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Hi everyone. I found this wrecked Valentine on the Durham moors west of Barnard Castle a few weeks ago. Its miles from any road or path and cannot be seen until you more or less stumble on it in the heather and scrub. The area was used during WW2 for training by Armoured Corps and Infantry Battle School troops stationed at the 6 camps in the area. The army are all long gone and the camps mostly demolished. Apart from one small surviving rifle range, the whole training area has long since reverted to civilian ownership - mostly sheep grazing or grouse shooting. As such this tank lies on public access land - although remote and well hidden. I couldnt add this explanation when i uploaded the photos as i was joining at the same time so sorry about the delays. Anyone know anything about it please? Thanks. Dave.

Some useful spares there for someone.

On 1/9/2021 at 12:40 PM, Dave 892 said:

Hi everyone. I found this wrecked Valentine on the Durham moors west of Barnard Castle a few weeks ago. Its miles from any road or path and cannot be seen until you more or less stumble on it in the heather and scrub. The area was used during WW2 for training by Armoured Corps and Infantry Battle School troops stationed at the 6 camps in the area. The army are all long gone and the camps mostly demolished. Apart from one small surviving rifle range, the whole training area has long since reverted to civilian ownership - mostly sheep grazing or grouse shooting. As such this tank lies on public access land - although remote and well hidden. I couldnt add this explanation when i uploaded the photos as i was joining at the same time so sorry about the delays. Anyone know anything about it please? Thanks. Dave.

 

 

 

Im since told it is in fact an A9 Cruiser

Near the Butterstone ,  across the road - if you look at the  O.S.  OL31  map , you will see shed foundation outlines with the words  Works ,  they could go back to when Hury & Balderhead reservoirs were constructed  ?        Alternatively they could have been associated with Battle Hill ranges when they were in constant use WW2.    Obviously tanks were in use near Battle Hill , therefore they may have been Army garaging / workshops  ?      I often use the B6276  ,  however not the moor road Cotherstone to Bowes -  I guess a handful of times in 50 years ,  I have a vague recollection of just a single shed that I think was used by a lorry owner ,  I may have noticed a dozer also  -  probably a gripping contractor. This shed was near the road right at the corner ,  I think it probably went around  1990  ?

btw       I don't wish to spoil the fun  ,    IMHO  it may have been used post  WW2  (less turret)  to haul a gripping plough  !       Wemmergill Estates , had some early gripping done ,  also more recently lots was being done up past Close House mine   (and gun-bus access tracks) -  I can't remember when I was last there but it would be approx.  1980 to 1990..

Thanks Ruxy. The buildings opposite the Butter Stone comprised a water works facility linked to the reservoirs - part of the Lartington works. I remember them well. It was demolished only in the last few years - somewhat surprisingly given its age. I am aware of tank hulls being used as dozers at quarries and open cast sites throughout UK and beyond from the late 1940s. A company called Rotinov made use of the post war excess of Shermans - one of which was regularly seen working at Winston on the A67 down the road. However I dont personally think an A9 or even a Valentine would have fallen into civilian hands for such use - given their post war rarity, comparative unreliability and the ready availability of much better tracked vehicles. Still - who knows??

Coldberry Mine  , you mentioned tank storage  WW2   ,  that info.  may be spurious  -  I know that top end of Hudeshope very well .  used to go for a large family picnic every summer  1950 ,  main family line  Grieve  made exit from Scotland when cattle/sheep  "droving"  went into decline .  The topmost place was where they settled.  The fields at Newbiggin side are still owned by  the Gargett branch.   My mother abt. 1958 pointed out to me the original  -  typical early era.  cattle below & humans above ,  I don't think it had a roof ,  may have been a heather thatch  (it was more or less a shieling) , Teesdale sandstone slabs came later.  Others became the mine 'shop'  ,   last time I was at Coldberry reservoir  (apparently for hush water)  would be abt. 1972.    The mine area is now very different ,  the heaps of waste have greatly gone,  when SAMUK left , my mothers cousin Tony Grieve and Don Parkin (married my mothers cousin)   (both lived at TownHead) stayed on to reclaim on own account full time job for many years ,  lead had been after in the main,  they screened & washed for fluorspar and Barytes  -   it was then taken for crushing and the floatation plant at Broadwood, Frosterley.       You would hardly believe the amount of spent practice rounds laid about - we were always told they were safe  BUT  don't touch them  !       I think my relations must have collected and weighed it in  LoL  .    My father =in=law  had the fields at the other side , he was in a reserved occupation of joiner/undertaker often mentioned the Home Guard that he was in.      Nobody ever mentioned tanks at Coldberry , and if they were - I think I would have heard about it.

btw.    A  rumour  told from more than a single source - that  Military vehicles were sold / auctioned from Raby Park immediate post WW2 - never been able to lock-on to this.   1960 to 1965 , I often camped with the scouts alongside the castle lakes (ponds)  ISTR in the first few years there were Army type huts not far from the moat among the trees.   Never found any info. of the army being present WW2   ?

The Coldberry mine info i got was from the recorded memoirs of a ww2 trooper was actually from Teesdale and found himself back at Barny for RAC training. He gives perhaps the most detailed account available of tank training here because he knows (or knew) the area well. I know the Coldberry complex well as have often visited here and have accessed the buildings, workings and some levels (safely) of most surviving Lead, Barytes and Flourspar complexes in the northern dales as  Industrial Archaeology is my main passion. I also read that there was indeed a timber and tented camp in the grounds of Raby Castle called 30VR (Vehicle Repair) depot. This may or may not have been called ‘Staindrop Camp’. The years have since clouded the memories of those who were temporarily stationed in the area and never had any cause to come back. Stainton, Streatlam, Barford and Staindrop all seem to get mixed up in their recollections.

Dave

The story of a line of tanks (or any tank) going down  Galgate , Horsemarket , the Bank to cross the County Bridge - I think that needs further checking - I am certain the Teesdale Mercury would have had photographs & periodically (as they do) have shown them  ?  I have never seen any photographic evidence.

I remember trying to find aircraft crash sites during the 1960's  ,  all the tales and wild goose chases.    I only accept near primary evidence.   

Early 1980's  the Army had a permanent ramp built at Redmire station to offload tanks from Warflat , then trundle them across the fields to Catterick Garrison.        Any local Barny movements to Teesdale - then I would expect - move them on to Warflat  @  Broomielaw  Station & shunt them over the viaduct to Cotherstone  station or  M-in-T  station.    Likewise from Warcop over the Stainmore summit by rail.

btw.   I did the odd cave & mine visit with Dennis Coggins  ,  he would probably have known all.

Have you checked the  Fitzhugh Library  - I knew it as the Mechanics (Mechanics Institute).      I used my cousin as a reference library , if he didn't know he would ask Lorne Tallentire.   My cousin served his time as a instrument-mechanic , had abt. 5 tractors & Austin 7 + BIG Austin , Morgan etc.  so he was also interested in steam engines etc.   He certainly know of this tank.    Photographs -  Parkin Raine was the man ,  although ISTR  John Raine who had the Ironmongers (still fronting his name , under new management) was also heavy into photographs & local history.       To get a tank to Coldberry - it would have to trundle or trailered past this Ironmongers & Market Place.  Then possibly tracks using Beck Road , or highway to High Dyke & then on past Snaisgill.    Some locals with camera may have feared being locked up under Section 18B ,  however if tank(s) did pass through there will most certainly be some photographs.   However - I doubt is any can ever be turned out.

http://teesdalemercury.blogspot.com/2017/04/parkins-legacy-unique-record-of.html

Tanks were offloaded at Barnard Castle goods station and this is well recorded in detail by the station master of the day. His recollections were published in local press in 1946 but not before due to restrictions which prevented any such publication of written or photographic information by wartime emergency legislation. Even Churchill’s visit to Barnard Castle’s new  Infantry Battle School (IBS) in Dec 1942 was only reported weeks after the event - in the national press and with no location details. Local press had not been invited and the army took its own photos. 
The station master’s  memoirs were reprinted in a booklet published by the district council in the 90s and by the Teesdale Mercury on at least 2 occasions. Only Barnard Castle and Warcop had facilities to load and offload tanks despite Broomielaw, Lartington, Cotherstone and Bowes Stations being closer to training camps and areas. Warcop still has its ramp to this day. 
You are right about Redmire and it is by no means easy to load or unload oversized tracked vehicles even with special ramps and flat trucks which i witnessed with much lighter and versatile  Warrior IFVs back in the 90s. Shermans were oversized in height and needed troughed flats. Churchills were oversized in width and needed a clear run with no oncoming rail traffic.

As for Coldberry. The memoir states that at least two Cromwells were based here for a period. This may be to give some realism to Anti- tank training but I really dont know. Other sources mention machine gun training at some point here but i dont know if this was RAC or IBS or indeed if any vehicles - tanks or otherwise - were involved. Bren gun carrier training took place in Lunedale quarries and there is no reason to doubt that with 6 camps in the area, some form of training probably took place at many places throughout the area on a formal and ad-hoc basis - after 80 years long since forgotten. Wartime training involved the compulsory purchase of 6 million acres of land compared to 1 million held in 1939.

I have no reason to doubt these open-source accounts from those who were there at the time but how you interpret them is of course entirely down to you and i do value your remarks and interest.

Cheers

Dave

Go to the farm at  Cat Castle  ,  ask for Derek Bailes  (or his elder brother) ,  I last propped up the Fox & Hounds bar with Derek in 1968.   He was spreading lime for Tewards then and years after.   He should be able to tell you all about that tank.

http://www.thefitzhughlibrary.co.uk/index.php?Action=View&Type=CatalogueSearch&View=PhotoCatalogue&Display=SearchResults

Hi Ruxy

There may be a bit of an update from someone who worked on the Cotherstone Moor ranges appearing in the Echo this Saturday. The consensus is that this tank was eventually dragged here as an infantry target for small arms/piat/bazooka/mortar/rpg etc.

Dave

OK , will watch for it.  It is very annoying  - until about 2005 I had plenty of people who could give answers , now I find I have more queries than  just this tank.   A uncle (mothers eldest brother) was a engine driver on SWD&LU , mainly double heading coal trains until abt 1972. He had to base in digs at Kirkby Stephen , married a KS girl who was a  "progress chaser"   KS  sheds to Darlington North Road works , traveling past the camps twice per day.      I never thought to ask people abt. tank movements - esp. to Marwood Range, hardly public highway  ?    across fields  ?

ps.     Northern Echo  -  sounds like  Nicky Coggins , they have been on a farm near Cat Castle quite a few years.  His old man would have known all & I knew him well.

Hi  Dave

Had a look at the Northern Echo  ,  what can I say  ?  other than it only states the bloody obvious.   The source  Anth Maude ,  unfortunately it does not state his age ,  I am aware of a few Maude around  B.C.   there was at least one my age at school but I can't recall a Anth Maude  ,  I would be known as Anth sometimes at B.C.   at other places sometimes Tony (never by family)  or Anton or other names.

To be honest  IMHO  you need to continue your research ,   aerial photo recon.    Notice the heading towards Broomielaw Station ,  just in front of the loco you will see the tank level-crossing , and large figure of 8 practice field.   I don't recall seeing tanks in any of all the concrete 'turning circles'  from Barford Corner , don't know the purpose during WW2.   Broomielaw Station did have a sidings  IIRC it went into Barford and was for tank embark - disembark of Warflat (I was an apprentice @ Shildon Shops  1965 to 1971 , odd ones did get attention in the 'New Repair Shop'  where I spent some time from Easter '65.   Warflat were part of the MOD 'green fleet'.  I very much doubt if Warflat were  unloaded at B.C.  Goods Yard.  The Broomielaw  sidings - I would suggest was purpose installed for Warflat.      I well remember the Marwood Tank Training Area ,  it was much more covered in Whin , always appeared ungrazed until early 1970's.   Od occasion I was conned into carry a fence rail as a hunt follower , setting off near the golf course - the hunt never went through that area.   ISTR   warning signs just inside of walls/fences  abt. 2'x2'  , posted every 50 years with words to the effect of  MOD  Property -  KEEP OUT.

The road out of B.C.  towards Streatlam  , it was not the drag-strip it is today ,  1962 it was all re-aligned by DCC Highways , the worst section was past the Stainton Grove 'Married quarters'  , the sectional concrete panel semi's .  It was narrow with bad bends & hillocks,  a friend's brother did the contract digging with a Drot

https://staintongrove.tripod.com/ww2_military_camp/id21.html

As far as I can tell, Barford was RAC but only for armoured cars such as Dingos, Humbers and Staghounds etc. The vehicle park was opposite on the corner where the nissen sheds were recently demolished. There is an amusing anecdote of Barford crews under instruction having to stop on the Abbey Bridge, whilst instructors removed their headsets and climbed awkwardly out in order to pay the 4d toll - doubtless while Germany trembled at our sense of fair play!

The memoirs of the station master clearly detail the unloading of a variety of tanks at Barney goods station and the damage they caused to the surrounding properties. Its all reprinted verbatim in the Mercury.

Well -  you can search for images , period photographs of Broomielaw Station - the evidence is there - a sidings over the line rails from the waiting room , a incline from the line , this sidings went from near the signal box to rear of waiting room and headed off towards Barford, it can only have been of use to the Army.   Broomielaw had been a private halt for Streatlam until 1942 , then open for public & obviously soldiers.   The people in the farm right next to the station were called Bell , once with another friend (son of a Raby gamekeeper) then we used the DMU to B.C.   About  1966 I did a field inspection right here , using photographs still available on internet.  A Luftwaffe  Bf110 , if you like Me110 was shot at by the RAF and crashed,  the Northern Echo & Teesdale Mercury often have this story and the pilot , after getting his injured bordfunker clear set the aircraft on fire,  well it seemed to me it was a explosive detonation because a photograph shows the fuz. boom wrapped around  a pole (that was in fact a railway signal pole).  I know the area very well.   Probably the B.C. station-master also had the Broomielaw halt under is overall control.    The distance from the Butterstone where the tank wreck is only approx. 1 mile away from Cotherstone Station.    At this time the German Armies were tracking across Poland and Russia , also crews with tanks on railflats .   I would say this sidings was used for exactly the same training purpose.    To unload they would just all drive down the Warflats to a DIY ramp made of sleepers , or slew 90 degree and use a similar ramp at side of track whilst shunted.

I would like to check the Fitzhugh Library photographs, mention of a tank on cobblestones in Horsemarket  - so in area opp,  Golden Lion / Kings Head to Buttermarket, pic. deposited by a person - seems his sole item deposited.  Tank probably for PR on Whit.  Meet Weekend.   Could be a WW1 tank ,  Consett got theirs & it was in a park near Blackhill - I think it went in the pot during WW2 , if you search internet you can find pics.

Well i have no reason to doubt the accounts of those who were there at the time. They are all online on the websites I have mentioned for anyone to read and make their own conclusions. I cant post links as i am currently away from home and my desktop where I researched this. I'm actually working at the DNV site within RAF Spadeadam ranges and am surrounded by redundant Soviet armour awaiting a similar fate as our tank In Teesdale!

thanks again

Dave

The RAF  photograph  ,  bit like looking for rockets at Peenemmunde.   Look at the field across road from Stainton Camp entrance , the concrete turning circles.  The field is surrounded bu small circles , some with a double row adj. the concrete turning areas.  Seems excessive but I think it was another tank training area and the circles were  45 gal. oil drums filled with concrete.   I think there is some still around , IIRC painted red/white bands , some were used for preventing public entering (other than central  south positioned one used for public lay-by .   Seems excessive but what did they do in that field - play tank dodgems   ?

The Broomielaw sidings  ?      Why the ramp to rear of the waiting room  ?      Hardly a shunt hump ,  may have been just loco park   ,   not aware of any water crane but don't rule it out.    There is no doubt that the signal box & equipment was extensive.   The best I can find so far  is the technical description of the frame inside the box  , far more than required for the section of double line to B.C.    Without doubt BC Goods yard was used for tanks   Wiki states so   LoL   because a tank damaged a crane,  however this would be early WW2.    Broomielaw was used by WD  , not just for troops.    I am thinking a siding(s)  continued beyond the ramp - it will be difficult to trace now.   They would not have used sleepers boiled in creosote on proper ballast ,  they would have used the method the Russians did over thousands of miles of Steppe  WW2  -  redwood  (untreated)  at best sleepers laid direct on topsoil.    I have a good range of O.S. maps  however none for required time-line  & in any case if there was a re-issue they would not have even shown the camps or any WD owned sidings.  Possibly the railway sidings in-front and east of the signal-box was sufficient   ?      However the ramp is very sus.

http://teesdalemercury.blogspot.com/2017/11/from-dunkirk-to-el-alamein-my.html

Tank driver training  B.C.  to Copley  road  (Coal Road to Lead Mill).