ajmac

Why would the shell case ejection hatch have been very professionally welded closed? Was this a late 75mm production step, or a post war trend...:???

Some useless info that is in fact a little sad, as it is the only hint in the City, of the link to the invention and manufacture of the original 'tanks' during the 1st World War. Lincoln has the following streets all off the main trunk road named after the designer of the tank: Sir William Tritton (who worked for Fosters) Tritton Road. (passes the site of the Fosters Factory - now a retail park:( Valentine Rd. Centaur Rd. Crusader Rd. Matilda Rd. Chieftain Way. One wall remains of the Fosters factory, just behind the StarBucks, no sign, nothing at all! Can you imagine the situation if the Tank had been invented in the US, I doubt there would just be a few street names. We do have a tank though, a Female MkII (I think), in the City Museum.

This sounds like fantasy to me but I'll ask anyway: Chatting to a work colleague today we got talking about his time at agricultural collage in the 80's, where one of his friends spoke of seeing a dozen ‘unloved’ wartime German halftracks (one would presume 251s) in a warehouse on Dartmoor. No more info ATM, but does it ring any bells?

Adrian, As you are working on the Wheatcroft Firefly turret ATM do you know if they have the corrisponding hull? Or are they going to transform a standard M4 / M4A4 hull... in due time. If you are not at liberty to say; no problem. Which brings the question: I can understand secrecy in the vintage sports car racing circuit (because they cheat, and don't want to be found out - that IS a fact by the way), but in HMVs why:??? it's not as if you can get one over on a fellow owner... I only ask as some posters make the point along the following lines: 'saw xyz's project the other day, but can't say anymore'.

Wow I've never seen so many 17 pdr M10s in one place! Were these photos taken a number of years ago? What is the plan with the other M10s shown in the photos.... any ideas.... The web site is very nicely set out, seems most of the M10s already have new homes. Adrian.... What sparked off the UK range clearances of WW2 armour in the 90's?

I was surprised how UK scrapmen shy away from taking on armour, a number of my Dads friends are in the scrap trade and have been since the 70's. We chatted about the economics of it a couple of years ago.... although the going rate for a tonne of steel may be 'x' the scrap dealer has to take into account that to turn the armour into a saleable commodity he has got to use manpower and gas to chop it into manageable pieces. (i.e. for loading into the foundry furnace) It normally turns out that it isn't worth the time and effort. Over the last few months the scrap price for nearly all metals has collapsed possible reducing the pressure on 'at risk' armour. Obviously in contries with low manhour costs you can still make money even after it has been chopped into usefull sizes. e.g. Pakistan / India / China.

There is always a way...just need to keep your ear to the ground and be in the right place at the right time. The easy option is to wish for loads of money and just buy one:-D

Must point out that this book is a real eye opened as far as Cromwells are concerned. Written from the Rolls-Royce perspective about all the mods they did to create the Meteor and the mods they did on the tank as a whole. Originally I thought they just did the engine, not so, they made more of a contribution to the tank than you would believe! 'The Rolls-Royce Meteor' - Cromwell and other applications. Rolls-Royce Heritage Trust - Histotical Series No 35

Yes that was at Welland last year, I went to see traction engines :-) There maybe a few more photos, but they are with my Dad as I borrowed his camera for the day! (he e-mailed me that photo) I'll have a look next time I visit home, IIRC there wasn't much space to get perspective, parked right in front of the T was an M36 taking the lime light.

Just reading what I wrote it looks like I was disagreeing with Adrian over transmission housings, I wasn't at all! I wanted to point out that parts get changed and the vehicles wouldn't necessarily be running in the same condition that they arrived in. This is particularly apparent with tracks and road wheels, there are numerous photos detailing Shermans with a hotchpotch of different road wheel styles. There are no facts in industry, just varying hues of grey:-(

A good point which Adrian touched on... Although a specific mark of Sherman (or any piece of equipment for that matter) may have left the US with xyz installed doesn't mean that parts from other Sherman variants were not fitted later (if they were interchangeable), this stands for bogies, road wheels, drive sprockets, transmission housings, engines (you know to what extent I mean) and tracks! When they suffered a failure in the field anything that was available was installed. All we can do is follow photographic evidence, following official requirement specs etc can be misleading. That's why the American phrase that you see in adverts doesn't bother me '...original....all matching numbers....':-\ My copy of Mark Haywards 'Firefly' book is on its way, should be intresting reading.

I am sure there are many more features but the most obvious one is the special track which looks 'similar' to that on Pz3 and Pz4 tanks. I read that the Canadian powers that be thought that their design gave more traction... which seems to hold water, in my eyes. Apart from that the Grizzly is a copy of the mid production US M4A1 (Sherman 2). Main visual points: Looks like a mid production M4A1 i.e. cast hull, small hatches. Unique track - three letter acronym something like CDP or CPD. 75mm Gun version only with wide mantel. Three piece transmission housing. Low bustle turret i.e. the back end with the radio is not level with the top of the turret - which also means only one turret hatch without the coupla. Wirlwind R975 Radial engine. Others add info here......:idea: Adrian - you just beat me, I hadn't done a refresh before I pressed save :-) Read your response now - 'a G in a shield', I also spotted this foundry mark on the bogies of some British Rail stock when I was travelling to Uni via Birmingham New St in the late 90's.

I know that not everyone will have seen the series but if you have.... There appeared to be at least two running Cromwells in one episode along with three or four Sherman Grizzlies, were the Cromwells original (or replica?) ones and where are they now?

M4A2 monument in France, doesn't look too bad at first? Oh... interior needs TLC.. Looks like it was hit during the war, due to the hole on the RHS just above and behind the centre bogie, the engine bulkhead also looks fractured rather than chopped about. These photos are from a French forum listed in the British Vehicles section of HMVF.

An excellent restoration so far Maurice, spot on. In the photos you posted it's noticeable from that angle how much smaller the M4s engine bay is when compared to the M4A4s in Adrians photos. I realised that the M4A4 was lengthened to accommodate the Multibank, but it's nice to see in the flesh, it's never as obvious when the engine is in place. Would it be a logical conclusion that the fuel tanks on an M4A4 are longer and thus of greater capacity as well? More range than the Whirlwind or Ford V8 equipped Shermans?

Back to the thread....:coffee: How about 200 - 300 vehicles which are NOT in Museum or Collector hands or buried / under water! Practically speaking, of the 1,000's of Shermans which must have survived the wars they have participated in, the vast majority will have had a close encounter with a Oxy-Acetylene torch - does anyone have any scrap yard photos of Shermans being cut up?

M4A2 (M4?) spares anyone? Possibly water ingress during storage:-\ These photos are from the Ukraine, caption suggests that the hull is to be pulled from the marsh later, the turret was removed first - photos in the last couple of years.

Good point about a bullet being a bullet.... However, when your country has so much modern armour, mass produced automatic weapons and you would be up against the USA / Western Europe, stocking bolt action rifles and T34s into the 21st Century seems pointless. Anyway - If we are putting on bets, I'll bet that if the former Eastern Block kept so much equipment for so many years there is bound to be a gold mine of Lend-Lease spares and equipment sitting in store....as well as the odd 75mm and 88mm German AT Gun....that would be logical, they wouldn't have stored German armour....would they:???

I would change the question a little.... How many countries still have Gunned Shermans (i.e not Engineer or recovery variants) in their strategic reserve? It never ceases to amaze what turns up, who would have thought that the Russians refurbished 1,000's of German small arms in the late 1940s and kept them packed and racked (for some Cold War emergency) until 2007 when they suddenly poured onto the Western Deact market! Makes you wonder what else is lurking in deepest Siberia, perfectly preserved and.... perfectly obsolete. Early last year I had to rummage around in an old warehouse in Gdansk (Danzig) looking for some Turbine spare parts, no one knew what was in there and their were no lights to speak of! It's a different mentality to that we are used to in Western organisations - which is good :-)

I presume converting an Argentinean Vc Firefly back to wartime spec wouldn't be difficult, simply find a long 17 pdr along with recoil assembly and a new old stock Multibank, both of those must be easy to lay ones hands on - your M4A4 was a doddle wasn't is Adrian :-) oh, should point out that was a joke.... but the conversion to wartime spec would be considerably easier than starting work on an Israeli Sherman.

In the sunshine:-D

I should have done a more detailed caption for the Pakistan photo, I understood it wasn't a Firefly, just thought it was a nice find. The point being that even today it's possible to find a reasonably complete Sherman that isn't modified beyond recognition :-)

The last photo was taken in Islamabad, Pakistan in 2004 - it's still possible guys!

Here are some photos from the net (sorry if they are yours). You will note that the Argentinean Fireflies can be seen pre and post retrofit (105mm Gun) and both M4 and M4A4 based. If you have a sharp eye you will also spot that the Firefly for sale in Holland could well be one of the retrofitted Argentinean Fireflies, note the muzzle break. Oh and the infamous GrizzlyFly too:-D

Too dangerous! More like the finances didn't add up. Generally the most dangerous countries are also the most corrupt and it is easier to bypass the 'system', I spent a good proportion of last year in Burma, the Niger Delta and Equatorial Guinea :sweat:ohh Colombia too! If all goes well I'll be off to Northern Iraq in the Autumn but that is irrelevant.... which country were these 6 Fireflies located in? Pakistan by chance?