Minesweeper

He also had a fully restored peerless he once entered in the London to Brighton many years ago, we went up to see it once, would be interesting to know what it sells for......

Lot 1235 in the catalogue!

Sorry,al! Tim is in France and Steve and I are in Norfolk! Normal service wil be resumed as soon as possible!

Tony

All very exciting, Mike! A really great project!

Tony

Really great - a very fine and fitting job.

Tony

Masses of support from everybody here - not a pleasant time for you but persevere.

Tony

Tony,

Do you transport the Dennis with the roof section over the driver up?

I would have thought the greater wind and air pressure at speed could cause damage to the canvas.

Thanks

Doug

We have always carried the Dennis with its roof up - we thought about "wind pressure" on it but were not too concerned about it. But the Transporter Driver was - I don't know how fast he intended to go - but he threw two ropes across the Cab Roof section and tied them down as an extra bit of bracing - there was no trouble.

I guess better be sure than sorry!

Tony

Just got in and we have been on the go since 4:45 this morning.

It has been a very good day and the Dennis arrived at Brighton at about 12:40. We stopped to remedy fuel starvation issues. Luckily it did not take long to figure out what was wrong. The petrol tap had partially closed due to vibration.

All of the WW1 WD vehicles which started completed. Sadly the Maudslay and one of the AEC's had to withdraw before the start which was a great shame.

I will post some photos tomorrow.

Tim

We are loaded up and on our way.

See you there.

Line them up Joe!

Well tomorrow's the day, does anyone know how many WW1 era treats we expect to see on the run and what?

Those departing early beware it was -2 degrees here in Mid Sussex last night , long Johns might be needed!!

We are loading the Dennis this morning so that it will be at Crystal Palace for the Start at 7 a.m. tomorrow. The latest information that we have is that there are 17 vehicles with solid tyres in the Special Class of the WW1 era - but not all of them will be in military livery. Included are two newly restored AEC Y Types in military livery making their debut.

Tony

Your new axle out from the storage pile has a metal shield plate about the end of stub axle to deflect mud etc and give some protection to the bronze bush. Did the original axle have one of these deflection plates?

I've noticed from my own collection some axles have this metal plate, while other axles do not have them. Again a change in design over time.

Were there any other stamped numbers or letters about the king pin area that may help in placing these axles into a time frame of manufacture?

Doug

No - the first axle did not have such shields.

I have not been able to read any numbers on the new axle - yet -it needs a thorough cleaning to be able to get in there!

On the first axle, the number 186 is stamped on one side in the King Pin area - and on the other one it is stamped F2 although that could be KF2 or even XF2 and underneath that is "Leeds 6194"

Tony

We remembered today that we had another very poorly Thorny front axle tucked away in the “Stores Department” and we decided to dig it out to see if the stub axles and bearing surfaces were any better than the ones that we have just released.

The pictures will show you that the ends do look promising with clean shiny bearing surfaces and it would seem worthwhile to push the King Pins out to have a good look at them.

You will also notice that the main beam is very corroded and wasted away – and beyond redemption.

With the London to Brighton Run getting ever closer, we have started preparatory work for it on the Dennis. The lorry mainly wants a good clean – especially the aluminium which has oxidised over the winter months whilst the lorry has been away in store on a farm..

Another thing which has been irritating us - as everything was done in haste three years ago for the then coming Brighton Run – was the ropes. We used Sisal rope which was quite wrong where it should have been Hemp rope which was the stuff used during that early period – so we needed to replace it with the proper stuff.

Our friend Mark D. – a former submariner has advised us about this and called to take a hand in replacing the ropes where he has now properly spliced the ends for us.

The rope can be a little “hairy” and Mark used a small propane torch to burn off the hairy bits. The final result – very pleasing!

The front wheels and front axle came back from the Sand Blaster yesterday – the wheels were heavily rusted and it could not have been easy for them to get inside the front plate to get all of the rust out. However, they did a good job!

We have agreed now that we will have the hubs skimmed/bored out to get rid of the wear and to bring the bores back to a smooth and true finish again. But to make life easier for the machinist who will do this for us, we wanted to clean them up first of all. They will be primed before they leave us to keep any rust at bay.

As with the sand blasting, it is not easy to get inside the front plate to paint it – but Bonda Primer, our favourite primer also produce their primer in aerosols, and this seemed to be the answer to get it inside that front plate. In fact, it worked admirably and that then just left us to paint the outside front at the rear plates with a paint brush in the usual way.

Another good day of progress – at least moving forward in the right direction!

We have had a look at the two stub axles released from the main body of the front axle and find that not surprisingly, they are bushed! The top bush is a little unusual – at least unusual to us as it incorporates the lower half of a thrust bearing. The top part of the bearing was taken off much earlier and the very rusty balls came with it. We firstly assumed that the lower part of a standard thrust bearing was stuck or corroded to the top of the stub axle but find now that it is one part of the actual bush. It is unfit to be used again.

So both bushes have now been pushed out. We have never seen thrust bearings made up in this form and if they are no longer available then we shall have to think out and plan the way ahead!

Perhaps Chris G would like to come in here with his professional knowledge of bearings and comment on them – and perhaps say that (hopefully) that type are still available.

With the King Pins looking a bit sad, we are considering putting them through a Rotary Grinder to reduce the diameter by a just a few thous’ and then making new bushes for the stub axles slightly smaller accordingly to fit the reduced size.

We took the front axle down to our local garage today so that we could make use of their Hydraulic Press. We wanted to get the front axle stripped down as really the next step in getting the front end of the lorry together is to hang the axle on to the springs.

The Press was required to take the King Pins out – everything was so rusty and corroded and we anticipated great trouble in getting them to move – but we had been dosing them with Plus Gas over a period and much to our surprise – and also great pleasure, very little effort was needed to get them moving! Again Plus Gas has made life easier!

It seems that every time that we do something fresh on the lorry, we meet with a surprise or two – and again this was no exception. We knew that one of the King Pins was revolving in its housing when it should have been fixed with a pin going half way through its supporting fork and half way through the King Pin so we expected to see wear at that point.

The surprise was that there were two “channels” in the King Pins – one above the other – where the securing pin was meant to hold it. The King Pin appears to be of a standard Thorny J pattern and the only reason we can think of for the second groove is that the King Pin had been fitted in another axle before – the grooves had not lined up in the second .fitting so a fresh one had been cut in each of the two pins to suit their second use.

No firm decision has been made but it rather looks as if we shall have to make new King Pins.

Hi, l have just joined the forum l built and own the half size model of Mc Laren Boadicea. l wondered what rallies Andy with the 3" WD would be going to - it would be nice to met another fellow Mc Laren builder.

 

I think that you know Andy C already - I understand that you transported his castings to him some time ago when he was building it! He is not a member of this forum but he will be at The Abbey Hill Rally coming up! If you want to contact him, then send me a PM and I will give you his Email address!

 

Tony

Vulcanising new rubber onto a tyre band involves considerable heat and that may have been responsible for expansion of the old. rim

The new Dennis Tyres on the old bands were not of rubber but of polyurethane - I really do not know how they do that but I guess heat is involved with that as well?

Tony

I think that you can be as technical as you would like to be in trying to work out a precise interference fit - I am no Mathematician or professional engineer - but I think that there are certain guidelines that we have learned from the more experienced in this particular field. I wonder if a precise properly calculated interference fit would actually work where you are mainly not dealing with clean, regular and smooth surfaces.

Rust seems to be the answer in keeping a tyre tight on a wheel. This was the mistake that we made when fitting the Dennis rear wheels. Those wheels were sand blasted after the old tyres were taken off and the original tyre bands to be used again for the new tyres, were also sand blasted. So when the new tyres on the old bands were offered up to the wheels, they just dropped loosely down on the wheels and could be rotated by hand on the wheels. So all the original interference fit had been destroyed in the sand blasting of the two mating surfaces.

To keep the tyres tight on the wheels, we had to insert a steel shim between the two all the way around - but that was found to be insufficient on its own so a wet canvas was also used to fill the final space. Wet so that it would cause the wheels and tyre bands to rust together as quickly as possible. Those tyres have not moved on the wheels.

Quite by co-incidence, I was speaking to our friend Barry W on the telephone this morning about another matter and I mentioned this "Old Chestnut" to him which had cropped up again. He told me that only very recently, another friend had come to him to make use of his tyre press. His wheels were first sand blasted with the old tyres left on to protect the rim from the sand blasting- the old tyres were then pressed off and brand new old stock tyres were pressed on and they went on as a perfect fit.

So although we like cleanliness, sand blast wheel rims and tyres at your peril!

Tony

Good stuff. I take it you will save that King Pin by welding it up and machining back down? I know you could make one but repairing the original would seem to be the thing to do?

We need to have a look at it - so will make the decision when we have taken it out!

Tony

Confirmation received this morning that the Dennis has been accepted for the HCVS London to Brighton Run on Sunday 4th May. All very pleasing and we will look forward to joining up with other WW1 vehicles on the day!

The Dennis has been away all winter in storage away from "base" and we look forward to bringing it home this coming Saturday.

Tony

That reminds me of school when our Teachers used to say - "Make sure you read the question before you answer!"

Tony

You should be able to find the both the engine and chassis numbers stamped in together on top of the front left chassis rail - left as you look towards the front - right at the front just where the rail bends down! There should also be a brass plate measuring 4" x 2" on top of the engine crank case as well - marked John I Thornycroft with the engine number stamped in.

Make sure your friend takes a wire brush with him to get under any rust!

Tony

Look at Posting No. 1078 on page 108 of the Thorny Restoration thread to help you locate the numbers!

There are a lot more knowledgeable people on this Forum than me - and I am surprised that they have not joined in yet! Your photos are not too special to help and it would be good if you could put up some more - with closer detail!

But it appears to me that the end of the chassis has been sawn off - about two feet of it and that a winch has been put on one side, perhaps to drive off the gearbox? Hence that funny arrangement of poles and levers on the side - or is that the remains of a cab?

The war-time Thornys had a high radiator with the starting handle situated underneath it. With the later (Civilian?) ones, the radiator was of a different type and situated much lower with the starting handle going through the bottom of the radiator - like this one.

It would be nice to see a picture of the motor - so that it can be confirmed that it is an original Thornycroft M4. Is there a brass number plate on the motor, giving its number?

All very interesting - Forum members enjoy puzzles like this one!

Tony