recymech66

Perhaps after this winter, the point may be made to councils and others. We know they are doing there best, despite all those knocking them, they are out there working to keep the roads clear, but help from the community would ease the situation.

 

As for saying "other countries cope better than us", not so sure after seeing news bulletins from USA and talking to lorry drivers who work right across Europe.

Yes I have to agree, not all countries fair better than the UK far from it, I stayed over here as usual this year but lots of friends who have made the Xmas journey back to the UK have said how bad it was driving through Holland, Belgium normally a 5 to 6 hour drive from here to Calais was taking people in excess of 10 to 12 hours because of the conditions. You only have to see the video's (on here and youtube) of how bad conditions are in the US, I'm not saying Germany is perfect and travelling times are worse but the point is the traffic is still moving.

I've just been into the town here and seen a load of farmers in tractors with buckets fitted digging out entrances to shops, car parks and business's, not sure of the legalities/liabilities if any but just an example of the community spirit displayed. Maybe we could learn a thing or two.

That is a good idea, but........last year councils were warning people not to clear roads and paths in front of their properties because they would be liable for any injuries or accidents. We always used to do this outside home.

 

I recently heard that farmers who wanted to sub-contract to County Councils to snow plough, had to have a massive liability insurance, use white diesel and other stipulations before they could get a contract. Perhaps it is the authorites who should sort themselves out firstly.

Proves my point splendidly how our little Island has it's priorities all wrong, it's all about money and not about people helping themselves and each other.

Clearing paths and private drives is one thing but clearing miles of public roads is something else I would say

As Cosrec said if people were made to be responsible for their own areas outside their homes and places of work then the councils could be left to get on with "miles of public roads" it's not rocket science just a little common sense, people need to help themselves and each other, community spirit and all that good stuff.

Ruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuunnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.

Basically once snow has turned into packed ice forget it steel or rubber aint going to grip if the guys who are willing to spend 2 hours pushing and shoving and towing with tractors to get a truck out had spent 15 min with a bucket on clearing road when it was soft snow you would have had no problems. I know this will rub people up the wrong way but i think if every body did their little bit when we have a bit of bad weather instead of standing back and saying the councils arnt doing their job life would be a lot easier. Taking it back to basics hows about if every body was responsible for any footpaths boardering thier property and any part of the road they parked their car on the road on estates say how much easier would it be one and all leaving councils to concentrate on the main routes

Totally agree, here in Germany it's the law you have to clear snow from all paths, access roads adjoining your property as soon as reasonably possible, if anybody slips and injures themselves due to somebody not clearing the snow then the occupant will be liable.

Just another reason to add to my earlier post about winter tyres how the snow and bad weather doesn't stop everyday life from happening in Germany.

To many people in UK are content with just sitting back and leaving it up to somebody else and when it doesn't happen they blame everybody else.

It's idle attitudes like this why our country is in the state it is.

Just heard that Airfix have announced their new models to come out during 2011. For the Land Rover enthusiasts, there is to be a twin pack containing a WMIK and a Snatch, both in 1:48 scale. Also a Cromwell tank in 1:76 scale, with the wading attachments to rear of engine deck.

 

Just recently released is a twin pack containing a Bedford QLD Cargo and QLT Troop Carrier. Airfix actually used my QL for some of their CAD drawings.

 

Not built any kits for years now, but waiting for the QL ones to arrive.

At least they'll be more affordable than Accurate Armour, even though AA can't be beaten on quality.

That raises a question that I was going to ask anyway. Just how good (or otherwise) is a tracked vehicle on ice and snow - better or worse than a 4x4? Logic suggests that on sheet ice it would just slide around, but for patchy coverage there should be some grip somewhere along the track length provided you can keep it pointed in the right direction. I'd appreciate advice from anyone who's actually tried it!

 

Andy

I've done quite a few winter tours Bosnia, Kosovo etc were I've carried out quite a lot of towing of tracked vehicles using anything from CVRT Samson, Warrior and Crarrv. Towing up inclines with tracked vehicles on sheet ice can be a nightmare with the tracks spinning and losing traction, many a time I've had to disconnect then winch the towed vehicle up a hill then reconnect and attempt to pull away.

Towing downhill can be very hazardous if you lose traction, you just end up being a very heavy sledge with no control over your vehicle.

Towing cars out would be no problem you could do that on tickover, however heavier vehicles, trucks etc will be a problem, not all the time but if the conditions are bad enough well!!

My choice would be a heavy wheeled vehicle with a set of snow chains, now that vehicle will go anywere in the snow and ice.

Edited to add: (Video borrowed from the Snow thread) if this can happen to cars then imagine what 14 Tonne of 432 would be like in the same situation

You can have the best vehcile with the best tyres, but if the drivers crap.......

A fair point but winter tyres give even crap drivers a fighting chance. Make fitting winter tyres the law and drivers wouldn't have half the dramas they have now.

Isn't it about time the UK government changed the law? here in Germany we have to have winter tyres fitted, beore Nov 26th it was optional but most Germans had them anyway, I was annoyed at first having to buy another set of tyres for a brand new car and have always managed, however we are having a bad winter this year and the tyres are working superbly, you don't see many cars stuck and towns coming to a complete standstill in Germany.

Contraversial maybe, does it work? damn right it does.

Will be visiting the Deutsche Panzer Museum in Munster which is just up the road from me here in Germany.

Just won this on Ebay, nice bit of Scammell history, eight pages, a nice article on desert tank recovery and some good pics, surprised I was the only bidder, are they very common?

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]38725[/ATTACH]

That's a nice thing, I'd have bid against you if I had seen it;)

Holdings of the Challenger 2 (CR2) Main Battle Tank are to be reduced by approximately 40%. With current holdings estimated to be 345 the proposed reduction will bring the operational fleet down to just over 200 CR2’s.

AS90 Armoured Artillery Vehicles are to be reduced by approximately 35%. Current holdings of AS90 are estimated to be 134 and will be reduced to 87 under the terms of SDSR.

AS90 conducted fire missions into Basra on Op Telic and subsequently into the Basra region on later Telics, AS90 is not currently deployed on Op Herrick in Afghanistan.

Wish we'd have been given this version with the underlift, slightly better than our's I think.

From the Rheinmetal defence website,

New MAN heavy tactical recovery vehicle combines high off-road mobility and heavy-duty recovery capabilities

Rheinmetall MAN Military Vehicles GmbH's new MAN heavy tactical recovery vehicle (HTRV) is debuting at Eurosatory 2010 in Paris.

Built on a tried-and-tested SX45 8x8 welded closed-box chassis and designed for maximum off-road mobility, the HTRV is able to recover heavy vehicles in suspended as well as supported (underlift) tow mode. Fully air-conditioned, the HTRV features level 3/3b mine protection, ensuring a high degree of battlefield survivability.

The new HTRV is the latest member in a long line of 6x6 and 8x8 recovery vehicles. The German Bundeswehr, US Army and the armed forces of many other nations are increasingly opting for armoured 8x8 recovery vehicles for use in deployed operations.

Tactical vehicles weigh more today as a result of heavier armour and other special features and equipment. This explains the need for a new generation of high-performance recovery vehicles that can keep up with armoured formations and move in quickly, safely and efficiently to recover stricken vehicles in battlefield conditions.

Following an internal selection process, Miller Industries Towing Equipment Inc. of Ooltewah, Tennessee in the United Sates was invited to take part in a joint venture project. The company has a longstanding history of supplying high-quality equipment to industry and government.

Miller's unique recovery boom is a very versatile recovery system. It features a crane with a lifting capability of up to 20 tons, two independent winches for righting vehicles and a direct winch enabling 360° operations around the recovery vehicle. Miller also offers worldwide service and EU-based engineering through Boniface Engineering Ltd in the UK.

Modern armies need recovery vehicles that are able to lift and tow vehicles with a gross vehicle weight of up to 40 tons. The ability to unload and winch heavy containers weighing up to 50 tons from disabled vehicles is equally important.

In the age of asymmetric warfare, improvised explosive devices and suicide bombers pose new threats to military vehicles. To meet these the MAN heavy tactical recovery vehicle provides level 2/2b - 3/3b protection for the crew.

Other features include large-capacity stowage bins for additional equipment; the ability to operate at temperatures ranging from +49°C to -35°C (recovery module) and -46°C (chassis); full EMI/EMC compliance; and assured mobility in rough off-road conditions. Moreover, the HTRV has a maximum fording depth of 1,500 mm in salt and fresh water. The vehicle is NBC protected and equipped with a cab-mounted weapon station.

Rheinmetall MAN Military Vehicles GmbH can respond flexibly to new customer requirements, providing various options such as EKA (i.e. for the British Army) and the EMPL system, which has been successfully tested and deployed by different European armies.

ContactRheinmetall AG

Corporate Sector Defence

Press and Information

Oliver Hoffmann

Rheinmetall Platz 1

40476 Düsseldorf

Germany

Phone: +49 211 473-4748

Fax: +49 211 473-4157

Heres one i know reccymec 66 was interested in

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]37498[/ATTACH]

 

This a MAN fitted with commercially available recovery equipment built here in the UK and just starting trials abroad

Cheers Cosrec, anymore:D

Yes of course it is and the missing fuel tank and i'm sure there is supposed to be an outrigger for the crane about half way down the side too all just "cosmetic"

Once parts are in do you really think it's a massive job to replace axle, fuel tank and outrigger? (and a few bins) If REME mechanics can get vehicles blown up by IEDs in Afghan back on the road and motoring I'm sure this job isn't so bad.

2nd axle looks like its torn off on one side, is that just cosmetic ?

Well seeing as I aint there, I was going off the photos and what mates had said, calm down.

Yowser! do you see how much rubber he laid down trying to get that all stopped?

 

Bet he wont make it to full screw in the next 12 months!

 

Poor bugger, glad no loss of life or injury except to ego ( I presume )

 

Im guessing someone will make the decision as to whether it gets CAST or rebuilt. My money will be a rebuild, if not see it at Withams in a few months.

 

Thoughts

 

R

All looks cosmetic, you wont be seeing any of these at Withams any time soon

Are we right in thinking that tank did the dirty deed? Was it perhaps being towed and somehow overtook the M.A.N.? (but no sign of A frame), or maybe the two met at a junction?

MAN SVR was stationary, Tank was being towed by a CRARRV which lost traction and the blade made contact with the SVR.

Can you say where and when? I followed one of those last Friday near Ascot Berk's

South of UK a few day's ago.

This will make a few people weep.

In haste trying to get boring bits out of way i forgot one very import thing. First thing to check on any roll over is are the brakes on. If the vehicle moves as it comes over the sidewalls of the tyres lose grip and it will crash back to the floor again. In extreme circumstances it can move that far it will tip the recovery vehicle over. Very good vidieo on Utube showing this happening.

Another little fact dont rely on transmission brake to hold vehicle they dont hold anything when set of wheels are off the floor If need be some good timbers back and front of tyres will do the job. Even on level ground you can be inadvertantly be making the vehicle tend to roll back or forth by not being exactly lined up with CG

During the initial part of the recovery it takes very little to dislodge grip on tyres. And i have had an occasion when the draught suction from a passing fridge lorry dropped one back down.

Nice one Cosrec keep it coming.

That last picture of the Saxon hull wouldn't be a great moral booster for troops still having to use them on ops

They aren't used anymore mate, all been backloaded.:-D

The Patrol versions were deployed to one of the "sand box" theatres of operation recently weren't they, in an armoured ambulance role?

 

I think that as the previous poster mentioned they were for the most part all over green, but we are likely to see pictures of an all over pink to prove the rule i'm sure!

 

R

Yes your correct, here's a couple that were backloaded to UK.

My apolagies for taking so long in uploading this pic recymech66, this Foden is on the cast park in Canada [ATTACH=CONFIG]36546[/ATTACH]

Cheers for posting, shame they are left to rot. mine is still parked opposite my hanger slowly getting worse, it's going to be carted off somewhere soon as it's cast.

As you quite rightly state recovery techniques vary between army and civilian life i think this is more to do with eqipment used then any thing else. Army eqipment is designed for straight forward lifting or straight winching out the back for the most part. Civilian eqipment is designed on a much more budget design but can do elevated winching with a twin winch system. But in general all recovery jobs are the same the whole world over. A successful out come will usually end with some compromise somewhere and be dependant on the knowledge of the operator. Will try and put some posts on for side over sides

Cheers Cosrec,

Side over side techniques are probably still very similar but you obviously have to contend with lack of space i.e on motorways etc were as Miliary side over sides tend to happen on exercise areas, open spaces, desert etc, were we can get 90 deg side on with winch and crane or 2 recovery vehicles with 1 to provide a check tackle as it comes over.