welbike

And another one!  Indian Powerplus on the left, and P&M on the right.

Lex

P&M's were also delivered to Russia, just found this while looking through my files.

Cheers,

Lex

Just got this one from FB, 3 P&M's with a Crossley in the background. What could the lettering have read? Presumably the registration number?
 

Cheers, 
 

Lex 

Monty, I will look at my 500+ pictures after Normandy, I am sure I have some that show a handpainted M on the tank, but no time for it now. But if you want to go with a transfer, use the bottom one in Ron's post, that would be safest. (picture added)

Cheers,

Lex

Well, I never said they never had anything on the tank after 1942, but it's very difficult to see what exactly was used. Your picture is in Amsterdam, I have better resolution somewhere, but got to go and do some actual work on my Matchless, instead of writing about them!  

Cheers,

Lex

Sorry Ron, but I do disagree with you somewhat, I don't know where Robert (RIP) got this info from, but it is not correct, I did research this a bit, and you can check for yourself on the Jampot DK archive; AJS and Matchless download page (jampot.dk)

1937 still had the lone M metal badges, and 1938 was the first year with the winged <M> badges, and even the cheapest 250cc model had the metal badges, furthermore there are no winged M transfers listed anywhere in the G3L parts lists, check Simon's parts database here: matchless.vercel.app/?part_name=transfer  No tank transfers listed other than the tanktop one, of which I made the drawings for, so Robert could make them.

But now it gets interesting, checking the 1946 parts list for the transfers here: S56 1946 =M= G3L G80.pdf (jampot.dk)

I find the following number, 42-G3L-T57-T, and that suggests there was a transfer in 1942, when the metal badges were discontinued, but I think they were deleted very quickly, maybe that is what we see on the wartime pictures? and then as the bottom one in your post, the top one is postwar, I'm pretty sure of that.

But I think a lot of them were painted on by the troops themselves also, or in the factory, like the b/w picture below, I believe this is a test model, for the Blue or Green un's editors, hence the front number plate, and the painted on winged <M> (notice the right hand wing is much bigger), maybe it was a government thing that it was compulsory to have the makers name on the tank of civvy used bikes? (it was so in Holland for the longest time)

More research needed! 

Lex

Jan , have edited the number, my keyboard is not working properly! The petrol tank could have been changed at some part in it's immediate postwar life of course.

Ron there were no prewar M transfers as far as I know, only metal badges, first the sole M, and later the additional wings, they must have still had thousands in stock to have manufactured the loose wings!! 

There are of course tanks with transfers, but they are all postwar manufactured, as these bikes soldiered on until the 60's. see picture.

Cheers,

Lex

naamloos.bmp

Regarding frame number 48273 that is from contract S1050 (the one after C14499), from late 1942, so no badges were fitted on this contract.

The C number on the tank is listed as C5257374, but according to other numbers in the series this should be C5255673 so who knows what happened here.

The bike was released from the Army on 11-11-1960, at Bowhouse, last user I cannot read.

Postwar ERM number was 38ZB30, info on Key Card No. 439a. (scan of this card with appx. 15 bikes on it can be purchased from me for 20 euro's)

See below sample scan of a Key Card, and a period picture of the same contract. (and yes, it has the badges! Parts lists cannot be trusted I guess!!!)

Cheers,

Lex

Nobody has them, and repro's aren't made anymore, for a nice set be prepared to pay up to 500-600 euro's. (last G3WO complete tank, with panel and instruments 3500 was asked!!)

But I would check your petrol tank first, if it has the screw bosses for the badges, sometimes bondo'd over, but looking inside the filler, they can be seen, if present at all.

Lex

I'll check in a minute about the C number, the metal winged <M> was only ever on early G3L's and then the loose wing variety, total width of 5 5/16" or 150.8mm. (postwar one piece badges are smaller) transfers were never issued until postwar civilian production, but in some instances the winged <M> was painted on the tank in white or silver.

Cheers,

Lex

Nice articles Jan!  It's known that when the US entered the war, there was not enough equipment to send overseas, so it was locally procured, like the French 75mm. guns etc. etc.

Cheers,

Lex

And the sale, pictures from the internet, as I was trying to locate my stolen DKW engine!

Cheers,

Lex

Here some pictures from the viewing day, I also managed to buy the 2 6Pdr. wheels, but not the 75mm. Pack Howitzer, that is what I actually came for, as it was withdrawn from the sale, so I bought the 125 DKW, best buy of the sale there, as they are extremely expensive now! Still have it ofcourse.

Lex

Only see this topic now,  as I searched for Alain's name, as there was talk on a FB page, and they had the whole story wrong about the Vimoutiers Tiger,  that the village wanted to save it, but they wanted it gone, and Alain saved it, seems it's already forgotten, so I set that straight! 

Never met Alain personally, but knew of several people who did, and I went to the sale, that was the worst auction I have ever been to, so much was stolen at the viewing day already, as the auctioneers thought there would only be a handful of people, but about 500 turned up, and it was a mess, the following day, when the sale was held, there were people fighting to get in the way too small room, and it was terrible, I managed to buy a DKW RT125, but the engine was stolen. 

Was a weird experience! below some pictures.

R.I.P. Alain Roudaix.

Cheers, Lex

Here an article about it, and the replica.

Lex

Adrian, yes, have the series, and someone even made a replica!

It was more like for airfield defense and such, not to cover huge distances. The bike is a Triumph 3 SW. (or 5SW)

Cheers,

Lex

I think he found one Neil.

Cheers,

Lex

I have a list of early WD machines from Jan, but the numbers are lower (the first 20 delivered) than 3267, so best for him to comment.

3267 falls between the first and second contract.

Lex

Ok, yes, best to remove it, but not sure if they used steel drive rivets, or soft aluminium ones?  best be careful there. 

I would, not sand the plate, but just put it in a vinegar bath, that's the least corrosive method I think, just eats the rust.

The yellow cloth HT lead is surely postwar, just as the cap! the Lodge caps are getting very hard to find now!

Cheers, Lex

I don't think many had the inspectors stamp Ron, mine doesn't.

Lex

So, Jan, and was this only used on replacement engine, this plate? as I have seen many without.

Cheers,

Lex

Yes, I did say similar, have to check what exactly it says on the Flea plate, there seems to be a number stamped??

Lex

Nice stuff Jan and Ron!  Jerry, the metal plates are etched, and very shallow, so be careful. Similar plates were fitted to the James ML's.

The NOS engine was for sale at the War and Peace Show, many moons ago, sadly I had not enough money to buy it.

Cheers,

Lex

On 11/15/2022 at 8:36 PM, Didier Belgium said:

in 2007 I bought a Diamond T 980 with closed cabin from Army Cars Holland,it was the second last Diamond T 980-981 they had and the last of the Italien army  lot (lot number 279 ),The last Diamond T was a 981 with open cabin from the Belgium army and was sold to Eddy Vianne from Belgium.This man has several WWII military vehicles .  When I was there the Army Cars clerk showed me a large warehouse with all Diamond T parts  all new;  diffrerent rear axles in wooden crates,front axles,steering boxes ,drive axles,brake drums,transmission housings,water pumps,all service parts for the engine, all new and coming from yhe Italian army their full stock;wheels,springs,steering rods,engine blocks, the man himself gave me a list with some prices,: front axle complete 250 euros,rear axle complete 350 euros,steering box 125 euros,radiator 375 euros , foot switch to start the engine 65 euros, overhaul kit for water pump 100 euros, the ballast blocks of 25 kilos 7.5 euros each,(at that time the price of scrap iron was higher than the price of the ballast blocks).  Now Army Cars no longer exists and I have inquired where all those parts have gone; it seems that everything has gone to the scrap yard......which is a pity

Didier

Only see this now,  but I don't think those parts were scrapped, when A.C. closed up, there was a big sale, and a lot of people bought a lot of parts!  Mr. De Groot from A.C. bought loads of parts from the Belgium dealer Chris Muys in the 90's, and also around that time I bought all the small Diamond parts from the Italian Army, about 4 tons, all in wooden rectangular grey boxes, and took what I needed, and sold it on to Jaap Rietveld, as far as I know he still has a lot of that lot.

Lex

14 hours ago, Jerryjeeprichard said:

Lex, 

 

Looks like some good projects pulling together. Do you have engines for them? 

Jerry, yes, one of them is finished now, and sold, the other 2 I'm still building the engines for, but do have them with correct numbers, engines and parts are quite easy. But MKI Welbike cycle parts are very, very difficult, due to the low amount of them being made, (1200 pieces) and then some were retrofitted to MKII's by the factory.