lifting out of the detent in any two of them. I have made a load of bits for it and will post them up soon. I have been hanging on until I have a bit of a story to tell.

Steve