Motleyholt

I would assume it's over 3.5t? Will it be for private use only? Would be registered as a private heavy goods if it is and would need a HGV test each year. Unless you convert to a camper then it's just a car test but I've heard that registering as a camper can be difficult these days. 

Very nice I cosidered a Martian before opting for one and a half Foden's. One from Crouch's. Best of luck, I'll be following its progress. Are you intending to restore both?

8 hours ago, Tony B said:

 Martin !! Are you implying my  Draper tin box tester is old fashioned? 🤣 Not a lot to go wrong on them though.

Lol absolutely nothing wrong with them at all, used them for years. A new electric tester gives so much more info and allows testing of all the new breeds of battery. As well as testing the charge output from the vehicle.

Besides it makes it easier for your roadside assister to flog you a battery when the screen says bad and replace. Even though a good charger will fix it with no problem.

6 hours ago, andym said:

On the filter front, I've dismantled a large number of those types with separate elements over the years, and I don't think I've ever found one with the correct combination of springs and washers in the correct order!

Andy

I think it's a British thing, just take all the parts you have mix them up, take a couple out, add some extras and bung it back together. I don't believe much has been done on my Foden since it was built due to the milage it has or rather hasn't covered. Yet it amazes me the half hearted way in which it was put together. Possibly a sign of the times in the late seventies with industrial unrest etc. It's a good design, probably quite advanced in its day with air brakes and air operated transfer box and so on. It's just not got the attention to detail that we all now expect. I have no idea what they cost new but I'm sure it wasn't cheap.

Anyway after some gardening and diy I took it for a drive around the farm now it's dried up on the ground. Got to know the gearbox a little better and found its still a bit sticky on the range change. I'll change the oil and see if it helps. It definately improved as it warmed up. Apologies for the un edited footage and my joy at a smooth gear change.

Cycling is key with modern batteries to stop sulphation.  The ctek's and equivalent chargers will discharge to a certain level and recharge periodically. But with the smaller maintenance chargers you want to start with a good charged battery and then it will last for years. Most of our older vehicles will have no drain when standing and also more than likely have an isolator. I tested a customers battery that had been untouched for two years, but stored clean and dry, and it was perfectly servicable just needed a charge. For the more modern vehicles if not isolated, grab a multi meter, set it to the biggest amp range and disconnect one of the cables. Check your current draw with everything off and doors closed as it would be left normally. The drain should be zero or minimal. Now select a maintenance charger that is more than the drain current. You can get away with a very small charger as long as it is greater than the drain. I fit solar panels to horse boxes and if the right one is used they can be very cost effective too. But they don't cycle the batteries. 

As for jump starting you can get away with a cheap boost pack if there are no electronics even if the batteries are dead. But, as mentioned,  if in doubt charge the batteries first, it's the safest way on a modern vehicle, unless you have a sophisticated boost pack. A modern vehicle should restart after ten minutes after being jump started, but old alternators or dynamos can take a good long drive to get the battery back up. 

Any local garage should be able to give a battery a health check once you have charged it. Or you can buy a tester now that uses your mobile phone to operate and display the results. I can't remember the last time I saw an old fashioned battery drop tester with a dial gauge on.

Anyhow that's my opinions aired and I should go get on with something useful in the garden or maybe I'll pop to the Foden.......

Some of the modern brake grease is rubber friendly as used in modern calliper sliders and assemblies, would recommend checking the label or looking up the specs on the Internet.  You should find each types potential uses and limitations. 

The most common mistake I see is copper grease used with rubber components, which very quickly turns rubber to mush.

22 hours ago, pc1959 said:

Screwfix sell 13mm wide x 10mm foam tape Like This

Otherwise I have used this company and found them pretty good: Rubber and Sponge, They do a wide range and were cheapest when I last looked

I second what Marvin says about using copper as a backing.

Thanks you, I'll look them up tonight whilst I'm ordering some paint.

What are people's views on paints? Go with a more old fashioned or modern two pack? They appeared to have been rather stingy with the paint at the factory, there is next to no paint behind the front cab corners, no signs of primer either. The heater boxes were hammerited then sprayed over DBG once assembled to the cab. I would like to give the parts a decent life expectancy after I've rebuilt them. So any advice would be greatly appreciated.

On 4/3/2021 at 5:55 AM, marvinthemartian said:

I use copper as a backing for welding small holes, as the weld doesn't stick, and you get a fairly flush finish that won't need much flatting. 

Thanks I will try that on the next box. I should have got the little mig out of the van but I was being lazy and using the big mig in the workshop. It's a bit heavy handed for thin sheet but in pulse mode it can just about do it.

Rebuilt the main body of the first heater box today, firstly scraped and peeled off the foam seals and then blasted it clean.

The fragile bits were clearly revealed.

The spot welds were drilled out and the rotten bits separated. 

The Base section is straight foward, just a rectangle of 1mm steel sheet with 3 bends. So some sheet was marked out.

Cut.

And folded. 

It was a bit slow as I was trying to hold the phone steady and operate one handed.

Test fitted.

Next was the small rusted section on the top.

I decided to repair this part by just replacing the edge. Cut off the edge with the angle grinder, cut a strip of steel, folded it and attached with plug welds.

Next filled some of the pin holes on the side of the casing. Simple trick is to cut a small piece of sheet and lay it behind the holes. Then plug weld the holes, the sheet will avoid making big holes in thin steel. Then simply grind off the backing metal off.

Then straighten all the edges, punch holes and weld it all back together.

A bit more prep then ready for priming, high build priming, to hide some of the pitting and top coating. 

Blast and paint all the other parts. Then do it all again for the second heater.

I need to source some adhesive backed foam to make all the seals too.

A satisfying afternoon.

This week I've been giving the truck a bit of a service. Might cut down the smoke levels a bit!

It was a cold day just after it arrived.

Simple job, warm up the engine. Cut the lock wire on the sump plug and drain the oil, be ready with a big container as you will be catching 30 litres of oil. Then whilst the sump is draining undo the filter bolts and catch another couple of litres of oil.

At least I know it's been serviced at least once in its 40 years as it was misassembled. Also had a bonus washer and seal for good measure! Clean all the parts.

Check the engine service book for the correct order.

Fill with oil and refit, using the new sealing washers. Refit the sump plug and re-wire. Fill up with nice fresh oil.

Next remove the fuel sediment bowl on the chassis for a good clean. This definately hasn't been off, completely sealed with paint.

j

Not a pretty sight inside. Plenty of water and built up corrosion and sludge. 30 minutes of cleaning and paint removal and now you can see through the glass.

New seals from a standard CAV filter fitted and it's all back together. Unfortunately I couldn't free the plastic drain screw. I'll let it soak in the now clean fuel and see if I can get hold of one so I can replace it if it snaps.

The filter proper is on the side of the engine and a modern screw on type.

Apart from being mounted upside down to maximise the mess it's a five minute job to fit. Thoroughly prime the system with the lift pump as the last thing you need to be doing is bleeding the pump and injectors. Start it up and check for oil and fuel leaks. Another job done.

Apart from that I've started the sand blasting of the heater box in the sand blast cabinet. One of the best tools to have for rust and paint removal. Its the first proper restoration job.

A few small holes but nothing too serious on the side panel. Will work through the rest of the parts this week. Awaiting a paint delivery so it can be made good for another 40 years.

That's all for this installment. 

13 hours ago, andym said:

Probably worth getting the heater matrix checked over by a radiator firm while you've got it in bits?

Andy

The matrix is the best bit, no signs of damage, corrosion or leaking. And it will get a thorough clean inside and then a while hooked up to a pressure tester. The truck hasn't covered many miles so most of its issues are from lack of use and age. Sheet metal work will undoubtedly consume the lions share of the time. I haven't poked the cab too much yet as I would like to get her road legal. And whilst the underseal is hiding inevitable weak bits I will get it through the ministry test to get it registered. Although one of the DVSA testers thinks I'll need to book an IVA to get it on the system so it can be tested. Will speak to them this week to get the current official prcedure.

But first I'll need to finish the prep work to be test ready. The hoses and pipes all went back on today.

The thermostat housing had to come off to replace the hose to the heads. Just four bolts to undo, two of which had the worst fitting washers. A size too big for the bolts. The thermostats were nice and grubby.

Gave them a clean up, made a new gasket and the found the hose to be replaced is the only one that's not two inch. A rummage in the bits box found a piece that will do the job until a new bit arrives. As it hasn't got a permanant home it's got to stay mobile. The heater circuit has been bypassed so I can get both the heater boxes restored. And a new breather pipe fitted, the nice stainless braided one. Not quite OE but until I find an equivalent to the original it will work nicely. 

Filled it up with some fresh coolant and had a little fun going backwards and foward,  even got up to third gear!

Apologies for the lack of pics but I forgot to charge my phone. 

More progress has been made if you can call taking a fuctioning truck and reducing it to a pile of parts progress!

Some hoses have been cut and the pipes cleaned ready to be refitted.

Some shiny new bits arrived

The cable for the headlights even has the right size fitting but the conduit is slightly smaller diameter than the original. But it looks correct and you would have to look close to notice.

Have also removed the drivers side heater box for repair. Two control cables, two motor wires and three hoses need to be disconnected first. This was made easier by someone in the past snapping the hoses.

After that there are four m6 bolts going through into the foot well.  Theses are behind the trim/insulation inside which is glued to the bulkhead. Vents were removed and it was carefully peeled off.

The bolts all came undone which was a surprise.

Doesn't look too bad until you turn it over......

Stripped it down this evening. I find that a few sharp taps with a small hammer on the screws along with a combination of a hack saw and a pick to clean out the screw slots is enough to get them out. A couple of pork pie screws needed mole grips to crack them free. And of course lots of penetrating oil. This leaves you with another pile of bits.

The next step will be to sand blast it all clean and see what's left.

To be continued....

Got a few hours on the truck today in between showers. Wrestled some more coolant pipes off to replace the connecting hoses.

That's after cleaning the ends....this was before...

Some of the hoses weren't too bad but others had suffered 

Stripped the seized drain tap whilst I had it on the bench.

Took some gentle heating, penetrative oil and a spanner on the shaft with some gentle wiggling it broke free and came apart. The spring that maintains pressure on the seal had corroded and stopped everything form moving.

I thought I had some of the flat spring type washers but I couldn't find one. So I have fitted two turns of a standard spring until I remember where they are. A spot of rubber grease and put it all back together. A small victory but satisfying none the less.

Also found out why the heater hoses were made of so many parts, the heater pipes are slightly larger diameter so the short hose is an adapter. They must have uprated the heaters as my donor cab has smaller pipes and no adapter hoses. So I've ordered some adapter hoses and will fit it back as it was.

Started to free off the heater box bolts, have been soaking them in oil every night for the last week. Have got a couple off but some are spinning the studs. Will need to see if some are nuts and bolts that are somewhere behind the trim in the cab foot wells. 

Anyone know which are the correct cab markers? On my two cabs I don't have two lenses the same.

I think the second pic is original as the N/S is the one that normally gets ripped off in trees and hedges.

That's all folks for this week.

On 3/13/2021 at 10:45 AM, andym said:

That reminds me that at one stage I bought some wiring looms (possibly for a Saracen) from Makano Surplus who unfortunately don't seem to still be in business.  That means I'm pretty well OK for the smaller diameter conduit, but the Abbot also uses a larger diameter and I haven't been able to find a source for those.  This isn't very clear and the vehicle is two hundred miles away, but might help explain.

Andy

 

 

I've got two of these Andy, 2 male 1 female?

The female has been chewed up and has popped off but I think I can fit one of the spare good ones from the cables and swage the end back over.

19 hours ago, ltwtbarmy said:

Would any of the following work, in conjunction with cloth covered insulating tape? I’ve had a look at xmod and they seem to be out of stock of the correct conduit.

https://www.autosparks.co.uk/electrical-components/conduit

I know that there is some insulating tape which closely matches the appearance of the original covering, being matt in appearance and can be used to disguise.

Also found this - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Cable-Flexible-Conduit-Sleeving-Split-Unsplit-Loom-Harness-Various-Sizes-/263163209329

or this - https://www.vintagecarparts.co.uk/parts_index/conduit

Thank you for the links I had a thorough search of xmod's site and found this

It's for a drops but looks identical, is plenty long enough and wasn't a million pounds like some of the items. On closer inspection it's looks more like string around the outside. Was just hidden under paint. I'll probably need to cut it up and swap the old fittings over. If can extract them from some of the old cables as the later fittings look to be different in design. Will let you know when it arrives.

Also ordered a battery cover and gear lever gaiter whilst I was there....just when I thought I wasn't going to spend much 😂

9 hours ago, andym said:

My personal preference is never to re-use old nuts and bolts unless they are some special entity.  I'd replace them with new ones of the type shown in the ISPL.

On the conduit front, xmod had some a while back, but I've no idea if they still have any.  I'm trying to find a source of the fittings they connect to for my Abbot, such as the T-pieces on the headlamps.

Andy

Hi Andy, I have quite a few fittings on my donor cab, unfortunately the harness I need has been cut. If there are any fittings of use you are welcome to them. Send a pic of anything you need and I'll have a look through the spares. I keep all the plugs anyway as they are usually the hardest bits to find.

It's been a quiet week on the Foden front but have continued the coolant hose replacement. To access the heater hoses the front cab corners need to be removed.

The variety of fasteners used is quite astounding, several types of self taper.

Metric bolts one side, imperial the other. Some have nylocs and some spring washers and plain nuts.

It's as if they just had a big box of random nuts and bolts and lucky dip the ones to use. The question is do I put random bolts back in or appease my organised side and put matching bolts in?!

The hoses run from the heater tap, bottom right, to the left of the heater box,top left. For some strange reason all the hoses have a straight connector to a 6" straight hose to connect to the heater matrix. I have yet to work out why it's not just one length of straight hose.

So the new hose is just two piece until I discover the reason.

The heater boxes are just starting to rot through so whilst I have access to them I'll take them out, weld in some new metal and paint them. Have a couple of sheared bolts in captive nuts on the door pillar to deal with too. Unfortunately I'll need to take the door off to get a drill to them. Life is never simple.

Found a bodged repair to the wiring too. I'm pretty certain scotch locks weren't approved by the MOD! Anyone know where I can find the conduit for the wiring? It appears to be a wire and cloth construction.

The bodged part is of a different type, is rotten and going in the bin.

That's all for the moment.

Got a quick job out of the way, removed and straightened the headlight guard.

With a combination of the press and a big hammer it was straightened

And got it to here

And with a bit more tweaking in the vice it's almost as good as new

Just needs stripping in the sand blasting cabinet, a spot of weld where the metal has cracked at one of the bolt holes and a coat of paint.

One more job ticked off the list.

Have made some progress with sorting out the relentless warning buzzer in the cab, No. 4 air warning would not go out even though the gauge was right up and the cab lock warning was on constantly. I bridged each of the pressure switches in turn with a length of wire until I located No. 4 and removed the pressure switch.

They are good old fashioned things that, unlike modern equivalents, can be dismantled and serviced. I took one of my donor spares apart first just to see what was what. Very simple inside, a rubber seal/piston pushes against a spring to break the circuit. The pressure at which it breaks is set with shims behind the spring. The shims and spring form part of the circuit and get corroded as the switches are not water proof.

So after cleaning everything it was reassembled with a light coating of rubber grease to prevent corrosion. Tested with a multi meter to make sure there was continuity before refitting.

Next was the cab switch

It lives just behind and below the air filter and so collects all the muck from the road. Which results in this.

I'm always the optomist when it comes to making things work again but this switch was only going to the scrap bin.

Luckily the manufacturer's name was still present and a quick auction site search found some new old stock at sensible prices. The company still exists and I suspect that they can be purchased brand new so must be a good design to be unchanged over 40 years later.

Just needs some green paint. Anyone have recommendations for paints? Primers and top coats?

Lastly for this installment I've started swapping the coolant hoses. Started with the split oil cooler hose.

The small hose was removed to drain the coolant as all the taps are seized. Will get them all working whilst it's drained. The hose above left of that is the leaky one. It gets flexed as the radiator is tipped foward.

There is a flexible hose but it still puts a stain on the one that is leaking

The old and a good used hose. Purists look away now.... I've got some new silicone based hose which is a lot more flexible than the rubber which I'm going to use to avoid the same problem reoccurring. There are only two hose sizes used 2" 50mm and 5/8" 16mm. I have a length of 50mm, a roll of 16mm and some 16mm 90° bends. This should replace almost all the hoses. The top and bottom radiator hoses are a flexible type and appear to be silicone based so will hopefully be able to leave these alone. Will pressure test them once the other hoses are fitted.

On 2/25/2021 at 7:44 AM, Citroman said:

For your screen washer pump it looks a bit like the foot pumps used in caravans. Instead of a foot compressed air is used.

Yes it's really simple when you realise how it works. It's beautifully made brass or bronze, I'm not sure if I should paint it or get the brasso out.

On 2/25/2021 at 4:11 AM, ltwtbarmy said:

I love the “artillAry” on the military data plate. Wonder what happened there.

Just checked my pics of another and it's the same typo. Obviously didn't have a proof reader at Foden!

I suspect they were wired and piped identically so they could be a tractor or limber on the production line.

I don't think they used the same name twice! The handbook, chassis plate and body plate all use different wording. Should have just given it a simple name

Also they uprated the front axle from the commercial motor article which stated an 8t front axle where all those I've seen have had 10t axles. Or the commercial motor article got it wrong.

Does anyone know how many still survive in the UK in original spec? tractors and limbers. They seem to have been quite short lived, in service, compered to the recovery variant. Mine only served from 80 to 93 and only covered 4000 miles.

Thanks for the info, an interesting read. Always thought it was a shame they never gave them a proper name. Especially after the matador's, militant's and martian's. Makes you wonder what they might have been called?

Was talking to a DVSA inspector today, after an MOT, and I'll need to go to an old fashioned test station for an IVA. This will get it onto the DVSA system and then I can book a regular HGV MOT so it can be registered and taxed. Will confirm this once I have called them.

It was a good call Richard and definitely saved some time. Half the battle is working out how it should work before you can understand how to fix it. I've spent a fair bit of time on a customers Bedford MW and the much newer Pinzgauer. It's nice to have something of my own to work on. 

I've also noticed there are some extra air pipes fitted which are not connected but tied up along the chassis. I think they are for the winch pto and brake. I don't know if all the Foden fh70 limber's had these fitted or if mine was nearly a gun tractor? I don't remember seeing spare pipes on the last one I looked at and it was only one prior in chassis number.

Also does anyone have any history for these Foden's?  There is remarkably little on the Internet.  Would be nice to know when they were designed, how many were made etc. 

Committed to resolving the diaphragm issue in the gearbox today which I have been putting off for a few weeks. Drained the oil and got back underneath, spanner in hand, for the tedious job of undoing bolts a fraction of a turn at a time through the letterbox.

Getting quite swift at it the second time. This time I removed all the bits behind the diaphragm to see what was what.

Then realised it's the clutch brake. Had been wondering what the diaphragm was for! Cleaned everything again, found nothing amiss, but realised if this is the clutch brake why does it have a prmanant air supply?

So went in search of the valve that controls it and found it.

It's a little hard to see as it's behind the clutch air cylinder, I had already got it on my list to overhaul as it leaked air. Someone previously had the same idea but instead of repairing it they had just plugged the exhaust port with a bolt. Net result was that the diaphragm was pressurised when you pressed the clutch but on release the pressure couldn't escape. So gearbox turning, clutch brake on trying it's best to stop it turning until everything got hot, smoke came out and the diaphragm melted.

So two more diaphragms made, refit everything, service the valve and remove the bolt.

Give it a test and all now works perfectly. Very happy I didn't need to drop the gearbox.

Whilst refilling the gearbox I took the opportunity to modify the dipstick by adding an O ring. 

The colchester triumph is a little large but it did the job.

Should stop water getting in.

Also tested the crane out to rearrange the spare parts.

Ben hijacked the controls but that allowed me to take a few pics and the video.

Next job is to replace the crispy coolant hoses.