Great War truck

My new office is built on the remains of an old car factory. When they were clearing the site a bulldozer dissapeared down a hole in the ground and landed on a large pile of Morris Minor body parts. When they stopped making them they dumped all these body panels in a cellar and forgot about them. They ahd suffered quite badly, but i dont know if any were salvaged. Another story i know to be true because i have seen the photos and the surviving parts relate to WW1 Leyland trucks. When they stopped making the trucks they were left with a large number of bonnets and side panels which they placed under the floor of an office at the Leyland factory. When this part of the factory was demolished the panels were recovered and given to Mike Sutcliffe (Mr Leyland) who has used them in his restorations. Now all i need to do is dig up the floor of the Dennis factory in Guildford which is now a Weatherspoons pub. Tim (too)

I am always hearing story's from various peole that when the Yanks left at the end of the war that they disposed of numerous vehicles and equipment by digging great big holes and burying them. The storys come from various people and have included the owner of an airfield (Upottery as in Band of Brothers) that there are 50 buried Jeeps on his land, a farmer in Devon who said he saw the Yanks digging a great big hole and burying all their equipment before they left, then blowing up the bulldozers they used to fill in the hole, to an article in the Telegraph (about 20 years ago) about a bloke who dug up a Harley in a crate in a field and then found several more nearby. Another chap told me that outside Plymouth a farmer when ploughing kept turning up Jeep parts - hoods, windscreens, all totally rotted of course. An old boy that i knew who rented a workshop on an WW2 airfield said that when they were putting in trenches that they found what they thought were coffins, but which later turned out to be crates full of Pratt and Witney aero engine tools, all wrapped up in Cosmoline and like new (i beleive this guy). I remember at Stoneleigh years ago there was a chap with buckets full of rusty US cutlery that he said that he dug up from an old US camp. I know the yanks abandoned or destroyed a great deal of equipment at the end of the war, but has anybody ever found anything them selves to verify this sort of story. The idea of finding a Jeep in a crate buried is exciting, but totally fanciful i think. Even with the best packaging in the world, a Jeep would have suffered badly. A box of tools you might be ok with, depending on what the water table was like. Some locations things would survive better than others. Dunkeswell does have a small museum and someone i spoke to their years ago was convinced of the existence of these mythical buried Jeeps and thought that he knew where they would be. I am still waiting to hear of his success.

Took the old box out easily enough, then had to get a new drop arm as the old one was beyond salvation (and i couldnt get it off the splines of the old box anyway). Due to various other matters i was not able to get back to the Jeep for a while, but have got stuck into it now. This has presented me with a couple of questions that i am sure someone will be able to offer speedy advice. 1). I am having a bit of a struggle getting the drop arm on to the splines of the new box. The manual seems to give the impression that it should be quite easy although i have now bent the tommy bar from my socket set trying to get it on to the same position that the one on the old box is at. Should i use a press to do this, or buy another tommy bar (preferbly not another Chnese one for £2.50). It might be that i have already done it up tight enough, it is just that it is not quite as far up the splines as the one on the original box. 2). The second question relates to doing up the safety plug on the steering connecting rod. Is there a specific recommended tool for this as it is an awkward so and so to reach. Also it has become very tight when to my mind there is still several more turns required. I bought a "Kit" for the steering connecting rod and the springs are much longer than the originals which probably has something to do with it. Is there anything else that i might be doing wrong. Thanks all Tim (too).

Well you will have to come for a ride when it is finished. Do you make visits to the UK very often. Steve and I both have WW1 US Uniforms which we have worn out with the FWD. it made some nice photos. Am currently thinking about collecting a WW1 British Army uniform but have been diverting the money elsewhere instead. As part of my interest i collect photos of WW1 transport and have come across several photos of British built trucks in US Army service. The most common ones were Dennis, AEC, Daimler and Foden although there were no doubt many more. The first one i came across was of a Dennis which had both WD and USA on the side. We always think of the Yanks supplying the British with trucks, but at this time it seemed to work both ways. Tim (too)

Been busy for a while and then had computer problems. Things are settling down a bit so i thought that you might like to see what we have been up to recently. The radiator is now finished and on the front of the chassis. Looks rather good, although we wont know how good our repair work is until we run it. We think it will be ok though so are not too worried about it. We then tried mounting the scuttle to see how it looks. It still requires some holes cut in it and some tidying up, so it is now back of the lorry for some more work, but this is how it appeared for the dhort time that it was on. Steve has been as busy as always and using the remains of the old exhaust, he has made wooden patterns for the front and back to be cast. Also he has made patterns for the fuel tank mounting brackets and the exhaust elbow. Here are the patterns for the exhaust front and back compared with the originals: [/img] And here are the new castings: [/img] Finally, i mentioned some good news not so long ago. Well we have now acquired the correct torque tube and prop shaft. These were the last major components that we were missing. Although Steve was happy to look at making them, it will certainly save us a lot of bother and aggravation now that we have them. Here is a photo of one end. The other end is much the same, just with a great big heavy tube connecting the two ends. I am glad that we dont have to make them, although i think Steve was chomping at the bit for the opportunity to have a go. [/img]

And me

And me

This sort of thing happens all the time. Incredibly rare and unusual vehicles are regularly destroyed by over keen restorers. Here is an example: [/img] So it is an old Dennis fire engine from about 1930. It might not look like much, but only a few years ago this was totally complete, original and with just a few thousand miles on the clock. So the new owner thought "i will save that for preservation, however, i dont like that original petrol engine", so he cut it out (with chunks of the chassis) and scrapped it. He then thought that all of the original fire engine body, turntable etc would be of little use, so he scrapped that too with the intention of building a camper van on it. He then lost interest and it has been sitting in a field for a few years. His actions have made it almost impossible or at least very expensive to restore. However, it has now been saved as a parts vehicle. The diff has gone to a 1920's Dennis bus. The prop shaft and torque tube have gone to us for our Dennis truck restoration and the remainder will be going to a Dennis fire engine restorer to provide parts for his various restorations. So with the demise of this vehicle it will in fact help put three possibly four partially restored vehicles back on the road. It is sad but what do you do. It is a free world and you can do whatever you want, even if it means the loss of an irraplaceable historic artifact. Personally, if we came to ever sell any of our vehicles, i would vet the seller to make sure that he has the means to care for the vehicle and is not liable to do something stupid to it. There are several original WW1 trucks that have been converted into busses for no apparent reason other than the owners desire to own a bus. Certainly it is their right to do so as it is mine to complain about it.

From my experience, there are very few of the big artillery pieces surviving. In fact i can only think of one (non emplaced) example and that was in the IWM in London. I will have a look for a photo. There are plenty of the smaller ones around, in fact the Royal Horse Artillery have about 8 i think. There is talk of them disbanding, so i wonder if those guns would make it on to the market. There are also quite a few German artillery pieces around. I met a guy at beltring about 8 years ago who had rcovered a German piece from a scrapyard and was hoping to restore it. I wonder if it was the same one now in Wales. Two nicely restored German examples came up for sale at an auction in Yorkshire about 10 years ago. I only just threw away the catalogue which had pictures of them. I have no idea where they went, but it would be nice to know. There was a fashion at the end of the war to put captured German guns on plinths in various towns as memorials. The one at Mounts Bay got melted down as scrap in WW2 and then replaced by a British 5.5 at the end of the war. There were two examples near me at Burford and at Bourton on the Water. The locals kept wheeling them down the hill and dumping them in the river. In the end the councils got fed up with dragging them out and sent them both to the scrap yard. Sad. Tim (too)

Well you get a prize for having found the earliest bucket, but i must ask, is this pumper horsedrawn by any chance? Does the firebrigade grow roses in their yard? Tim (too)

I can see it on my calendar beside me. It does i fear not prove anything as it is only however on the recreated photograph and not on the original. Good try though. It is possible that an LRDG unit would carry a folding canvas bucket on the offchance of using it to pull up water out of a well, as quite a few did exist across the desert. However, i think that carrying it in such a vulnerable place (being suspended from the front bumper) is very unlikley as it would either drag or snag while driving in the rough terrain out in the desert which would result in either its loss or severe damage. Those LRDG vehicle restorers do a fine job. I wonder if any of them has an original photo of a canvas bucket in action! If anybody has not seen this picture and would like to, let me know and i will post it on the forum. Tim (too)

What a superb picture. It looks like a sight that you would see in India or Vietnam. Nice try, but bucket is not canvas, so does not count. What is that vehicle can you tell? Tim (too)

I recently came across this picture in the superb French Vehicules Militaire magazine. [/img] Now dont get me wrong, it is a superb "last nut and bolt" (e'crou et verrou) restoration, but i was a bit taken aback by the vast amount of kit hanging on the side (it is just the same on the other side as well). Now my instant thought would be that some one would nick it even if i was driving down the M25, or it would fall off or be knocked off by the hedges. So my question is, although it looks good, how authentic is it? Are there many pictures of vehicles this weighed down with equipment? Also, would it be correct for a vehicle assigned to the artillery to be carrying what appears to be bangalore torpedoes strapped to the outside of the truck. They might not actually be bangalores, they might be tubes for cleaning out the barrel, or in fact poles for holding up netting, any thoughts anbody? Were jerrycan spouts hung from the canvas water buckets? So your task (if you chose to accept it) is to find pictures of stowage patterns so we could confirm what sort of practices were followed. Here is the first one of a Jeep with the 106th Cavalry (interestingly, the 106th referred to all of their Jeeps as "Bantams" right through the war). [/img] Similarly to the GMC, it has Musette bags and bed rolls hanging from the side. More unusually there appears to be a 30cal ammo tin hanging from the spare tyre bracket. Also an entrenching tool has been put through the rear grab handle. The carrying of Germans on the hood was not a common accessory, but a common practice with the 106th in the latter stages of the war. They do not reflect like a windscreen would. Tim (too)

Just so you know what state the rest of it is in, here are some more photos. This is the core, which was in very good condition, although needing some gentle tweaking with some pliers to get the gills straight. The white dust is oxidised aluminium. The bottom tank was in as bad as condition as the top. Just full of holes as well as eroded. As it was a water pump it probably sat full of water for a long time so that it might be ready for action. [/img] Tony plated up the holes and then filled the space with Devcon and then covered with an epoxy resin, much in the same way as the top tank. [/img] The sides of the radiator were broken and needed replacing. [/img] Using an original as a patterns with an extra piece of wood fixed to the top to account for shrinkage in the casting process, we got a pair recast. The end result was OK, but a little rough. A friend suggested a different foundry and they did a superb job. They just need a good polish. [/img] Hopefully the next photos that i post of the radiator, it will be fully assembled and on the truck. As for whether it will leak or will be water proof, we will all have to wait and see.

Sorry, i posted that as a seperate topic when it should have been a continuation of the WW1 Dennis thread

Sorry. I posted that update as a seperate topic when it should have been a conitinuation of the same thread. My mistake. Tim (too)

As i have not posted anything for a while, i thought that i should add some photos of the restoration of the radiator. As you can probably tell from the dates on some of the photos this has been going on quite a while and i think that Tony is sick to death of it. As you know, by now we have acquired the remains of 7 Dennis lorrys now, but we acquired an engine and radiator off of a water pump. These are the correct ones for our restoration and we think that the pump was assembled from bits left over at the factory not long after the end of the war. However our thrill of having an original radiator lasted up until the moment that we took it apart. It had obviously been sitting full of water for a large part of its life and was terribly corroded. There are lots of interesting photos of this, but i will start off with just the top tank. This is what the inisdes looked like after we took it apart. Steve purchased a large quantity of citric acid from a home brew shop and pickled the radiator in a large dubish bin. When it came out and was given a polish it looked quite good However, you can see under the D a hole. Not too bad, but take a look at the other side.[/img] The aliminium is rotted away almost the entire lenght of the flange. One option is to make a pattern and get a new radiator cast. However, Tony thinks that he could fix it, so he drilled holes in the casting to which he bolted aluminium plate reinforcement. [/img] Then packed the gap full of Devcon which bonds to aluminium. [/img] Then painted over the whole lot with an epoxy resin. [/img] This should keep the water in the thing, or at least reduce the leak to a managable level.[/img]

As i have not posted anything for a while, i thought that i should add some photos of the restoration of the radiator. As you can probably tell from the dates on some of the photos this has been going on quite a while and i think that Tony is sick to death of it. As you know, by now we have acquired the remains of 7 Dennis lorrys now, but we acquired an engine and radiator off of a water pump. These are the correct ones for our restoration and we think that the pump was assembled from bits left over at the factory not long after the end of the war. However our thrill of having an original radiator lasted up until the moment that we took it apart. It had obviously been sitting full of water for a large part of its life and was terribly corroded. There are lots of interesting photos of this, but i will start off with just the top tank. This is what the inisdes looked like after we took it apart. [/img] A closer view will show the deep corrosion. [/img] Steve purchased a large quantity of citric acid from a home brew shop and pickled the radiator in a large dubish bin. When it came out and was given a polish it looked quite good [list=] However, you can see under the D a hole. Not too bad, but take a look at the other side.[/img] The aliminium is rotted away almost the entire lenght of the flange. One option is to make a pattern and get a new radiator cast. However, Tony thinks that he could fix it, so he drilled holes in the casting to which he bolted aluminium plate reinforcement. [/img] Then packed the gap full of Devcon which bonds to aluminium. [/img] Then painted over the whole lot with an epoxy resin. [/img] This should keep the water in the thing, or at least reduce the leak to a managable level.

Well thanks for your kind comments. It is really greatly appreciated when people notice the effort that we put into these trucks. I think that the general public would not even notice or understand what work, effort, time and money goes in to them. A good job that we do it for fun really. I have lots more interesting photos to add and some exciting news, which I hope to post in a few weeks time once we get it home. More later on this. I have scanned a picture in of the British WW1 Autocar as we acquired it. It was still in regular use as a coal lorry up until 1956. It must have had a hard life as the chassis and a second chassis that was bolted on top had been broken - probably due to over loading. It was totally worn out with just about every moving part needing attention. It did come with a spare engine bolted to the chassis which was nice. Anyway, back to the Dennis. We have made a new drag link using the original castings and a new steel bar and have fitted that. [/img] So the steering is nearly completed. Just the correct pattern steering wheel to find or make next. Do you remember the picture of the new corner welded into the scuttle. Steve set about that with an angle grinder to tidy it up: [/img] And this was the end result. One down three more to go [/img] The end result is really quite satisfying. The scuttle does need a great deal more work doing to it though. But once it, the radiator and the bonnet is on it will look like we are really getting there. I will tell you about the bonnet and radiator next, but will wait a bit until they are more photogenic.

All of our vehciles are at our parents house, garden, shed and field and we arrange working weekends to go down and achieve a list of prearranged objectives. Although their house is at the end of a road, it seems that the moment we step outside all of the neigbours, walkers, holiday makers appear and look in, stop to ask questions and cause other distractions. It is nice to see most of them but they can be a distraction. One lady who is incredibly irritating stopped by to ask me about her missing cat. She goes on and on and accused me of driving my Jeep over it while driving up in the woods (which is an exciting drive at the best of times). I did indicate that the Jeep did not actually have an engine in it so she went on to say that maybe it was in the MG TD. Did point out that the MG was not idealy suited for off roading. Before she got on to accuse me of stepping on her cat i got the Black and Decker going with a cup brush to knock some rust off of some Jeep parts and she carried on talking to me. Not knowing the best way to get rid of her i looked up occasionally and shouted "What" at her while continuing to de-rust. Eventually she wandered away. Anyway, someone eventually reported her to the RSPCA and they took away all 37 of her cats. I have not seen her since.

All of our vehciles are at our parents house, garden, shed and field and we arrange working weekends to go down and achieve a list of prearranged objectives. Although their house is at the end of a road, it seems that the moment we step outside all of the neigbours, walkers, holiday makers appear and look in, stop to ask questions and cause other distractions. It is nice to see most of them but they can be a distraction. One lady who is incredibly irritating stopped by to ask me about her missing cat. She goes on and on and accused me of driving my Jeep over it while driving up in the woods (which is an exciting drive at the best of times). I did indicate that the Jeep did not actually have an engine in it so she went on to say that maybe it was in the MG TD. Did point out that the MG was not idealy suited for off roading. Before she got on to accuse me of stepping on her cat i got the Black and Decker going with a cup brush to knock some rust off of some Jeep parts and she carried on talking to me. Not knowing the best way to get rid of her i looked up occasionally and shouted "What" at her while continuing to de-rust. Eventually she wandered away. Anyway, someone eventually reported her to the RSPCA and they took away all 37 of her cats. I have not seen her since.

Well, i went to Stoneleigh and i took advice, everybodys in fact. What i have done is bought the last Hotchkiss box held by Dallas Autoparts. Now don't lose faith here. What i intend to do is take out my original, put the Hotchbox in to keep me on the road, then rebuild the original and then put the Hotchbox up for sale while i put the original back in. This means of course that i have to change the box twice, but it gives me mobility while i rebuild the original. Now, the question is, would i have done the same thing if i had not just been paid and had money burning a hole in my pocket. Or if i had found something else interesting to buy at Stoneleigh (which i did not). I will keep you updated on the box. Tim (too)

Well thanks guys. Lots of info there. It would appear that the box has already been adjusted as far is it will go, so it is a rebuild or replacement box time. Time to stop just putting my trust in the Lord to ensure that I do not stray from the path of righteousness and crash into the oncoming HGV of sin. Not to sure how that would look on the insurance form if i did prang it either. I am totally torn between buying a NOS Hotchkis box or rebuilding it. Oh heck, its too cold to go anywhere at the moment, lets have a go at rebuilding it. I just got paid so Stoneleigh here i come! Tim (too)

Thanks Degsy. You go the extra mile in the line of customer service. If only my Bank were so helpful. Tim (too)