Gordon_M

Hi Gordon,

 

Looks like a nice unusual project! what carb does it have? Carter DTB?

 

Regards,

Matt.

Hi Matt,

I had a specific look at the carb today while I was tinkering. It's a Carter E7 T2, basically a Carter made specifically for the Dodge Power Wagon and Dodge trucks around 2 ton, 1953 to 1960.

Gordon

It's interesting to see the WLF hidden in that bunch. I wonder if it was there for a specific lifting purpose, like a higher reach or heavier lift for particular jobs?

Looks like there is quite a nice truck under all the junk?

Maybe it's just a decimal place wrong on the price too.

It's a thought, but if it was used in blowing power snow you'd at least need an eaircleaner to keep the snow out the carb.

It does seem to have what I would describe as standard US Army equipment. Towing points front and rear that look like they would mount jeep pintle hooks ( too small for standard Dodge ones, and these ones are four bolt so not M7 type which are two bolt ) There is a bracket which goes over the radiator top frame which has the marks on it where two standard blackout pod lights have been removed, but only mounting for one taillight on the left rear roof corner ( I'd have expected standard lights - one on each side )

As I said, I expect the Parts List will answer a lot of questions. I think the headlights would be standard jeep or Dodge pods - Parts List will tell me which. Hopefully it will also list the instruments, but I'd guess they would be standard round 2" oil pressure, water temperature, fuel, and ammeter, plus speedo and the rotating type of blackout switch.

An uninteresting colletion of bits, but still.

Top is an engine side panel in steel, the rectangular plate goes on what I thought was a dashboard location, the bent metal bracket sits across the top of the radiator and takes two standard blackout pod lights, plus the little roller hooks up to a handle in the cab to raise or lower the radiator top cover.

The rectangular panel to the left, with the cutout in it, is Aluminium. It has the same silver paint as the other engine panels and the same Dzus-type fasteners, just haven't figured out where it fits yet.

Hi Gordon,

 

Looks like a nice unusual project! what carb does it have? Carter DTB?

 

Regards,

Matt.

Hi Matt,

Actually I have no idea - I assumed it was just the equivalent Dodge civilian carb, haven't looked at the model number. It is visually identical to a couple of other Dodge carbs kicking around the shop somewhere.

I had a look round the engine bay to see what was what, and made a few notes. The engine bay is sort of tall and thin, so the carb on there is fine - would be no room for either of the conventional T214 carbs because of the width they take up. No clue as to air cleaner mount position.

Engine accessories are all pretty much standard for a 1944 T214, with the exception of the electric sender for the oil pressure gauge. Starter has been the foot pedal type but now broken, and it has a white factory plate on it and not the green I'd expect. ( Dodgers will know that it is red plates for 6 volt electrics and green for 12 volt - never seen white )

Exhaust stub points at the right hand track frame so there would have been a silencer box there somewhere. I'm not sure about that bracket sticking up next to the exhaust outlet - it hasn't been burned or heat marked, and isn't really strong enough to mount an exhaust. It would be a bit of an odd place to mount a serial plate though - I'd think it was an odd location for an aircleaner too, but maybe an Oakes unit like the jeep?

I see the radiator hoses have been replaced with flexibles, and the combination of the factory-type rivetting on the roof hatch blank,

replaced gearbox, and electric oil sender ( just visible behind the oil filter return hose to the block in one of these images ) is pointing me at a unit that was made for Uncle Sam but possibly bought back for a factory rework and sell on to the civilian market - no evidence though.

I even managed to find the dash plate, which is no help. The space in front of the driver is filled by a rectangular plate, which I found loose in the vehicle. Holes for mounting and paint confirm it is original, but there's no sign of any instrument or control holes, fixtures, fitting, welding, or where they had been removed.

I know this thing would have a full set of instruments, just not where they would be mounted. I noted the speedo drive outlet on the gearbox has a small gear adapter on it too, but no routing for cable, or where it would be mounted.

Ah well. Dennis Spence at Portrayal Press doesn't have a manual on file, but he does have a Parts List which he is copying for me. If it has images, so much the better, but even if it doesn't the list of parts and numbers will tell me what bits I need to put on - just not where they go ....

Kepe Dodging

been tinkering with the new toy today and uncovered a few things.

Just in front of the cab is a space and hatch designed to take the same engine heater flue as you find on the contemporary M7 Snow Tractor, as seen in the pics.

There are twin fuel tanks with isolation taps, but only the right hand tank had a gauge in it. Presumably in normal use both isolators would be open, both tanks on line, and the fuel would find its own level, which would be reflected on the guage.

There's a large rectangular rivetted section in the centre of the roof panel, looks like there has been a hatch, or provision for one, off the assembly line.

Just like the Weasel, the driver had the ability to open or close a hatch on the radiator inlet duct from the drivers seat position. I'd guess it was normally shut for warm-up and bad weather / deep powder snow operation, but could be opened remotely if the engine temperature got hotter than it should be.

The engine, transmission, and engine compartment are Dodge silver, and the outside of the cab has obviously been white originally, but a lot of the door surrounds, battery box cover, and other panelling has olive drab on it.

Oil pressure gauge output at the block has an electric sender unit in place of the normal piping to the gauge. Wouldn't have been reading very high as when I pulled the dipstick it was absolutely bone dry, not even a sign of oil on it. The sump looks intact, and all the oil lines and filter connections are OK, so I'm hoping it has just dripped out of the sump over the last half century when it has been stood.

Conversely the radiator and cooling system are full.

Today's most puzzling discovery is the date info. I'd already noted the T214 engine casting date as 7-11 and the head as 6-17, and I assumed they referred to 1944 production as that is when all the T-36s were supposed to have been made ( Crismon ) However on checking the transmission I found it is dated 6-5-43, so I'm now assuming the whole vehicle is exactly a year older than I thought, being made mid-43. There's no way that transmission has been out of there in the last half century, and it is painted into a unit with bellhousing, block, and head.

Added later - well I went and checked the Build Card listing for T214 numbers and dates. I found T214-175076 dated April 6th 1944, and T214-192914 dated August 1st 1944, and the T-36 engine is T214-191328, so July '44 it is. Must have had a transmission swap back in the day and got a '43 transmission, as there's no way a transmission would be sitting around for a year during a war.

Morning Robin.

I can't help comparing it with my Sno-cat, admittedly made about nine years later. Both use the Dodge six and four speed as motive power, both are about the same size and were built in the same area of the world.

The Sno-Cat has full suspension, wagon steer, articulated pontoons with huge attack angles, and excellent ground clearance.

The T-36, with the same horsepower, has no suspension, limited rocker travel on the bottom bogies, no articulation between the track frames, several inches ground clearance, and the tracks were made from conveyor belt which had metal drive lugs bolted through inside and huge metal grousers bolted outside. I have a shot somewhere of a new T-36 which has torn off several grousers just turning on a hard surface.

Sometimes these things are SO useless they don't get beyond the first production batch - as in this instance - and it is instructive to have one because they are so terrible. It's like the Sinclair C5 of snow transport, and certainly needed the winch hidden under the drivers seat.

Just had my new toy delivered. These came with WC series T214 engines and transmissions, the casting codes on the engine are June / July 1944.

I have a couple of shots of it with a previous owner around 2004, somewhere in northern California or southern Oregon I think, parked next to what I think is a green and yellow PW;

I'd like to get in touch with them as it may be that they have, or know how to find, the dash panel with the all-important serial plate on.

Anyone ever run across one of these before? literature, info, reports?

gordon(at)dodge.org.uk

Not my specialist subject, though I do run across it now and again.

As a factory unit it will have been properly designed and tested when new, but to keep it valid it needs redone periodically.

If it was British and old spec it would be done to BS 7072, which includes regular visual examinations, and periodic re-test to factor above Safe Working Load limit followed by magnetic particle examination of the equipment joints for cracking. You'd probably be into replacement or retest of steel ropes / shackles, etc, etc.

Best not go there.

Here's another useful piece of advice on smoke discharger legality, this time from ACPO:

 

[ATTACH]44998[/ATTACH]

 

Andy

That's amazingly sensible - not something I associate with the powers-that-be, but well done him for thinking it through and signing his name to it.

Gordon

Bin it.

Replace it with a Panasonic Lumix, any of them that have a Leica lens ( there's a dozen different models, not all have Leica )

Don't spend more than £150 in case she does it again, and tell her she is the official starting handle turner for a Dennis....

Army Air Force stuff.

The MEATBALL, or red circle in the centre, was removed in early '42 I think because of fears it could be confused with the Japanese rising sun in the Pacific theatre.

It was seldom seem on European stuff, as most of that was imported and marked as Army Air Force after the date of change.

Gordon

Gordon

I'd agree with anything over 60, and I'd also agree that I'd be more interested in them being within 10% of each other than the actual values.

Gordon

Yes, pity about the circumstances.

A few more photos and details would pin this down further. It would make a usable truck, back body might be a problem.

Gordon

Could this or that, Tony....

I can see 3/4 ton WC wheels, and what looks like a full set of WC 1/2 ton military hard cab and front end metal. Back body is home made I think.

Two real possibilities. Half ton military hard cab with 3/4 ton wheels, or maybe even a 3/4 ton WC chassis and axles with a 1/2 ton WC cab dropped on. The size of the front springs suggest 1/2 ton WC rather than 3/4, and the fit of the front metal suggests a military half ton hard cab, rather than civilian cab or later Power Wagon version. That said the wheelbase suggests 3/4 ton ....

That's about all that can be deduced from the pic.

Not what you are thinking of, I'm sure, but in the 1990's we had an amphib event in that part of Italy and I know the late Jack Tomlin of Tooele Ordnance took his DUKW there and sailed down the Grand Canal, that sort of area. Dont suppose even Jack would drive into the square, but it is the sort of thing he might have done.

Gordon

and to think it arrived there almost one piece at a time, plus a fair percentage made from raw.....

It's a pity the radiator castings couldn't have been built up, but I suppose you can only do so much before it's cheaper / easier just to make new.

Good luck with the run.

Gordon

Tim and crew, Well Done!!:clap::clap:

 

I remember well the first start-up and drive of my Albion 33 years ago. I still get a great thrill every time I drive her. We had her out in March for the Corowa Swim-In.

Regards Rick.

Rick, could you please post a larger version of that image, or tell us where we could download one?

Gordon

It'll look better soon, I'm sure. Actually that's a nice truck, early front, winch model .....

What snippets can I add ? I prefer the banjo to split axles, and do remember that there are differences in the transfer case between split and banjo too. Looking at them in section 8 of the Master Parts the two transfer cases are almost completely different animals.

While you have it this far down, double check the pillow block bearings for slop, and the radius rods too - you'll never have a better opportunity.

I thought the Society of the Military Horse folks might like this, so cross-posted a link there;

http://www.militaryhorse.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10812

Gordon

Thanks Mike.

This little trailer was designed for hauling two tons of cross ties ( sleepers ) and / or rail sections from the depot to the point of use, over road or rail.

Two sections of rail would be centred on the trailer bed ( after the front and back panels had been detached ) and they would be secured with the clamps which you can see swivelled down at the front of the bed. A towbar would be secured to the front of the tow rail sections, using the fishplate holes, and the trailer would be towed with that.

It was so wrecked when I saw it that I thought it was ancient, turns out is was made in 1986 and had had a hard life....

If you do find some rail, and want to haul it home 39 foot at a time;

http://www.gwim2.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/NOLAN.htm

I know rail comes in different weights per unit length, but I always considered that two 39 foot sections of rail would have weighed more than the two tons this trailer was rated at?

Gordon

That should be a standard 2" military gauge, and the repro jeep / Dodge gauge from any dealer should fit the dash. Most of those repros come with a cylinder head adapter which may well be a straight fit into the head.

All my Dodge stuff is the earlier civilian pattern.

Gordon

too many Dodges

Falkirk

Climbs well in reverse, doesn't it ?

No problem.

The phrase to use is 'legacy compliance' - basically the vehicle was in use at the time the CoC regulations were originated.

That phrase can, and should, be used where testing for things like brake efficiencies, transmission handbrake, lighting systems, etc.

G