Christian F.

On 5/11/2022 at 9:02 AM, ferretfixer said:

Is that the sound of the death knell I hear in the background?.......

 

....it seems so. !!

You are absolutely right. Some of the names on the list I can recognise from previous years, some names say the sort of goods they sell but many are just names and you dont get a clue. 

Has the general surplus market come to a stop during Covid? The stuff must be out there somewhere, so lets hope someone brings a Ton..... prices cant stay high when nobody is buying. 

9 hours ago, BC312 said:

Been talking to a mate who went to the recent Stoneleigh  show, high prices on deacts £14,000 for a .30cal water cooled MG. Stall wise not that impressive with high prices on a lot of things, not like the usual shows they have, may be a reflection on what will be at the W&P show. I was also told by the grapevine that the re-enactors have to pay for the battle display out of their own pocket about £4,000. Gun hire, blanks and pyro. Hardly encouraging to book there. 

Did I get this right, it's at the W&P show that the re-enactors have to pay for puting on their show themselves? 
I accept the fact, that smaller vehicles pay their own fuel when driving round the arena, but I would expect the heavy and tracked vehicles that put on a show in the arena get some fuel from the organizers, or is that a thing of the past too ?

As living history participants, we have to pay £20 på person this year. All in all, I can accept that. In the entryform you are asked if you need any form of trenches or other fortification. I will have to ask if that has to be paid extra for. 

A quick count of stallholders at W&P says 132 different companies at W&P so there may be a bit more competition pricewise than at Stoneleigh....??
 

In my first post on page 3 I asked if anyone could help justify the price increase to 2½ times the earlier price. Everyone can accept the fact, that facililties and entertainment costs, and are willing to pay, but not any price. 
I have not yet seen any justification or even an explaination for the vast increase in the prices.
When people can't see reason or find information, they tend to make up their own reasons. 

There will and have always been moaners......this time they seem to have somthing to moan about....or do they? 🙂

 

20 hours ago, dgrev said:

I attended Beltring in 1999 and 2000. It was well worth the trip from the other side of the world.

Being that it is now not what it once was, what is the next biggest show and how does it compare

size wise to the Beltring of old?

eg. 25%, 50% etc?

Our group has attended since '96 and its always been well worth the long trip driving 9 hours, sailing 18 hours and then driving 6 hours again..and that was just to get there 🙂 

The dates of the show fit nicely with summer holidays, the length of the show makes it worthwhile to dirve the distance. Many other shows are 2-3 days. Just that little bit too short even when counting set-up and take down. You just manage to settle in before you have to take it all down again.  
Surely Covid hasn't killed off enthusiasm, but feeling  "unapreciated" as some put it, does put you off a bit. Our group has always felt welcome and enjoyed the show and the prolonged stay. If this show goes to ground because of poor management skills and other reasons mentioned on this and other sites, I hope someone picks up the pieces and puts them back together agian in a new and better order.  .... 

   

16 hours ago, ferretfixer said:

Do you think 'They' will listen?.....

I once expressed concerns from Exhibitors about being charged for the show. & stated quite truthfully, 'Without US, you wouldnt have a show'....

His reply was: 'Without ME, you wouldnt have a show'! I felt the arrogance to be repugnant!.....

..a text book example of the reason to work together to achieve a good result for all parties.

Looking at the trade stalls area, there is about 504 stalls. Only about half of theses have been booked. 
Looking at the list of traders, I noticed some of the "usuals" were missing. A call to one of them confirmed the main reason for their absence - too costly. The stall price has also doubled. 

Where are all the positive reasons to attend the show?   Yes, there is music and entertainment, but where are the MV, displays and the arena shows?  As it looks now, evening cruise round the site won't be a long trip.   

Thanks Richard. 

This is the kind of rumor I have heard. You have now confirmed it to be true.  The more that comes to light of this sort of behaviour from the organizers, the worse it gets for the survival of the show..... (War and Peace Survival?)

Where are all the good examples ? Where are all the positive posts about the show ?  (the ones from the exhibitors obviously)

Looks like the old saying : “You can fool all of the people some of time; you can fool some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all the people all the time.” ..is coming to the last sentence for the majority of the exhibitors and the stallholders too. 

UPDATE: 

I have just looked through old e-mails. 
On 6th July 2020 I received a mail about cancelled show in 2020. There was a note in red that the office was closed til 10th of August and to defer your ticket or claim refund you had to "click here".
There was also a note that "for all enquiries remember being NICE does work when speaking or writing to people"
I was not booked in, so I never tried to follow the link, therefore I don't know if or how it worked. 
Of course, if you never recieved the email, even if you were booked in, you would not know of this.

Then on 3rd of March 2021 I get an e-mail stating that the 2021 show is cancelled. In this e-mail, there is a statement: " all tickets and stall derferals remain valid. These will be transferred to the 2022 event automatically for you " 

Good management would have been more forthcoming to those who have experienced trouble with defering the bookings, no matter the reason.  "being NICE" seems to be a one way street in Beltring. 

Rumor has it, that the W&P no longer will accept tickets bought for the 2020 and 2021 shows that were cancelled/postponed. If you want to participate in 2022 show, you must buy a new entry. I don't know if this only applies to public entry tickets or if it also applies to exhibitors, reenactors and stall holders. 

On the W&P homepage in the FAQ this is what is written: 
 

Deferrals that were applied for from 2020/21 are redeemable at the 2022 event.

For those who applied to receive a deferral from the 2020/21 event during the 12 week window – You should receive an email from us regarding your booking during  May/June 2022. This will be sent to the email address that you made your original booking under. If you believe that you have changed your details, please contact us to update your details.

As per the terms of our deferrals, if applied for, your booking will be rolled over to the next available date, if you have applied for a deferral, therefore all deferrals must be redeemed at the 2022 War and Peace Show – it is the individuals’ responsibility to ensure their availability on show dates (26th – 30th July 2022). Please note that deferrals are non-refundable or transferrable.

Please note, only deferrals that were applied for within the application window are redeemable. If you failed to apply for a deferral during the 12 week window, your booking will unfortunately now be void.

Maybe, the people spreading the rumor have forgotten to apply in time? 
It seems a bit "sneaky" to have such a time window. Good management would have contacted the individuals, after all they have their contact details.

  
Does anyone have more exact knowledge on this subject?   

1 hour ago, Trickyh said:

Long time lurker - apologies for 1st post

 

My club decided not to attend W&P this year before the price increases were announced, but for many of the reasons previously mentioned in this post. You could already see the decline between 2018 and 2019 when the organisers stopped paying for the transport of the big stuff.

These days there is too much competition for us to have to pay for the privilege of showing our own vehicles. Overlord. War in the Vale, Tanks Trucks and firepower, Capel etc are all still free to exhibitors and some of them eg: Capel are growing year on year because of it.

 

 

 

To be fair to the W&P, they seem to be picking up the pace on their homepage. An adjustment or two in the fee department would be warmly welcomed.... as would transport of special vehicles. 
Coming from abroad, we have to plan and book ferries etc. months ahead or chance it. This is why we prefer the longer duration shows - it has to be worth the trip (and all the expenses). Driving for 2-3 days to and from a show in your military vehicle is prone to "surprises" along the way.
It would be a loooong trip back home if the show turns out to be a "dud".
I still hope the show gets back on track, but so close to our ultimate deadline, things are not looking that good for us to come as a group.   
 

51 minutes ago, snowdrop358 said:

I think that a big part of the problem is that the management / PR team can't or won't engage with the very people it's relying on. For example, Capel came in for some criticism for banning any German WW2 representations. Instead of hiding and turning off comments, they actively engaged and explained why they had taken the decisions that they had. I don't go to Capel, nor do I reenact but I appreciated the fact that there was an open discussion about it.  I would suggest that W&P could really do with some positive PR at this point, all that's required is to engage and be honest, surely? 

I have just visited the W&P homepage. A few presses on F5 and behold, there was an update on the Spitfire stage program (no specific info but it seems someone is working on it)  and a couple of listings on the traders list. Lets see what else turns up....
Just hope it's not too little too late. 
People have mentioned the heyday..in the said heyday, information and temptation came in a constant flow on their site and directly to those of us who had participated in earlier shows. 
The publics attitude towards the show is a direct product of the impressions the show gives us.  "it has always been good" doesn't cut it this time.due to high prices and low information.

More promotion please before we loose interest in a show we are struggling to find good reasons to atend.

Maybe I'm just impatient, but there is not much news on the W&P homepage. Used to be daily updates.
I tried to check the "terms and conditions" post listed in the foot bar.  It seems to be professional enough (long and detailed as an American car producer - no responsebility for anything). 
When a professional  company - Blosville Ltd. - takes on that sort of show, one should expect a greater interest and effort in makeing the investment worthwhile. I would like to think the organzers are serious.
A 5 day show used to be a holiday for most participants and a great chance to greet old friends and make new ones. 
Maybe a private company without representatives of the enthusiasts that make up the show is not the best way to organize such an event? 
The Hop Farm is the perfect setting, and we all accept and respect the fact that facilities have to be paid for. I just haven't heard the justification for the big rise in participant fee. 
2020 the price was  £50  two years later the price has more than doubled to £125. and no group discounts. Covid 19 ?
I wonder, if the clubs were involved or consulted, would there be a greater understanding and respect for the conditions for the show? 
As always, social media (FB etc.) tends to go astray in personal views an not enough factual news. Have seen many "discussions" on the subject in many places, but very little involvement from the organizers to clarify /  justify the issues. 
I don't want to base my views and decisons on rumours, so more facts and information please. W&P where are you?  
 

Maybe if the W&P show posted  their news on their homepage, we would not have to look and ask so much in other places to get  the information we seek. 
I hope the show comes back to its former glory, but I doubt many want to sign up to something they can't even see a program for yet.  ...the program on the homepage is from 2018.
 

One would have thought, that the organiseres would be keen to get as much information on the site as soon as possible. 
That does not seem to be the case.  I wanted to see the traders list, but that is not viewable even though there are stalls that are sold. 
Does anyone have a contact to the organizers who could give them a hint, that their reputation is in need of some positive action from their side.  
I think we are all interested in getting "the good old show" back together again, but help and understanding fades away if you don't ask for it. 
 

Our group has attended since 1996
When you look at it the other way round, it seems different.
£.125 for 2 people and camping for 5 days is not that bad, £12.5 a day per person including free entertainment and facilities. Kids under age 15 go free. 
Could you go camping for that price anywhere else?  Have the prices gone up so much during the Covid period that £125 is "reasonable" I don't know. 
I see there are many vacant spaces in the stalls area - not a good sign or are traders hesitating and waiting on each other?  Foriegn traders have had all sorts of import/export problems put on them, so what is stopping the UK traders?  
Fuel prices also puts a stopper to many visitors, especially us that were prepared to drive 2 thousand kilometres in our Jeeps and trucks to take part. But that can't be blamed on the show organizers.
Sad there is no info under "what is on" unless the bands name is "pleas check back later"
Our group is still trying to find the means of getting to the show. 
Yes, it is the exhibitors that make up the show, is there no dialog between the show and the clubs? 
Hope people here can supply good info based on fact, not just on opinions. 🙂