fv1609

Was the lynx ever trialed in the UK?

 

Are there any photos?

 

What does anyone know?

 

It was indeed.

 

Yes there are.

 

I have the Trials Report

 

http://hmvf.co.uk/forumvb/showthread.php?36883-No-146

Yes but I wonder did your renewal reminder have the bit on the bottom line, like mine did?

 

I would have thought if the system knew it was exempt it wouldn't have that line printed

 

 

Not important really but what is Validation Character all about?

I have been very stupid about the date of manufacture I had expected it to be on page 2 with most of the other details. But it is on the front page in section 3

 

1. WAS REGISTERED AND/OR USED. DECLARED MANUFACTURED 1953.

 

So there it is staring me in the face. I see on the DVLA site that MOT exemption applies to vehicle manufactured before 1 January 1960.

 

I should have felt reassured but I taxed the Pig last month & was surprised to see an MOT was required.

 

 

So I presented a V112G in usual way. I have just looked on the DVLA site but there is no mention of MOT liability for any vehicles I have that do require an MOT.

 

Went onto the VOSA site https://www.gov.uk/browse/driving/mot-insurance & got this

 

 

So it still looks as if the system still expects an MOT. However I then did a search for the Shorland & that showed the MOT had expired! But it said I could get more up to date information by putting in the number of the current MOT rather than the V5C number.

 

It seems that the response only indicates the status at the time of the V5C issue. So the only way to check on there the MOT status of the Pig is to...yes wait for it... enter the reference number on the MOT certificate....which I don't have as it is exempted with the use of a V112G which now wish to abandon.

 

I suppose if I had taxed it online I would have found out, but I prefer to support my village Post Office & as the renewal stated an MOT was required I produced the V112G. Anyway they closed down 2 weeks ago. But I don't want to wait for next year to find when I retax it on line. For peace of mind I want to clarify the MOT status is recorded on the system & avoid any of the V112G "unladen" issues.

The vehicles Military ERM is 'EL' which I believe was for year 1964? Can anyone confirm the 'EL' year please.

 

EL is the fiscal year 1963-4

Chris that was a brilliant link, thank you.

 

Both the vehicles I was concerned about do in fact have the correct date of manufacture.

My thoughts? Well my blunt thoughts are sort out your brakes first! Automotive first, fancy bits second.

 

But in specific reply, FVRDE Spec 9224 only refers to "sheet metal external lockers" no gauge is specified although the varied thickness of the armour is laid down.

 

Many lockers you see are rebuilt & some very well. Mine are more rigid than original & I think look passable externally. The choice was either to pay a vast amount to have some made for me but to a specification I am unsure of or have the satisfaction of cobbling together something myself on the cheap.

 

The risk is you could pay a vast sum to have them built, yet not match the original spec & great care & skill needed to design them to fit. When I first constructed mine to drawings & measurements I did have the main sheets cut out for me, but as the lockers grew on the frame on the vehicle there were significant discrepancies. I would have been gutted if fancy professional ones didn't fit. I think a metal worker's view is you produce an accurate drawing & I'll make it to that. Getting that precise drawing is the problem. At least my locker growing on the vehicle side steps that & even takes account of the fact that one wheel is 1 cm wider than the other! Or rather it is positioned that way allowing for the position of the holes in the main body.

 

As for thickness I think the front locker lids should be your guide. The side rear lockers are of a more complex design. Mine were NOS complete with VAOS labels. :-D

For my Jeep, they used the DOD May 6th 1943 as the Date of first Registration and March 1st 2014 as Date of first UK registration.

 

Ah so first registration is not necessarily registration with DVLA.

I am allways surprised you seem to have the correct manual for most items.

But then again I shouldn't seeing you have so many.

 

The biggest problem is to actually find where I put the book that the database tells me I have got :-D

Over the years I have had vehicles previously verified by the MVT & I now have vehicles that I have registered myself that have required a LVLO inspection.

 

What I don’t understand is the relationship between the dates of manufacture, registration & first registration.

 

For example looking at a copy of an old V5, I see the “Date of Registration” being in 1988 which was when I registered it & a note printed “Declared manufactured 1965”. Accordingly it was given a “C” suffix registration.

 

A few years I was able to prove to DVLA, with the help of the MVT, that it had once been registered in 1966 & was able to reinstate the original registration number.

 

What seems curious is that now the new V5C has different wording:

“Date of first registration” & “Date of first registration in UK” but this appears in both as 1988 not 1966.

 

There seems to be no provision for the date of manufacture anymore. So I don’t see how proving the date of manufacture cuts any ice as far as establishing a first registration date.

 

I’m lucky because I can prove, with a copy of the 1966 V5, that it was registered then. But I don’t see how it would work with the average military vehicle that might be first registered maybe 10 or more years after manufacture & be the wrong side of date for say MOT exemption or historic vehicle status.

 

Maybe I have misunderstood. “Date of first registration” for a normal car is going to be pretty close to the date of manufacture. Does perhaps “Date of first registration” mean a euphemism for when it was first put on the road? I have always assumed it was registration with DVLA, but might it be in the case of a military vehicle the date into service, which would be pretty close to its date of manufacture?

I noticed the antenna element is labelled "MK87AA" in two places - I wonder if anyone knows what this means ?

I should think that is the ERM of the vehicle for which the item was issued.

It just seemed a lot of effort.

 

It is indeed but that is much of the fun in this hobby for me

Just playing devils advocate here.

 

If nobody knows what it looks like and it his been superseded :-

 

How will you KNOW its right

 

why was it replaced

 

who will care?

 

:rofl: Oh you are awful, ok then I'll rise to the bait.

 

I will know it is correct if it has a VAOS label or FV260874 on it or even it is marked Remax & it is 3-way 3-pole switching with a light on it.

 

It was replaced circa 1971-2 to conform to standard lighting arrangements of the FV1611 Pigs but my vehicle is a FV1609 & I'm trying to depict 1969.

 

ME! There are another 57 differences between mine & the standard FV1611. There are a few connoisseurs out there who can spot some differences & indeed there are occasionally members of the public who twig there is something a bit strange about it. But by & large most people aren't really interested & see it as being no different to any other Pig.

 

So this venture is just for my personal satisfaction. Nobody will see that this winter I have cleaned & painted the transfer box the correct colour in BSC Lemon zinc phosphate primer specially mixed for me, needle gunned the rear chassis & put in new screened cables that are out of sight. I have been wrestling whether to fit some countersunk screws I have that are BSF when I should be using UNF. They will be out of site, but I've not decided about that yet :undecided:

you can see it towards the end of this video, to the right of the starter panel:

 

Terry thanks for that yes that does look like what I was expecting to see. It is 100% authentic for your vehicle but does have a very civilian look as it is a standard Lucas fitting rather than a FV pattern thing. Curiously I do have one of those it was an item fitted to my FV1601 & I have seen on other GS Humbers although the general EMER relating to fitting turnlights specifically excluded Humbers. Although I think the EMER should have meant Humbers (Armoured).

 

The switch I'm after is FV260874 & I did get excited that in the 1977 Saracen ISPL there is an entry FV260873 clearly the right era but that is for a light not the number for the switch.

 

Looking in the Technical Description EMER there is no mention of turnlights at all, that came later in EMER WV V 617 Mod Instr No.76 1968. It describes fitting the turnlight just as you have.

 

It so odd that this FV switch so far seems not to have been used in anything else, yet the Saracen when it gets turnlights has a commercial Lucas switch. I suppose the difference is that my Humber was a bit ahead of its time in that the User Handbook of 1956 describes its action.

 

As an interim measure I couldn't use the Lucas switch because it is 3-way 1-pole whereas the Remax FV Spec is 3-way 3-pole. But thanks for the suggestion Terry.

Plus postage charge of 10%

Yes your fault Wayne, started me thinking - a dangerous thing to do.

 

Assuming I eventually find one, I have to dismantle the column that houses the present turn switch & horn/dip switch. Then make a much smaller sloping box for the horn/dip switch then stick this illusive flashy switch on the top.

Is anyone familiar with this please?

 

Flashing direction indicator switch Remax No.1 Mk 1 FV260874

 

I would like to try & find one but first I need to know what it looks like or what other vehicle of the 1950s might have used it. Googling & e-bay have produced nothing but it seems the company at some time was known as "Park Remax"

 

This turn switch was originally used on my Pig; unfortunately it is just out of view of all the detailed photographs of the time. According to the User Handbook it was mounted on top of the horn/dip switch enclosure & can be barely seen here as Item 6.

 

 

 

It is unlike the switch in the production Pig which is a Turn signal switch No.2 Mk 1 & has an external indicator. The Remax is more complex not only because of the built-in light but it is 3-way of course but a 3-pole switch because it has a switching relationship with the brake lights that share the function with turn indication.

 

In the 1950s few vehicles had turn lights, but in the period 1964-5 there were at least 140 EMERs issued for various B vehicles & trailers to be fitted with turn lights & NATO socket provision. Unfortunately the turn light fitted was a Switch, turn signal No.2 Mk 1 & has far less contacts.

 

I just wonder if this switch was used in any other vehicles of the time. It seems an extraordinary length to go to for an allocation of a FV design pattern for just 20 prototype vehicles. Given the FV allocation I think it is unlikely to have found its way into what are now classic cars apart from being more complex than the usual sort of turn switch.

Howard it turns out that I also have the parts list for the original Saxon (All variants) so that should clarify things even if there were mods, I have mods, general instructions & CES.

 

BUT it is all in microfiche....so I may be a little while!

Howard if you were thinking of doing the Saxon Patrol Ambulance I have the illustrated parts book. It is quite detailed including the spall liners that I imagine would be GRP it would not be Makralon (the transparent shatter-proof stuff for riot shields & window protection). Also have quite a few shots of them at Ludgershall when they had just been issued.

I have a AP1086 but it is rather thin on detail & is only 1949.

 

I have a lot of FAP1086 of the 1980s-90s the earliest is 1984 but there is only one 6A item! That is 6A/2205 which is a mach switch for a Nimrod. I assume by then everything else that was not obsolete was NATO codified.

 

The earliest RAF fiche I have of NSNs is 1994 & that doesn't list your switch although there are some surrounding NSNs.

 

6A/4097 does by chance throw up a French NSN for a part for a US made Caterpillar but that is of no relevance!

 

I have AP129 1955 that covers aircraft instruments, indeed gives functional detail of most of the instruments you have. In machmeters it only goes to Mk 3A & not mention of your type or Monitor Unit Type H.

 

So an hour of rummaging has turned up nothing useful I'm afraid!

All the relatively modern ones (from WW2 on) I've seen have green canvas.

 

It seems to be a characteristic of early ones that they had "canvas, which is tanned" this is quoted in manuals:

 

MSC 1885

RAMC 1899, 1908, 1911, 1925

It could be far earlier than WW2. Stretcher design changed little in a 100 years.

 

This looks like Ambulance Stretcher Mk II & that pre-dates RAMC

 

I used to have one with that browny canvas & that had a date stencilled on the canvas it was faded but I think it was 1917.

Are both those switches No.2 Mk 1 but with the early and later levers.

Yes I think so. Unless it is the knob that decided its Mk?

 

I'm not sure what a Mk 2 looks like. Mine pre-dates Mk 1 as it was built in 1956 there was no Parts List other than the 1952 Parts List for the CT Truck & even that had no turn indicators. So perhaps mine is the No.1?

 

I intend to make up a spare switch with cables to have it in reserve. I can't remember what terminations there are on my switch which is more complicated than a normal turn switch. When the Army took it over they destroyed some of the original wiring. My turn lights were designed also to be my stop lights which take priority over turn indication. I achieved it with 6 diodes & a relay. But I have since realised it could be achieved with 9 diodes & no relay.

 

The chromed lever is different to a Smiths type lever on the control pack and I assume push on and not captive screw retained.

Its both, without the grub screw it allows the tensioned ball in the shaft to engage. But a grub screw could be used on non-sprung shafts.

 

I must find my CD parts manual to assist me further.

It doesn't have any amendments though. But I don't think you should be aiming to use a Smiths pointer with the nut & thread in the axis of the narrower shaft as on mine as that would be pre-date the build of your Pig. Although MERLIN seems to think all Pigs were built in 1954 Grrh! So we get all these showground entries with people believing their Pig was built in 1954 :nono:

It's worth looking at the whole EMER POWER series as the generator, starter, instruments etc are to be found & of course these systems were shared other vehicles.

 

S 520 etc is general to B Series and /4 is specific to B81

Wayne you really need the correct knob for the Mk 1 switch. Both these types were fitted.

 

 

As you know drivers found it hard to realise the direction of turn was the reciprocal of the lower paddle. It was a little bit clearer with the pointed knob though. When the switch was moved lower down it allowed the knob to be mounted upside down. But of course the 'plastic' one needed cutting as can be seen here.

 

I went to the trouble of moving my turn switch back to its original position & filling in the new hole. As my vehicle depicts an era before this modification that was issued in July 1963.

I have the Stalwart EMERs which have some engine details in but I do not have the Rolls Royce manual.

Hi you say you have the Stalwart EMERs I assume you mean EMER WHEELED VEHICLES V 640 - 649 and V 640/2 - 649/2

 

But you may not necessarily really need the RR manual as the engine is covered in EMER POWER S 520 - 529 and S 520/4 - 529/4.

 

Forgive me if you already have those & it also nice to have the RR manual